Patrick Brown

Imagination - There's a Reason For it!

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In this modern world of rational and logical thinking imagination is often sidelined and dismissed as a childish pastime. I would suggest that imagination is at least as important as the rational and the logical minds. Why? Well in a world which often seems as much a prison as a home we need an escape we need to free ourselves from the entanglements of the undeniable and find a world of infinite possibilities. Perhaps inspiration is an aspect of imagination and how many great advances are said to be inspired by an extrapolation of that which has gone before? 

 

So we often feel imprisoned, not only by the world and our circumstances but also, by our minds and thoughts. We have the old saying of "doing time in the eternal mind" which sounds pretty depressing but only if you neglect imagination! So I say play with your mind and discover your greater self and relish in the dance that is you, now, and always you. Just imagine what you can be if you loosen the limitations imposed by your rational and logical minds?

 

As the tune says the sky is the limit:

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

In this modern world of rational and logical thinking imagination is often sidelined and dismissed as a childish pastime. I would suggest that imagination is at least as important as the rational and the logical minds. Why? Well in a world which often seems as much a prison as a home we need an escape we need to free ourselves from the entanglements of the undeniable and find a world of infinite possibilities. Perhaps inspiration is an aspect of imagination and how many great advances are said to be inspired by an extrapolation of that which has gone before? 

 

Really? How much rational and logical thinking is found in the world today? Hardly any! You will probably have to go to a research institute or university to find it. What is the probability that a random gathering of people will start reasoning in a rationally and logically sound way? Close to zero! More likely than not one will be told to shut up.  

 

18 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

Just imagine what you can be if you loosen the limitations imposed by your rational and logical minds?

 

You don't have to imagine that, because it's our current reality. See Trump, the social media, fake news, all kinds of bizarre conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, postmodernism, etc. 

 

No - the problem is not too much but too little rational and logical thinking.

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25 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

rational and logical thinking.

I know that I am going to regret asking this, but what is "rational and logical thinking"?  

got lots of modern takes on this.  One said, "rational is the ability to think rationally"  or another that says,  that "rational thinking is the ability to create good quality thoughts"  what???   And of course the best for last.... "Scientific explanations are based on evidence and subject to change when new facts come to ..."  Facts?  like written in stone? unmovable? unchangeable?  

Well, hope that works out for folks.

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Posted (edited)

@ Zen Pig

 

The subject of "rational and logical thinking" would deserve a separate topic for serious discussion. I propose the following: let the topic starter explain what "rational and logical thinking" is supposed to be? Maybe his answer will be so good that no further discussion is necessary. But if not, you can still decide if you like to discuss "rational and logical thinking" or not. That might indeed not be a good idea, as it will involve all kinds of hard problems from the philosophy of science. But even if we could agree on what is at stake than there would still be several positions one could reasonably take and defend. In all likelihood only a few Bums would still be reading the topic at the point where we would be ready to draw some conclusions.

 

Edited by wandelaar
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Posted (edited)

Perhaps we should consider that most people consider themselves as 'rational and logical' and live accordingly. People tell me you have to work to live and that's the right, the rational and logical, thing to do. People tell me, that are normally busy working most of the time, that we should listen to the 'rationale and logic' of our leaders and do as they suggest. Of course doing anything without questioning can lead to confusion, manipulation and lead to ignorance of the truth, but what is the truth? Don't we all have our own truth yet give it up cheaply for beads and shiny trinkets? 

 

Rationale and logic have a place and serve a purpose but ultimately can blind one to the truth if given too much attention. Of course too much imagination and people simply go crazy but we're not talking about throwing out the R and the L, the Right and the Long, but just giving our imagination some playtime. Simple!    

 

Now I'm a bit of an anarchist but I also don't think force and violence are necessarily the way to a more relaxed, peaceful and fun world. Perhaps if there was simply more dancing in the streets, less conformity and just a lot more colour within the human sphere then people might actually excel with regards to what's 'rational and logical' and accept that the essence of being is to strive to enjoy it and that requires a big splash of imagination? Answers on a postcard! 

 

Of course there are pitfalls with seeing life as one big party, and I will note here that I'm no hedonist, but who doesn't want to enjoy life? We too often neglect our imagination because we think cleverness and achievement are the most important thing! Basically brother Logic and sister Rational would never have existed if it wasn't for Imagination! so lets give imagination respect and get the body-paints out and be a production and not a product!!   

 

Now could we all dance?! 

Edited by Patrick Brown
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Well - that is a whole new perspective on what the words "rational" and "logical" are supposed to mean. :o

 

Given your interpretation you might as well consider my comment as not being written.

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Many years ago I remember reading something - can’t remember if it was Confucius or Daoist ... but it basically said “People should live away from society but not away from people.” At the time, a rebellious pre-teen, I was all about that!

 

Growing up we are told not to daydream, to focus on our work and told our imaginations are not real. It’s too bad. A friend recently asked me if my spiritual practices “make me more creative”. I replied that wasn’t a goal of mine. Maybe I should take up painting.

 

Good post PB!

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We humans are very funny.  We try to pick out ideas, or methods of thought, or even types of spirituality, label them, pigeon hole them, and point and say,  "This is the only correct way to live". 

Most of the ideas, definitions, I have looked at in life has some good points, some not so good,  but never found one method that is the tits. 

Most beliefs, definitions, ideas i have encountered, (and I have not even come close to reviewing all of them), are build on shaky foundations, or foundations that have gone back for thousands of years, yet we pronounce, in our hubris  that "our modern human method is the best" LOL knee slapping funny.

I like the idea of a tool box representing methods of thought, looking into the mystery of life.  Rational thought for me, is like a hammer, it breaks stuff apart and analyses the parts.  But sometimes we need sandpaper, screwdrivers, mirrors, wenches for other kinds of investigation.  

Finding the right tool, is part of what I call being creative.  :) 

 

 

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Ironic rant to blow off steam. (Better not read it!)

 

Spoiler

Must have been my lack of imagination, while it's so simple: just redefine "rational" and "logical" as what most people consider as the right way to live (particularly when they are talking to young people), and the hard problems of the foundations of knowledge and the correct way(s) of reasoning crumble away into insignificance. Who knows what's truth anyway? Happy go lucky does it. Lets have our fun about those idiots who think that facts matter (what are facts anyway?), or that one should consider arguments in arriving at one's opinion. That's all old school. We are living in the post-truth age now. :wacko:

 

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18 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Ironic rant to blow off steam

good to do this once in a while.  i can relate.  

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1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

Growing up we are told not to daydream, to focus on our work and told our imaginations are not real. It’s too bad. A friend recently asked me if my spiritual practices “make me more creative”. I replied that wasn’t a goal of mine. Maybe I should take up painting.

 

Some people really enjoy their work and that's great because that might be their bliss. There's no rule that says everybody will enjoy the same things. All I can say is balance and moderation in all things is often good advice. Comments like "you can't have to much of a good thing" just aren't logical!! ;)

 

wandelaar will be on that like the plague! 

 

 

1 hour ago, Zen Pig said:

Finding the right tool, is part of what I call being creative.  :) 

 

Sorry but i still can't stop laughing!!! :lol:

 

 

8 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Who knows what's truth anyway?

 

Well all things are relative apparently but truth can, and does, often cut like a knife, especially on the physical plane! As for emotional and mental truth well that's where things starts to get complicated.

 

We should also differentiate between philosophical logic and everyday common sense for the sake of the children. :) 

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13 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

good to do this once in a while.  i can relate.  

 

Thanks! I had to quite with this topic in a way that wouldn't add to my and others irritation, and in this way it worked.

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19 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

We should also differentiate between philosophical logic and everyday common sense for the sake of the children. :) 

 

Sure enough! And modern philosophical logic is a very creative discipline with lots of exotic approaches to choose from. :D

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Imagination is great, but when you use it in hand in hand with your heart's ability to feel your way to what is the best possible imagination for you, then you can truely realise the freedom that imagination is there for you to bring to you the ever more of. And then also the ability of the physical body to act on that inspiration of the imagination of ultimate freedom and joy and love and empowerment and appreciation and knowledge, in the best way way you can, then fully takes all of that energy and crystalizes it for you in your life. Makes it ever so more real and physical. Ongoingly.

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Looking at the function of imagination, it was our prime differentiation tool. Its what makes humans distinctive from all other animals and allowed technology and culture to develop. Not that other animals do not have imagination, its the way we use it.

 

The distinctive human trait is not just as 'toolmaker' (as used to be thought) it is a 'tool designer for a future perceived use' - that is not immediately apparent and this applies especially so with a multi use tool, even if it is a simple shaped stick (eg, some woomera are designed to throw a spear, have a pointed end to make it a digging stick and a hollow along the shaft to scoop water ).

 

This, and other early innovations where developed in the imagination ;  a mental run down of what might happen and how to deal with it. A mind map that can diverge at each point, depending on the outcome to produce many possible outcomes that one needs to be ready for .  Its the essential 'human difference'.

 

Expressing these creative imaginings is 'soul expression' . When we 'get it right'  the soul is 'happy' and satisfied. When we dont have freedom to explore and express these imaginations (technologically, artistically, emotively, etc . ) the soul and creativity is suppressed.

 

By soul, I dont mean some type of ghost double. I mean it in the classical sense  - 'psyche' .   It is in a dynamic with ego , sometimes healthy, or sometimes not.

 

Its all expressed here symbolically;

https://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Psykhe.html

 

It is an extremely valuable tool and those  with an ordered psyche (see my recent posts on 'elemental hierarchy' and its operation in the psyche and the relationship and position of mind ) can use it to great advantage  eg, artists, inventors, builders. etc

 

But as with most of us, having a disordered psyche and mind running rampant along with ego and imagination, and all the functions not understood or regulated  ... we get the 'imaginative messes'   some have described above .

 

Book recommendation :

 

image.png.2f455c89b2c7dd61520b346739f32730.png

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On 05/01/2019 at 11:31 AM, Everything said:

Imagination is great, but when you use it in hand in hand with your heart's ability to feel your way to what is the best possible imagination for you, then you can truely realise the freedom that imagination is there for you to bring to you the ever more of. And then also the ability of the physical body to act on that inspiration of the imagination of ultimate freedom and joy and love and empowerment and appreciation and knowledge, in the best way way you can, then fully takes all of that energy and crystalizes it for you in your life. Makes it ever so more real and physical. Ongoingly.

 

This what just came to mind 'crystalizes' as I was thinking when we were children our games were of 'play acting and imagining'. What do we do now we're older? Seems we forget to play and thus lose our ability to manifest! 

 

On 05/01/2019 at 9:31 PM, Nungali said:

Expressing these creative imaginings is 'soul expression' . When we 'get it right'  the soul is 'happy' and satisfied. When we dont have freedom to explore and express these imaginations (technologically, artistically, emotively, etc . ) the soul and creativity is suppressed.

 

By soul, I dont mean some type of ghost double. I mean it in the classical sense  - 'psyche' .   It is in a dynamic with ego , sometimes healthy, or sometimes not.

 

Its all expressed here symbolically;

https://www.theoi.com/Ouranios/Psykhe.html

 

It is an extremely valuable tool and those  with an ordered psyche (see my recent posts on 'elemental hierarchy' and its operation in the psyche and the relationship and position of mind ) can use it to great advantage  eg, artists, inventors, builders. etc

 

But as with most of us, having a disordered psyche and mind running rampant along with ego and imagination, and all the functions not understood or regulated  ... we get the 'imaginative messes'   some have described above .

 

The idea of our imagination being a precursor to what we manifest in our life is a powerful idea and one which isn't new. Of course many motivational speakers suggest we use picture boards and mantrams to reinforce what we wish to achieve, change and evolve in our lives. There's also 'The Secret' and the law of attraction which I never really liked but it does have some merit.  

 

I wonder how much 'play acting', maybe even role playing, can still be used as a tool of manifesting as we grow older? The will and the imagination are integral parts of the mechanism for manifesting, yes? These functions of mind/consciousness must have evolved with us but have they out grown their use and are now a hindrance? Well obviously I don't think so but perhaps the function, use or goal is now simply different? 

 

So:

Imagination there's a reason for it and we just need to understand what the reason now is as we begin to understand what it once was!  

 

If we dreamed ourselves into reality can't we now tailor our dream?

 

 

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Patrick maybe you belong in Cuba or somewhere in Africa where they enjoy dancing as well.

 

I think the white man mentality is to bog down everything, to analyse everything to death so the soul has nothing to enjoy anymore. 

 

People who are overly intellectual are just hiding their trauma and using the intellect to appear intelligent. 

 

Regarding The Secret, the problem is that one needs to take action into the unknown instead of waiting passively for mana from heaven. 

 

Anyway when I dance there are no issues and everything appears perfect. 

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14 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

This what just came to mind 'crystalizes' as I was thinking when we were children our games were of 'play acting and imagining'. What do we do now we're older? Seems we forget to play and thus lose our ability to manifest! 

 

Personally, I dont.   I still ;play' and I still manifest. 'Play' is more mature now, it might take the form of practice, using the imagination to create a scenario. or if I do a house design, I will 'play' it using my imagination and make a model to work out the kinks.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

 

The idea of our imagination being a precursor to what we manifest in our life is a powerful idea and one which isn't new. Of course many motivational speakers suggest we use picture boards and mantrams to reinforce what we wish to achieve, change and evolve in our lives.

 

This should be basic life knowledge and not even 'an idea' .  I guess most of humanity just operates semi-consciously ?

 

Using the elemental hierarchical model , it should work like this ;

 

'spirit'  (  the individual, gets an 'inspiration', a spark of realisation, a flash of ;intuition)  fire  ( then we see how we feel about it and  associate / meld with it ) water  ( then we explore ways, in our mind / imagination ) air  ( to implement it in reality ) earth .

 

 

14 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

 

 

There's also 'The Secret' and the law of attraction which I never really liked but it does have some merit.  

 

Hmmmm .    I dont recall you being around since I posted this last - enjoy :

 

 

 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

I wonder how much 'play acting', maybe even role playing, can still be used as a tool of manifesting as we grow older? The will and the imagination are integral parts of the mechanism for manifesting, yes? These functions of mind/consciousness must have evolved with us but have they out grown their use and are now a hindrance? Well obviously I don't think so but perhaps the function, use or goal is now simply different? 

 

Depends if you are a wage slave or an artist , inventor, creator, explorer, etc .

 

 

14 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

So:

Imagination there's a reason for it and we just need to understand what the reason now is as we begin to understand what it once was!  

 

If we dreamed ourselves into reality can't we now tailor our dream?

 

 

 

 

'If'   we did  ... but we didnt .      Big snake did that .

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Serpent

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On 1/11/2019 at 8:49 PM, Patrick Brown said:

 

This what just came to mind 'crystalizes' as I was thinking when we were children our games were of 'play acting and imagining'. What do we do now we're older? Seems we forget to play and thus lose our ability to manifest! 

 

 

The idea of our imagination being a precursor to what we manifest in our life is a powerful idea and one which isn't new. Of course many motivational speakers suggest we use picture boards and mantrams to reinforce what we wish to achieve, change and evolve in our lives. There's also 'The Secret' and the law of attraction which I never really liked but it does have some merit.  

 

I wonder how much 'play acting', maybe even role playing, can still be used as a tool of manifesting as we grow older? The will and the imagination are integral parts of the mechanism for manifesting, yes? These functions of mind/consciousness must have evolved with us but have they out grown their use and are now a hindrance? Well obviously I don't think so but perhaps the function, use or goal is now simply different? 

 

So:

Imagination there's a reason for it and we just need to understand what the reason now is as we begin to understand what it once was!  

 

If we dreamed ourselves into reality can't we now tailor our dream?

 

 

The imagination is only for the purpose of allowing yourself to feel good. If you can approach your imagination in that way, yes then it will always show you what is to be for you evermore.

 

To imagine the way you want to feel, that will then forever inspire you to move forward with that feeling and it can only ever happen or be allowed to happen through that feeling of love or good feeling emotion, that you have allowed to be more fully, through your using of your imagination to reach the best feeling you can in any given moment, to allow yourself to stabilize that feeling and learn of it's blessings for you evermore, that it can have for you, if you allow it.

 

But only if you only ever keep holding on to imagination itself, even tho it no longer feels good, then it will just become another form of limitation, like any other of your physical life experiences.

 

So be flexible and always present in your moment of now and here, then you always have acces to the best feeling imagination you can possibly find, evermore. As you are thus then also able to feel your way through it, always fully through the guidance of your emotions, that let you know wether you are focused more unto what it is you truely want or not.

 

Someone may say, you are only happy if you are my slave. So keep imagining that you are my slave untill you are happy. That can never work. For only you can ever tell in the moment of how you're feeling as you are focusing your mind's capability of imagining and envisioning what it is that you truely want in any given moment. And the next moment, and new moment, and new here and now. And the now, here and now, and new here and now. Always. As you, as all, is here, and now is forever.

 

You always have everything you need already contained within you for the full blown realisation of all that you can ever be fuller and more greater realisator of, creator of and allower of. And the best way to master it, is to allow your hearts feeling and emotion to guide you in your everlasting journey, evermore, always here and now. As all is here and now is forever.

 

May it all be well with you.

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On 1/11/2019 at 9:17 PM, Nungali said:

 

 

Funny video. That is a good example of how people use imagination for conditional love. That always serves them only to limit themselves.

 

So if one, again, uses the imagination only for the purpose of feeling good, in the moment of their imagining, then you understand the unconditional love, through which everything in the universe is created, including you and all that is of your life, evermore.

 

The creations that you have been asking for, has already been created by the power that creates world, and will be doing so evermore. It is only when you feel good that in that moment you are allowing your very own personal ever greater realisation of it all. And thus then you are allowing all of that you want, in your ever more allowed realisation of it, through your feelings that feel like passion and excitement and love and eagerness and happiness and joy and empowerment and freedom  and knowing and clarity and well-being.

 

And then you can leverage your aligment with Power that Creates World, as you allow Source Energy and Perspective to flow through you for the fulfillment of all of your life's desires and more, that is more than well known by your greater non-physical being and consciousness, that also thus then always guides you through your heart for the full ever more greater realisation of all of it, evermore. Including all the physical realisations and more, that always and only ever ment for you and no one else. For you are at the center of your own yoUniverse.

 

But only if you realise it doesn't happen outside of you, but only ever through you, then you simply allow yourself to feel good, and take the path of least resistance towards the fulfillment of all that you truely want evermore, and the good feeling emotion is the indication that lets you know wether you are thus then in any given moment on the path of least resistance or not, and allow all that is good for you to evermore flow to you, effortlessly. Without trying to make anything happen. But allowing what truely needs to happen and thus then can will be allowed to serve you evermore, in your ever greater and more fuller realisation of all that who it is and what it is that you truely already always have been, are wanting, and will be the ever becoming of evermore. If you truely allow it to be that simple.

 

For you truely did not come here into this life to make everything more complicated than it even wants to be or ever will be the wanting of it to be, evermore.

Edited by Everything

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