successor or no successor?

[3bob]

Some major schools or lineages of truth have successors on this side,  some lineages of truth come to an end on this side as far as a successor goes - although their advanced students may still be around to help - I can see how a founder working on and from the other side could have a lot of influence yet such would not seem comparable to having a full blown successor on this side?  I don't need to know of any particular lineages but I do wonder about the general principle of what happens and why if continued spiritual evolution per successors is part of the modus operandi of spirit...

 

any ideas?

[Daeluin]

I think it is similar to lineages of anything. DNA is passed from species to species. Often it branches out like a tree as that species begins to thrive. As the environment changes evolution occurs and in time that species dies out or wanes in power. Maybe it'll grow again someday too. Yet in the mean time we often have other species that have evolved in different ways and are perhaps able to survive better through the changed environment.

 

With spiritual lineages, we may have traditional schools of thought that are deeply rooted in the slower moving ways of pre-modern society. Today we have many teachers who still share these deep and poignant lineages with us, and we have many students who only grasp so much of them, but are more integrated into the modern environment, and are learning to transmit their own version of the received teachings to those who are less inclined to seek them out, through these new mediums. It isn't the same lineage, not the same species, but is perhaps more like an evolution of the old into the new that thrives better within a new environment. Like traditional yoga and western yoga.

 

In the end, those who are able to go deep follow the veins of lineage back to the root, through all they are connected to. As humans, awakening is often spoken of in relation to an awareness of our own lineage. As we transcend time and space we are owning our body's energetic connection where we are tied to time and space in our wei and qiao vessels, and our transcending this connection comes with the harmonization of various aspects of our DNA.

 

Our DNA is just one of the things we are connected to in lineage. We are also connected via the various threads of knowledge and understandings encoded in our societal paradigm. As we begin to enact various patterns within ourselves in stronger and stronger ways, we begin to more deeply change our perspective within the whole, and begin to follow similar series of changes and choices as others who have carried these patterns within the past. Yet we are different, this time is different, and so we make new and different choices based on who we are now.

 

And yet the center of things is always the center of things, despite the many changes. The more we are able to connect toward the center of things from any given perspective, the more we will tap into those veins that reach back to the root, and those will help us as we navigate this new present moment back to the root.

 

Spiritually speaking, I would imagine it follows a similar course, but following the principles of spirituality. It requires greater sensitivity and refinement to tap into what is spiritual, and what is spiritual follows a greater current of harmony than what is earthly. Thus the spiritual lineages might end and begin more as needed, without being quite as tied to particular material existences within the earthly/human realm. As such we might not be able to as easily recognize their earthly/human manifestations as be related to the earlier manifestations of that lineage until we are able to tap into the spiritual component and come into realization of how the same patterns are unfolding within a new time and space.

 

A bit abstract, but perhaps this is enough of a general principle to translate into what works for you.

[3bob]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply Daeulin...part of the reason I brought up the subject was because it would seem that a successor could make the appropriate form changes yet still maintain the spiritual essence of the teachings which do not change, (as you implied) thus intercepting and correcting with authority all sorts of problems that tend to crop up over time when a line or school of teaching does not have a successor on this side.  I understand why things may have to more or less go underground at times along with a successor doing the same yet in that case the line would still not be broken just far less public. 

[Jeff]

I think it is similar to lineages of anything. DNA is passed from species to species. Often it branches out like a tree as that species begins to thrive. As the environment changes evolution occurs and in time that species dies out or wanes in power. Maybe it'll grow again someday too. Yet in the mean time we often have other species that have evolved in different ways and are perhaps able to survive better through the changed environment.

 

With spiritual lineages, we may have traditional schools of thought that are deeply rooted in the slower moving ways of pre-modern society. Today we have many teachers who still share these deep and poignant lineages with us, and we have many students who only grasp so much of them, but are more integrated into the modern environment, and are learning to transmit their own version of the received teachings to those who are less inclined to seek them out, through these new mediums. It isn't the same lineage, not the same species, but is perhaps more like an evolution of the old into the new that thrives better within a new environment. Like traditional yoga and western yoga.

 

In the end, those who are able to go deep follow the veins of lineage back to the root, through all they are connected to. As humans, awakening is often spoken of in relation to an awareness of our own lineage. As we transcend time and space we are owning our body's energetic connection where we are tied to time and space in our wei and qiao vessels, and our transcending this connection comes with the harmonization of various aspects of our DNA.

 

Our DNA is just one of the things we are connected to in lineage. We are also connected via the various threads of knowledge and understandings encoded in our societal paradigm. As we begin to enact various patterns within ourselves in stronger and stronger ways, we begin to more deeply change our perspective within the whole, and begin to follow similar series of changes and choices as others who have carried these patterns within the past. Yet we are different, this time is different, and so we make new and different choices based on who we are now.

 

And yet the center of things is always the center of things, despite the many changes. The more we are able to connect toward the center of things from any given perspective, the more we will tap into those veins that reach back to the root, and those will help us as we navigate this new present moment back to the root.

 

Spiritually speaking, I would imagine it follows a similar course, but following the principles of spirituality. It requires greater sensitivity and refinement to tap into what is spiritual, and what is spiritual follows a greater current of harmony than what is earthly. Thus the spiritual lineages might end and begin more as needed, without being quite as tied to particular material existences within the earthly/human realm. As such we might not be able to as easily recognize their earthly/human manifestations as be related to the earlier manifestations of that lineage until we are able to tap into the spiritual component and come into realization of how the same patterns are unfolding within a new time and space.

 

A bit abstract, but perhaps this is enough of a general principle to translate into what works for you.

Very well said. Thank you for the gift.

 

I might add that those newer manifestations (based upon their relative depth) could also have the potential to be sort of like a network connection (or flow through mechanism) for the reestablishment of other non-directly related lineages.

[Daeluin]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply Daeluin...part of the reason I brought up the subject was because it would seem that a successor could make the appropriate form changes yet still maintain the spiritual essence of the teachings which do not change, (as you implied) thus intercepting and correcting with authority all sorts of problems that tend to crop up over time when a line or school of teaching does not have a successor on this side.  I understand why things may have to more or less go underground at times along with a successor doing the same yet in that case the line would still not be broken just far less public. 

 

I wonder if sometimes the end of a lineage - there being no appropriate successor - might be quite the gift, if we are able to see it for what it is. When a void is created, things come to fill it, drawn by its patterns and sucked into its wake. Perhaps like a waterfall? The destination is not clear, and many will come to say this or that about what they think the destination is, or attempt to take up the reigns and presume to continue the lineage. Like water molecules dancing and crashing their way off the cliff - some will find the bottom, some may not, some may go to within the mystery - and all who pass by tend to agree there is some good energy in the area.

 

Lao Zi comes to mind.

 

The thing about authority is, it is often a natural process, like the branchings of a river or a tree. One may contrive to duplicate or set in play some mimicry of it, but if it disconnects from the celestial mechanism too much it will stagnate and suffer by the artificial complications of its own design.

 

Very well said. Thank you for the gift.

 

I might add that those newer manifestations (based upon their relative depth) could also have the potential to be sort of like a network connection (or flow through mechanism) for the reestablishment of other non-directly related lineages.

 

I think I can see some of what you mean, and it feels beautiful and natural, but is somewhat unclear to me. Are you open to elaborating further?

[Jeff]

...

I think I can see some of what you mean, and it feels beautiful and natural, but is somewhat unclear to me. Are you open to elaborating further?

As you described, the living master of lineage is not just a recepiant of oral understanding and teachings, but also a manifest vehicle that transcends "time" for the lineage to flow through into the world. And wisdom is wisdom, truth is truth, and clarity is clarity. Those with greater clarity radiate into the world. That "radiating" into the world creates a broader channel for all lineages. Kind of like a bigger broadband signal that can be piggybacked and enhance other lineages that may not have as rich of a living "DNA" in the world.

 

This is most easily seen by how living masters seem to automatically understand the meaning of ancient texts of other religions. As they continue to open, the lineages shine through them like overlapping concentric circles. This expanded radiating finds those with the capability to receive which may or may not relate to the original first lineage. The greater the depth/clarity, the more lineages that are encompassed and radiate through. With truly great clarity, dharma itself can be changed and all the world (and all lineages) can be enhanced/upgraded. Such beings of clarity are described as the Maitreya Buddha (or second coming - Christian gospels).

[Daeluin]

Oh, like this. The presence that resides in innocence and changes nothing intentionally, even as everything changes. The buffers and distractions to the lineages - the webs emanating from our origin - are dissolved in the presence of a great clarity that is naught but the momentum between here and there.

[Daeluin]

Oh. Hexagram 15 is also like this - Humility.

 

䷎
 

 

 

Humility means possession without dwelling on it. As for the qualities of the hexagram, above is earth ☷, submissive, and below is mountain ☶, still: Firmness still within, flexibility accords without; inwardly  firm while outwardly flexible, it is therefore called humility.

 

This hexagram represents preservation of yang by yin; it follows on the previous hexagram sameness with people. Sameness with people means mixing in with the ordinary world inconspicuously, using strength with clarity, so that strength is not used arbitrarily. Unless one's development and maturity is quite deep and rich, one cannot do this. The work of deepening development is precisely the work of preserving yang by yin. Preserving yang by yin is that whereby openness is consummated and tranquility pure, staying in the appropriate place.

 

Mountain is where one kills the self, earth is where one enlivens the self. Those who have not yet died first learn to die; this is the stilling of yang. Nonbirth is eternal life; this is the submission of yin. The stilling of yang is stopping false yang and nurturing true yang; the submission of yin is using true yin to repel false yin. When false yang stops and true yang remains, this is called nurturing; when false yin retreats and true yin appears, this is called submission. When one is able to nurture and to submit, one governs oneself with strictness and responds to others with openness; the mind becomes increasingly humble, while the way becomes increasingly lofty -- outwardly one is lacking, inwardly one has more than enough. Submitting to truth and according with people, one rests in the highest good and does not move. This is why the path of humility is beneficial.

 

However, if one can be humble in the beginning but not in the end, this is having a start but no conclusion. When stillness is not stable and submission is not appropriate, humility is false and not real, so it cannot be developmental. Only superior people who practice the Tao know where to stop, disregard what they have and appear to have nothing; they are single-minded on pure reality, they have a start and a conclusion, following the Tao in their acts, growing ever stronger the longer they go on. Therefore they attain the primordial emptiness, coming from within nothingness, congealing into the elixir.

 

Those who are not superior people think they have what they have not, think they are fulfilled when in fact they are empty. Self-satisfied, though they be reverent outwardly they are not respectful inwardly; diligent in the beginning, they end up lazy. They inevitably wind up stopping true yang and using false yang, obeying human desires and violating celestial principles. This is not only unfortunate, it is not developmental. How could it be considered humility?

 

Liu Yiming, tl Thomas Cleary, Taoist I-Ching

 

 

 

 

The top trigram, earth, is related to the mechanism of using submission to extend humility - of using true yin to repel false yin. In line 4 this is called extending humility to that which is low, as one can already extend humility to the worthy. In line 5 one is able to apply it to strangers and opponents, whereby it is beneficial to make an invasion.

 

Line six, the top yin line, is called trumpeting humility. Here is where it may find completion of the elixir by focusing on pure reality, inwardly conquering one's land and thus outwardly radiating purity. And also where it is oh so easy to mix it up and not bring it to completion, following human desires and false humility. Sherrill and Chu seem to get the essence of line six:

 

 

As in hexagram 13, where universal brotherhood has not yet been attained by line 6, here universal modesty has not yet been attained. The injunction given is to begin with oneself, and discipline every part of one's inner being, in order to establish modesty as a virtue of one's wholeness. When this has been achieved, it will be reflected externally and will be emulated by others, and be a blessing to all who one comes in contact with. These persons will have much modesty innately, but will need to be diligent and cautious int their careers, to be sure that quality is improved and quantity is used judiciously.

 

Most auspicious: They will be courageous and will carry out tao (divine will). They will be ever diligent to improve their modesty, and will express it in their leadership. They may have a career in the Corps diplomatique, the military, or some peace-keeping agency.

 

Least auspicious: They will be able to maintain their household in good order and condition on a modest scale, and at the same time exercise modest influence.

 

 

 

[laughingblade]

DNA is passed from species to species.

 

As we transcend time and space we are owning our body's energetic connection where we are tied to time and space in our wei and qiao vessels, and our transcending this connection comes with the harmonization of various aspects of our DNA.

 

I'm not sure how DNA is passed between species. If you meant to say that perhaps you cold clarify a little.

 

I'm quite interested in the radical idea that spiritual practice might change a person's DNA during their lifetime, and that maybe somehow by association with a lineage some aspect of that lineage might get baked into DNA. Is our childrens' DNA different as a result of our practice? We know that senescence occurs partly through DNA mis-writes when cells reproduce - maybe this can be affected by practice. Then there are epigenetic effects where inheritable changes to gene expression occur causing cells to 'read' the genes differently.

 

I've not heard anybody discuss DNA and spiritual practice before - is there more you can say, or sources you can reference?

[Daeluin]

Peter Shea speaks about this in his book Alchemy of the Extraordinary, as well as other parallels between classical Chinese medicine and modern understandings.

 

If DNA didn't have the ability to change, why would there be more than one sequence? I don't know much about this topic to be honest. It just seems somewhat logical that there would be changes - naturally these changes would be the most extreme where we have traumatic impacts upon a life-form which require it to change quickly and deeply to survive. We can also see that trauma impacts at the extraordinary vessel layer of the meridians, which are tied into the yuan qi layer and the bone marrow. People are able to get to these layers as they deepen their neigong practices, able to clear traumatic imprintings, create healthy and strong foundations... all manner of things. If I get a bone marrow transplant I start reproducing some other person's DNA, so if I am doing work at my bone marrow layers, perhaps it changes?

[Dharmakaya]

 

I've not heard anybody discuss DNA and spiritual practice before - is there more you can say, or sources you can reference?

 

 I am pretty interested in this as well, and I don't think it's actually that radical.  The key is epigenitics.  The way I understand it, our DNA is being changed all the time, minutely, through environmental interaction.  Environment doesn't just mean where we live, but also our internal environment, how stressed we are, how we feel about the world and ourselves and so on.  If stress causes DNA changes, spiritual practice, where ideally we are overcoming our innate issues, the opposite of stress, is thus very likely to be encoded as well in our DNA.

 

Basically, I think epigenetics means everything we do effects us on a chemical - cellular level, no matter how minute, so inevitably spiritual practice is going to have an effect and be recorded.  The more progress we make, the more change; an enlightened master has probably altered their genetics more than the average person.  We can think about it as our genes are what we're born with, and if we overcome issues like anxiety, or jealousy, maybe this gets passed on, at least to an extent.

 

Another interesting aspect about this is that we only pass on the changes we make to our DNA before we have kids.  If we think about average age of reproduction, between 18 and 35, the changes we pass on are those that have occurred growing up and in our early adulthood.  In some ways, our parents may have a great effect on what sort of altered DNA we will pass on because they are responsible for our environment in many ways for these early years. 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Dharmakaya

[9th]

DNA is a bit like Gaia's version of the Akashic records.  Its a living memory bank, and as such is also the source of what can be called "destiny" in terms of the earthly realm.  Its literally raw information - recorded, archived and encoded.  These records can be accessed and decoded by transmuting sexual energy - but actually this area is often misunderstood.  It does not refer to transforming semen or eggs back into sexual "energy", since they have already become sexual "matter" - because if you can transmute matter back into energy, you wont have much of anything to worry about at all anyways...  The correct understanding refers to the conservation and retaining of sexual energy before it becomes reproductive fluids.  Not in an absolute sense, as in stopping the flow altogether - but certainly much more than the average joe that is "leaking chi through the eyes" by lusting after every round curve and bouncing bit of flesh.

 

Sexual energy is the living connection which interacts with DNA.  Once it has become reproductive fluids or materials, it has "crystallized" in a certain formation which requires a complimentary external element for completion and wholeness.  This is necessary for a new life to begin.  If we wish to communicate with our DNA as it is and establish our personal connection to the Gaia mind, we must provide the equivalent space for a new life within our own being as well as the required complimentary element in its original energetic state - which is no small task, in fact it is a key aspect of the Magnum Opus, or "Great Work".

 

DNA contains the memories and recorded actions of your family, your ancestors, as well as the memories of those before them and so on - all the way back to the origin of all living beings on this planet.  DNA is the body's knowledge, it is what your body knows by way of "instinct" - and it is so vastly superior to the knowledge of your "civilized, human mind" that its like comparing the Library of Alexandria to a fortune cookie.  Its hard to overstate how much knowledge is contained in DNA, when properly decoded - and Im not talking about TCAG, codons and amino acids and so forth.  If you want to strike up some interesting resonances for yourself and your own situation, find a good translation of the I Ching and read it as much as possible, then look around for connections to its wisdom in your daily life.  The original writings of the I Ching are directly sourced from a holistic understanding of DNA in action, as are the underlying structure of hexagrams themselves.

 

Many peoples and cultures have esoteric teachings which speak of Dragons, Serpents and so forth - and these are messengers of DNA wisdom.  If you encounter such beings in visions, meditations, dreams, etc. - you will understand why that is so.  It is a universal phenomena in regards to human encounters with the Gaia mind - the Earth mind - the global network of consciousness where humanity is only one part of the whole picture.

[laughingblade]

DNA is a bit like Gaia's version of the Akashic records.  Its a living memory bank, and as such is also the source of what can be called "destiny" in terms of the earthly realm.  Its literally raw information - recorded, archived and encoded.  These records can be accessed and decoded by transmuting sexual energy - but actually this area is often misunderstood.  It does not refer to transforming semen or eggs back into sexual "energy", since they have already become sexual "matter" - because if you can transmute matter back into energy, you wont have much of anything to worry about at all anyways...  The correct understanding refers to the conservation and retaining of sexual energy before it becomes reproductive fluids.  Not in an absolute sense, as in stopping the flow altogether - but certainly much more than the average joe that is "leaking chi through the eyes" by lusting after every round curve and bouncing bit of flesh.

 

Sexual energy is the living connection which interacts with DNA.  Once it has become reproductive fluids or materials, it has "crystallized" in a certain formation which requires a complimentary external element for completion and wholeness.  This is necessary for a new life to begin.  If we wish to communicate with our DNA as it is and establish our personal connection to the Gaia mind, we must provide the equivalent space for a new life within our own being as well as the required complimentary element in its original energetic state - which is no small task, in fact it is a key aspect of the Magnum Opus, or "Great Work".

 

DNA contains the memories and recorded actions of your family, your ancestors, as well as the memories of those before them and so on - all the way back to the origin of all living beings on this planet.  DNA is the body's knowledge, it is what your body knows by way of "instinct" - and it is so vastly superior to the knowledge of your "civilized, human mind" that its like comparing the Library of Alexandria to a fortune cookie.  Its hard to overstate how much knowledge is contained in DNA, when properly decoded - and Im not talking about TCAG, codons and amino acids and so forth.  If you want to strike up some interesting resonances for yourself and your own situation, find a good translation of the I Ching and read it as much as possible, then look around for connections to its wisdom in your daily life.  The original writings of the I Ching are directly sourced from a holistic understanding of DNA in action, as are the underlying structure of hexagrams themselves.

 

Many peoples and cultures have esoteric teachings which speak of Dragons, Serpents and so forth - and these are messengers of DNA wisdom.  If you encounter such beings in visions, meditations, dreams, etc. - you will understand why that is so.  It is a universal phenomena in regards to human encounters with the Gaia mind - the Earth mind - the global network of consciousness where humanity is only one part of the whole picture.

This post just cracked my head open. Thanks.

 

There's a further angle which interests me. Although it may derail the thread I wonder if you have any suggestions:

 

DNA covers the predecessor / successor dimension of consciousness manifesting.

 

What about rebirth? It seems orthogonal to the DNA process. Abhidamma (sp?) says the consciousnesses are pretty much the same pre / during / post life, and that karmic load comes along for the ride. Impressions during life are stored in 'bhavanga' in the heart centre. It's unclear to me how those impressions get rolled into ongoing karma, let alone made available to successors. Then you have the indestructible drop in the heart - the coming in and going out place. Obviously I've done my procreating before death, but how does any Immortal Embryo development carry forward? So I'm mixing Buddhist with Taoist here I know...

[Karl]

Knowledge is passed from human to human via speech, writing and other forms of communication. A portion of the physical is transferred by the parents at conception. Neither knowledge, nor a healthy body are guaranteed by either process.

[9th]

What about rebirth? It seems orthogonal to the DNA process. Abhidamma (sp?) says the consciousnesses are pretty much the same pre / during / post life, and that karmic load comes along for the ride. Impressions during life are stored in 'bhavanga' in the heart centre. It's unclear to me how those impressions get rolled into ongoing karma, let alone made available to successors. Then you have the indestructible drop in the heart - the coming in and going out place. Obviously I've done my procreating before death, but how does any Immortal Embryo development carry forward? So I'm mixing Buddhist with Taoist here I know...

 

This seems to jump around a bit, landing on terminology and rebounding away like a frog making its way across lily pads.  Hopefully that is not offensive, because it is not my intention.  Sometimes its best to start out by going deep, under the water - and reaching as far as you can inside the internal world where the "true" knowledge is - which is "silent knowledge" - in other words, beyond human language but not necessarily non-conceptual.  Once you have been sufficiently saturated with this "true" and "silent knowledge" in relation to a particular scenario or situation it often becomes much easier to match up the terminology after the fact.  This isnt the best way for everyone, but something I would advise for those who would gravitate towards jnana (or gnosis) - which is what I sense in you - rather than those people who gravitate more towards bhakti or devotion. 

 

If you are talking about rebirth and karma in terms of the samskaras which extend beyond the confines of a present lifetime and reach back into the past as well as influencing the future, then you are speaking of a concept that can be related to the "firmware" of a computer in some ways.  Its a very low level, system-wide kind of programming that may or may not be loaded into memory at any given time, but always exerts influence in terms of operational capacity.  The analogy only goes so far however.  Samskaras are like a skeleton upon which the karmic activity in a given lifetime is sourced as well as the repository for its resulting effects.  Its not "you", but its intimately related to the phenomena of "you".  Just remember that most teachings which refer to karma indicate that the objective is to grow beyond its influence, to stand apart from it, and so on.

 

You refer to mixing buddhism and taoism (which is not necessarily a bad thing) and in fact this is the origin of Chan buddhism in China, more commonly known to us as Zen, after its transplantation to Japan.  The earliest Japanese Zen monks and teachers often refer to many taoist concepts and ideas from a japanese perspective, and one might even say the practice of Koan studies are directly related to the kind of poetry found in the Tao Te Ching and so on.  The most ancient Zen teachings also have direct references to the same kind of alchemical symbolism as taoism, but this was progressively dropped as more and more Japanese cultural influences were brought in.   Eventually this resulted in the advent of the Soto school which ultimately came to define Zen as it is commonly understood today.

 

However, it can be necessary to distinguish between teachings of anatman (buddhism) and those of atman (hinduism), because often there are other concepts which overlap and can cause confusion if you are starting off from the wrong foot.  The distinction between these two concepts is fairly nebulous at the core, and ultimately I would regard them as two sides of the same coin - however I also have no real interest in the kinds of debates and so forth that ancient (and modern) Indian scholars and practicioners would engage in, so there isnt much I have to say beyond that.  Notably Adi Shankara was supposedly a master of debating to the point that there are many fantastical stories about his prowess.  I bring him up specifically because of his instrumental position in the promulgation of Advaita or "non-dualism" and its focus on the atman, or paramatman (in relation to brahman) - as well as his staunchly anti-buddhist stance.  Ive always found the latter particularly interesting considering he seems to be saying the exact same thing as the buddhists, but simply arguing it from a different yet completely valid perspective.  Again it seems to be a focus on terminology alone which defines the discrepancy.

 

The teaching of anatman is a teaching focused on the concept of "no-self nature" whereas the teaching of atman is focused on the concept of "self-nature".  Traditionally it is understood that the concept of anatman (supposedly first promulgated by Siddhartha Guatama or "the Buddha" around 500 BC) is a response and repudiation of the concept of atman, which is a much older concept stretching back into pre-history, through the lineage of the Jains.  However, I consider this a bit too pat and dry, a bit too simple.  If you do enough research on Jainism and particularly the last Tirthankara known as "Mahavira", you will find a number of striking parallels to Siddhartha and his teachings.  Ultimately I would posit them to possibly be the same person, or at least directly related in a very intimate way.  It seems possible that there arose a necessity to break away from the earlier tradition even as it is built directly on those foundations.  In this same grey area is the fact that such a distinction between anatman and atman was probably already "in the air" somewhat, and perhaps even discussed long before, but not in the same formalized way, or at least lacking the same "celebrity" status.

 

In any event, it is clear that Siddhartha studied and practiced Jainism in depth, and this is even spoken of directly in the Pali Canon itself.  A number of key concepts and terms are directly derived from it - perhaps most notably the terms "samsara" and "nirvana" which I think most people assume comes from buddhism, which is incorrect.  However, what does come to us from buddhism specifically is this focus on the concept of "anatman" or "no-self".  This was the revolutionary idea that made Siddhartha stick out from everyone else, it was the biggest difference which set his teachings apart from all others at that time, as a "Master" or realized being himself. 

 

Unfortunately as modern people we lack the familiarity of context with those surrounding ancient teachings which he was responding and referring to at that time, as today the legacy of Buddhism is all that remains of the "conversation" between these ideas as far as most people are concerned - and yet this causes a great deal of problems in understanding the totality of the message presented by Siddhartha.  Particularly I would say there is not nearly enough focus on the term which Siddhartha used whenever he referred to himself - the "tathagata".  It has been translated in a number of ways, all of which point to the multi-dimensional truth he was trying to convey and ultimately something which I think is of great importance and key to understanding his philosophy in general.

 

Many scholars have presented the concept of nirvana as being the end of suffering in terms of a "snuffing out", which is closer to the direct translation but perhaps loses some of the intent when translated directly in this way.  A buddhist teacher once said "nirvana is like putting out the candle because the day has dawned" which is a much more accurate way of looking at it.  There is a commonly held idea that buddhism denies a "soul" or any sort of life beyond death, which is also completely inaccurate.  In fact there are many times in the Pali Canon where Siddhartha directly refers to the goal of reaching the "deathless".  What he did deny and what he refused to do at any point, was to describe what it was like, what could be found there, how it would all shake out and so forth.  His position is consistently that the awakened cannot be known or understood or even described from the position of not being awakened, and he absolutely refused to move away from this stance.  There is a great deal of focus on that point in particular, and I feel it has been taken wrongly for the most part as time went on and caused a number of lingering misinterpretations that have become taken for granted.

 

All this is to say that at the core, all the various teachings of evolution in regards to the practical progression of the living being (or self-cultivation, etc.) are related and essentially speaking of the same thing - and yet there is often seeming contradictions because we are missing the larger context of the culture and environment in which these teachings appear.  If there is a need to respond to a certain imbalance among evolutionary teachings in a certain period or in a certain area, then a realized "Master" who restores such balance becomes favored and championed, and so on.  Eventually, as the followers of such a Master repeat and disseminate these newer teachings which respond to older ideas, they result in fixed traditions - and that is when the problems creep in because it is like taking away all the context and placing the teaching in its own bubble, attempting to posit its existence in a vaccuum, as it were.  This is simply the "wrong" way to do it, and yet it is inevitable because it is human nature to do this very thing.  

 

I wont get into another 10 pages discussing the differences between "traditionalism" and "progressiveness" but that is where such a discussion is headed.  Those kinds of "righty" and "lefty" tendencies are extremely fundamental and deeply rooted at the animal level.  If you want to follow that rabbit-hole down an interesting path, do some research on the terms "deva and asura" in regards to Hinduism and "daeva and ahura" in regards to Zoroastrianism.  It is the same linguistic phenomena by which we have the different names "soma" and "haoma" for the same "magical potion" - but there are far deeper implications when taken in the full context of sadhana in general.

[laughingblade]

Thanks 9th. I think I derailed myself, but I really appreciate your pointers back into the historical origins of these ideas in this second post. I've got a lot to study from the material in both.

 

When I've consulted the I Ching in the distant past and went too far there was always the same hexagram and reading that seemed to hint "I already told you", so I'm going to do some study to open out these ideas.

[9th]

 

26.  Nurturance of the Great

 

In nurturance of the great it is beneficial to be chaste.  It is good not to eat at home; it is beneficial to cross great rivers.

 

Nurturance of the great means taking care of the great. As for the qualities of the hexagram, above is mountain - still, and below is heaven - strong; having strength yet being able to be still, it is therefore called nurturance of the great.

 

This hexagram represents incubation nurturing the spiritual embryo; it follows on the previous hexagram return. Return means restoration of the primordial energy. When the primordial energy comes back within, slight and vague to begin with, then becoming clearly evident, it restores the original self; the foundation of life is stabilized, the spiritual embryo is formed, and one enters from striving into non-striving. Then one should carefully seal it and store it securely, forestalling danger, incubating and bathing, aiming for the great transformation, the unfathomable state of spiritual sublimation, making it indestructible and incorruptible.

 

On this path, it is beneficial to still strength, not to use strength. Therefore the text says "it is beneficial to be chaste." Chastity here means quietude. Stilling strength is nurturing strength. The work of nurturing strength is the work of keeping centered, embracing unity; to keep centered and embrace unity, it is good to be still, not active—if one is still, this preserves strength; if one is active, this damages strength.

 

Stilling is not leaving the world, quietude is not empty inaction: Therein there is a way of adjustment, addition and subtraction; therefore one should not "eat at home." Only thus is one capable of great nurturance, producing good fortune. Not eating at home means externally adjusting the furnace while internally operating the true fire, still within and also still without, continuing subtly, not forgetting, not forcing. Then when one encounters great danger and difficulty one is unmoved, unshaken— only then is it real nurturing, only then is it greatness of nurturance. Therefore it is also "beneficial to cross great rivers."

 

The crossing of great rivers is that whereby inner nurturance and outer effectiveness is accomplished. This is the work referred to as "nine years facing a wall." "Facing a wall" is the state of being like a wall of immense height, detached from all kinds of biases and extremes, stopping in unknowing, breaking through space. When you break through space, the spiritual potential is freed, both body and mind are sublimated, merging with the Tao in reality. With greatness of nurturance comes greatness of development, and one becomes a companion of heaven.

 

[laughingblade]

Fascinating. Seems very appropriate to the position I find myself in.

 

Hexagram Fu / Return is 24. I suppose there's a sense of Innocence in the idea of the return of primordial energy.

 

I have the Wilhelm / Baynes translation:

 

 

The trigram Ch'ien points to great creative power; Ken indicates firmness and truth. Both point to light and clarity and to the daily renewal of character. Only through such daily self-renewal can a man continue at the height of his powers. Force of habit helps to keep order in quiet times; but in periods when there is a great storing up of energy, everything depends on the power of the personality.

 

Think I'll get a copy of Cleary's version: I really like the neidan emphasis. It speaks to my internal state.