Socialism does work

[Karl]

Feel sure that I know what the fuck I am talking about.

 

 

Government is reality.  I do not hold an incorrect understanding.  God is a concept.  Government wants to be God.

 

 

Inflation is the rising of prices.  Deflation is the reduction of prices.

 

Cause and effect?  You are currently speaking with the founded of "cause and effect".

 

The rest of what you said is well established.  I have no argument with it.  (There's more too it but that's another story.)

 

 

You sure love to judge my wisdom, don't you?  Very little is concealed from my mind.  I pay attention.

 

My retirement "cost of living allowance" adjustments as well as my Social Security are based on the inflation rate.  Thing is, the government keeps changing those items that are considered when the inflation rate is calculated making inflation appear to be far less than it really is.  This happens on a regular basis.

 

I agree that the increase in money supply feed inflation.  That is one of the reasons why I bitch about my government being 18 trillion dollars in debt.  That's 18 trillion dollars of magic.  That's 18 trillion dollars of inflation.

 

And I agree that supply and demand play a very important role in inflation/deflation.  You can see that with the price of eggs at this very moment.  Prices have doubled in just a couple weeks because supposedly the chickens went on strike and stopped laying.  Same happened with sugar, milk, coffee, and on and on.  But the prices never came back down after the strike was over.  Why?  Take your best shot at answering that.

 

You have used equivocation. Government is also a concept. Try and find one. That you have allowed yourself to be governed (ruled by others) is not in dispute. Governance is not in dispute, but I challenge to point to a government and you will discover that you cannot. You can point to a senator, a building and say that's where government is, but you can't point to government. This is why I have said you have equivocated on the word government. That there will always be some governance is inherent in our selves. We govern our own actions.

 

Please don't think I'm being arrogant, harsh or argumentative, or that I judge you in any way that is not in my nature, but what I say can sometimes come across like that. I'm aware of it, but in real life these words are spiced with humour and no one gets offended-well that's not entirely correct:-) my wife says I'm patronising and she is always right:-) . Here on the internet it's different, so I'm direct and that can create some conflict. Can't be helped, I don't do flowery and don't expect flowery.

 

I can't answer you question over eggs and milk, that's specific and I don't know the details of what happened. I could research it but it's pointless. I only work in a priori economic laws. I've researched many cases and it always comes out the same. Some government policy, tariff, subsidy, regulation, price fixing, money inflation, license arrangement, rationing or monopoly creation.

 

It's incredible how the state takes aclaim for things it didn't do, and simultaneously refuses any blame for the things it did.

[Marblehead]

Yet you are talking about you, because it is you that is demanding that something should be a certain way other than what it is.

How many mushrooms have you had so far?

 

I have demanded nothing.  I am simply expressing my opinions

 

It isn't 'your' Government either.

Of course it is "MY" government.  And yours and every other citizen.

 

Neither is it necessary to have 'a government' to defend your property.

I have never asked my government to defend my property.  I can do that very well myself, thank you.

 

'A government' does not answer to you, you answer to it.

Yes, that is the way it is.  It is not the way it is supposed to be.  But then, sometimes I don't answer their questions if I feel they do not have the right to the information.

 

You innocently

I have not been innocent since I was three years old.

 

and in ignorance

Oh!  Wow!  Now I am ignorant.  I have lived very well for 74 years and relied only on my own efforts and have never asked anyone for anything I have not earned.  I think you need a little self-questioning.

have agreed to a one sided, open ended contract of which you are granted privileges by the state.

BULLSHIT!!!  The state has granted me nothing.  I have my free will and that is all I need.  I don't even need government to kiss my ass.

As privileges

Where the fuck did you come up with all these privileges?

they can be granted or removed at will by the state

A few people would die, myself included, before that ever happened.

and they need not give you any explanation because you gave away your power to decide your own life.

You obviously have me confused with someone else.  I have never given up my power or free will.  And yes, the government MUST give me an explanation before they can do anything with or to me or my property.

 

You sacrificed freedom for the promise of security and will do your utmost to force everyone else to support there own enslavement for what you believe is the common good.

Why too many mushrooms you have eaten.  Please remember that you are talking with the TaoBum Anarchist.  Holy Shit!!!!

 

I have earned and maintain my own security.  And I would expect everyone else to do the same.

 

As an ex soldier have you read ' war is a racket' by General smedley butler ?

It's very short and is available on YouTube as an audiobook. It's more an essay than a book. I think you would find it interesting as an ex soldier to an ex soldier does.

No, I haven't read it and likely won't.  He would be writing at a totally different level than the life I lived.  I have read Sun Tzu though and understand that even my military leaders either haven't read it or if they did they have forgotten everything they read.  The USA has not won a war since WWII.

[Karl]

That would be "your problem", not mine.

 

 

That has laready been tried.  It was called unionizing.  Didn't work well because of the corrupt union leaders and the end result was more inflation.

 

 

Well, of course that is fair.  Sad the human animal is what it is though.

 

 

Yes, I operate by those standards.

 

 

That would be time for me to get my .38 out of storage.

 

 

That man would no longer exist.

 

 

Reminded me:

 

I once had a neighbor who is a former Black Panther.  He had a Doberman.  He also had a sign on his front door.  "Don't worry about my Doberman.  My .44 is much faster.

 

It didn't say unionising. Just one on one. Have you ever read the history of the unions during the new deal era ?

 

Yes, you operate by those standards. You don't need anyone to tell you what standard you should adopt. Most people are like that, they don't require supervision, they get on with life very well.

 

The man you would blow away. You understand the analogy that this is a man who would use force to extract from another, by force, that which he has not worked honestly for himself.

 

There is a philosophical concept going back to Plato who first codified it, it is the pyramid of power. Each stone is simultaneously bearing down on and supporting those above and below it. Many at the base support few at the top. Each layer manages the next an so on down. At the top the numbers thin out, but right at the very top, if you can climb high enough to see, that last stone is missing and in that high place stands a mirror.

[Marblehead]

You have used equivocation. Government is also a concept. Try and find one. That you have allowed yourself to be governed (ruled by others) is not in dispute. Governance is not in dispute, but I challenge to point to a government and you will discover that you cannot. You can point to a senator, a building and say that's where government is, but you can't point to government. This is why I have said you have equivocated on the word government. That there will always be some governance is inherent in our selves. We govern our own actions.

That's Buddhist stuff.  I don't speak Buddhist.

 

Collective, it is government.  Common knowledge.

 

Yes, I govern my own actions (in the most part).  That's called being responsible.

 

Please don't think I'm being arrogant, harsh or argumentative, or that I judge you in any way that is not in my nature, but what I say can sometimes come across like that. I'm aware of it, but in real life these words are spiced with humour and no one gets offended-well that's not entirely correct:-) my wife says I'm patronising and she is always right:-) . Here on the internet it's different, so I'm direct and that can create some conflict. Can't be helped, I don't do flowery and don't expect flowery.

We are having a discussion.  We have disagreements.  Big deal.  I rarely get personal on internet forums.

 

I have no expectations of you.  I would think that you are being yourself.  Remember too that my board name is Marblehead.  There are reasons for the selection of the name.

 

I can't answer you question over eggs and milk, that's specific and I don't know the details of what happened. I could research it but it's pointless. I only work in a priori economic laws. I've researched many cases and it always comes out the same. Some government policy, tariff, subsidy, regulation, price fixing, money inflation, license arrangement, rationing or monopoly creation.

Well Gee!!!  Nothing to argue with you here.  The "real" world is different from the "book" world.  I learned that a long time ago.  I also learned a long time ago the knowledge does not equal wisdom in most cases.

 

It's incredible how the state takes aclaim for things it didn't do, and simultaneously refuses any blame for the things it did.

[Marblehead]

It didn't say unionising. Just one on one. Have you ever read the history of the unions during the new deal era ?

Not that I can recall.  One on one exchange pretty much ended when government got involved in the market place.  Government needs its sales tax.

 

Yes, you operate by those standards. You don't need anyone to tell you what standard you should adopt. Most people are like that, they don't require supervision, they get on with life very well.

AGreed.  No further comment.

 

The man you would blow away. You understand the analogy that this is a man who would use force to extract from another, by force, that which he has not worked honestly for himself.

Yep.  The dude shouldn't come to my place.

 

There is a philosophical concept going back to Plato who first codified it, it is the pyramid of power. Each stone is simultaneously bearing down on and supporting those above and below it. Many at the base support few at the top. Each layer manages the next an so on down. At the top the numbers thin out, but right at the very top, if you can climb high enough to see, that last stone is missing and in that high place stands a mirror.

Destroy the pyramid!  Stand on your own two feet.  Defend what you have honestly earned.  Don't give to those who are undeserving.

 

I don't need to look in a mirror any more.  Been there, done that.  But I do keep the mirror clean and blemish free just in case.

[Marblehead]

I missed this earlier:

 It's incredible how the state takes aclaim for things it didn't do, and simultaneously refuses any blame for the things it did.

That is one of the best things you have said this morning during this discussion.

[Karl]

How many mushrooms have you had so far?

 

I have demanded nothing.  I am simply expressing my opinions

 

 

Of course it is "MY" government.  And yours and every other citizen.

 

 

I have never asked my government to defend my property.  I can do that very well myself, thank you.

 

 

Yes, that is the way it is.  It is not the way it is supposed to be.  But then, sometimes I don't answer their questions if I feel they do not have the right to the information.

 

 

I have not been innocent since I was three years old.

 

 

Oh!  Wow!  Now I am ignorant.  I have lived very well for 74 years and relied only on my own efforts and have never asked anyone for anything I have not earned.  I think you need a little self-questioning.

 

BULLSHIT!!!  The state has granted me nothing.  I have my free will and that is all I need.  I don't even need government to kiss my ass.

 

Where the fuck did you come up with all these privileges?

 

A few people would die, myself included, before that ever happened.

 

You obviously have me confused with someone else.  I have never given up my power or free will.  And yes, the government MUST give me an explanation before they can do anything with or to me or my property.

 

 

Why too many mushrooms you have eaten.  Please remember that you are talking with the TaoBum Anarchist.  Holy Shit!!!!

 

I have earned and maintain my own security.  And I would expect everyone else to do the same.

 

 

No, I haven't read it and likely won't.  He would be writing at a totally different level than the life I lived.  I have read Sun Tzu though and understand that even my military leaders either haven't read it or if they did they have forgotten everything they read.  The USA has not won a war since WWII.

 

What is an opinion, but that which you believe to be the way things are/should be. If not then why express anything at all.

 

Show me 'the government' that you own, that you may do with as you please as with any private property.

 

You had previously said that you wanted the government to defend ? What would it defend if it wasn't your property ?

 

You are taking ignorance as an insult and it isn't, we are just used to it being used that way. Do you know everything there is to know ?

 

Do you have a Government pension ? Do you need a licence to drive. A birth certificate, a social security number, a marriage license, a gun license, are you free not to pay taxes without penalty ?

 

If you refused to pay your taxes what would happen. Would they simply be forgotten about ? No, first there would be letters and fines. If these were not paid an agent of the state would turn up at your door and demand payment. If you still refused you would be taken before a judge and likely imprisoned. If you tried to resist with force you would be shot and probably killed.

 

Privileges are the things the state grants you.

 

I didn't say you gave up free will. I don't think that can ever be given up or taken. You have exercised the right to freely support a government ruler who places conditions on you and grants privileges such as the right to drive, have a bank account, draw a pension, basically everything except breathing and they can end that to.

 

Mushrooms ? The only one I touch are the button ones, or those big flat fryers. I had some with my steak and brandy cream sauce the other night. Lovely.

 

It's nice to be an anarchist. Yet anarchist means you support the absence of Government, or self governance. I hesitate to say that it does not appear to be exactly the case because I can see you pulling out that .38 and aiming at my head. :-)

 

Oh his essay isn't about a soldiers life, it's isn't like the art of war or the history of war, it's about who really benefits. Smedley was a soldier in the First World War.

[Karl]

That's Buddhist stuff.  I don't speak Buddhist.

 

Collective, it is government.  Common knowledge.

 

Yes, I govern my own actions (in the most part).  That's called being responsible.

 

 

We are having a discussion.  We have disagreements.  Big deal.  I rarely get personal on internet forums.

 

I have no expectations of you.  I would think that you are being yourself.  Remember too that my board name is Marblehead.  There are reasons for the selection of the name.

 

 

Well Gee!!!  Nothing to argue with you here.  The "real" world is different from the "book" world.  I learned that a long time ago.  I also learned a long time ago the knowledge does not equal wisdom in most cases.

Not Buddhist I don't think. I was showing that you cannot point to a concept.

 

Good, that you aren't offended so if you hurl a few insults at me I'm fine with that also. Sometimes things need a bit of colour.

[Karl]

Not that I can recall.  One on one exchange pretty much ended when government got involved in the market place.  Government needs its sales tax.

 

 

AGreed.  No further comment.

 

 

Yep.  The dude shouldn't come to my place.

 

 

Destroy the pyramid!  Stand on your own two feet.  Defend what you have honestly earned.  Don't give to those who are undeserving.

 

I don't need to look in a mirror any more.  Been there, done that.  But I do keep the mirror clean and blemish free just in case.

 

Did you not say that there needed to be Government ? How do you resolve that with the other things you are saying.

I'm not in the USA by the way. I think geographical distances and some of the primary freedoms under the original constitution probably mean you have a slightly different experience from that which we have in Britain.

 

It somewhat remind me of the time I spent advising businesses. It was easy to do because it wasn't me taking the risk. I got a salary every month regardless. I had also been where they had been and I knew how hard it was, but it was easy to give advice when I was nice and comfortable. It's easier to comply when the strings are at a distance and somewhat stretchy.

[Marblehead]

What is an opinion, but that which you believe to be the way things are/should be. If not then why express anything at all.

I have no response to this.

 

Show me 'the government' that you own, that you may do with as you please as with any private property.

Buddhist stuff again.  I can take you to the County Sherrif's office and show you a part of government.  The totality is all over the place.  Bets and pieces here and there.

 

And you are correct that I can do nothing directly with any part of the totality of government other than vote when it is election time and vote on issues that require acceptance or rejection by the people.

You had previously said that you wanted the government to defend ? What would it defend if it wasn't your property ?

The country.  From foriegn invaders.  To protect the borders from illegal immigration.  But, it needs to keep its freakin' hands off my property.

 

You are taking ignorance as an insult and it isn't, we are just used to it being used that way. Do you know everything there is to know ?

No, I don't know everything there is to know.  But apparently I know enough to be able to stay alive because here I am.

 

Do you have a Government pension ? Do you need a licence to drive. A birth certificate, a social security number, a marriage license, a gun license, are you free not to pay taxes without penalty ?

WoW!  Personal questions. 

I get Army retirement.  I earned it.

I have a licinse to drive.  I do know how to drive without a license though.

I have a birth certificate.  But the fact that I was born is a given.

I have had a social security number since I was eleven years old as that is when I started paying into social security.

I have had three marriage licenses.  Three divorce licenses as well.

In Florida a gun license is required for only concealed carry.  I don't carry concealed.

I pay my taxes.  I have never had a problem with that.  But if I had no income nor property or buy anything is a store I wouldn't pay any taxes.

 

If you refused to pay your taxes what would happen. Would they simply be forgotten about ? No, first there would be letters and fines. If these were not paid an agent of the state would turn up at your door and demand payment. If you still refused you would be taken before a judge and likely imprisoned. If you tried to resist with force you would be shot and probably killed.

Yep.

 

Privileges are the things the state grants you.

Hehehe.  You sure want me to be dependent of the state.  Ain't gonna' happen.

 

I didn't say you gave up free will. I don't think that can ever be given up or taken. You have exercised the right to freely support a government ruler who places conditions on you and grants privileges such as the right to drive, have a bank account, draw a pension, basically everything except breathing and they can end that to.

Well, like I alluded to before, if they decide my life should end there will be a few going with me.

 

No, I don't need all those privileges.  I can do a lot of things on my own.  I don't need government all that much.  It are those who cannot treat others the way they would like to be treated who need a government to tell them how to behave.

 

But granted, I need my government to remain financially sound so that I can continue getting my retirement and social security.

 

Mushrooms ? The only one I touch are the button ones, or those big flat fryers. I had some with my steak and brandy cream sauce the other night. Lovely.

Hehehe.  Good response.

 

It's nice to be an anarchist. Yet anarchist means you support the absence of Government, or self governance. I hesitate to say that it does not appear to be exactly the case because I can see you pulling out that .38 and aiming at my head. :-)

Oh, No!  I would never aim at your head unless I intended on squeezing the trigger.

 

There is no rule in Anarchism that prohibits self-protection.  In fact, Anarchism is built around that concept.

 

Oh his essay isn't about a soldiers life, it's isn't like the art of war or the history of war, it's about who really benefits. Smedley was a soldier in the First World War.

Okay.  My knowledge was lacking there.  The wealthy and government benefit from wars.  Everyone else loses.

[Marblehead]

Not Buddhist I don't think. I was showing that you cannot point to a concept.

Gee.  Didn't I already know that?

 

Good, that you aren't offended so if you hurl a few insults at me I'm fine with that also. Sometimes things need a bit of colour.

Anyone who gets me in a good discussion will see lots of color.

 

But I really don't intend any insults.  That wouldn't be nice.

[Marblehead]

Did you not say that there needed to be Government ? How do you resolve that with the other things you are saying.

Regretfully, I admit to saying that there needs to be government.  I don't see anything I have said as being in conflict though and therefore there is no need to resolve anything.

 

I'm not in the USA by the way. I think geographical distances and some of the primary freedoms under the original constitution probably mean you have a slightly different experience from that which we have in Britain.

I didn't realize you are not in the USA.  Yes, there are differences, some significant, between the USA and Britian but there is no need to discuss those here.

 

It somewhat remind me of the time I spent advising businesses. It was easy to do because it wasn't me taking the risk. I got a salary every month regardless. I had also been where they had been and I knew how hard it was, but it was easy to give advice when I was nice and comfortable. It's easier to comply when the strings are at a distance and somewhat stretchy.

That is so very true.  I've been on both sides of that myself and I can assure you that the doing is much more difficult than the telling.  Show and tell time works well for me.  "Show me" and tell me what you are doing while you are doing it.

[Karl]

Regretfully, I admit to saying that there needs to be government.  I don't see anything I have said as being in conflict though and therefore there is no need to resolve anything.

 

 

 

This gets to the heart of it.

 

You don't see, this is the issue. You are holding two conflicting concepts at the same time. If you aren't beginning to suspect that is the case then you would not have said 'regretfully'.

 

You don't like what you call ' the Buddhist talk' so that's going to somewhat hamstring the discussion. You seem to accept Government is a concept and not an object ?

 

You don't like the government creating $18 trillion dollars ? Why ?

[Brian]

<snip>

Government wants to be God.

<snip>

 

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Brian]

 

I don't drink beer.

Coffee? Tea? Lemonade? Warm milk?

[Karl]

I have no response to this.

 

 

Buddhist stuff again.  I can take you to the County Sherrif's office and show you a part of government.  The totality is all over the place.  Bets and pieces here and there.

 

And you are correct that I can do nothing directly with any part of the totality of government other than vote when it is election time and vote on issues that require acceptance or rejection by the people.

 

The country.  From foriegn invaders.  To protect the borders from illegal immigration.  But, it needs to keep its freakin' hands off my property.

 

 

No, I don't know everything there is to know.  But apparently I know enough to be able to stay alive because here I am.

 

 

WoW!  Personal questions. 

I get Army retirement.  I earned it.

I have a licinse to drive.  I do know how to drive without a license though.

I have a birth certificate.  But the fact that I was born is a given.

I have had a social security number since I was eleven years old as that is when I started paying into social security.

I have had three marriage licenses.  Three divorce licenses as well.

In Florida a gun license is required for only concealed carry.  I don't carry concealed.

I pay my taxes.  I have never had a problem with that.  But if I had no income nor property or buy anything is a store I wouldn't pay any taxes.

 

 

Yep.

 

 

Hehehe.  You sure want me to be dependent of the state.  Ain't gonna' happen.

 

 

Well, like I alluded to before, if they decide my life should end there will be a few going with me.

 

No, I don't need all those privileges.  I can do a lot of things on my own.  I don't need government all that much.  It are those who cannot treat others the way they would like to be treated who need a government to tell them how to behave.

 

But granted, I need my government to remain financially sound so that I can continue getting my retirement and social security.

 

 

Hehehe.  Good response.

 

 

Oh, No!  I would never aim at your head unless I intended on squeezing the trigger.

 

There is no rule in Anarchism that prohibits self-protection.  In fact, Anarchism is built around that concept.

 

 

Okay.  My knowledge was lacking there.  The wealthy and government benefit from wars.  Everyone else loses.

 

Yes it's all over the place. You can point to a man or building and say that is part of the Government. Yet it is just an ordinary man and an ordinary building, so why create the myth it is something other than what it is. Is the man much brighter, more worldly, has more wisdom, knows what you should do better than you do ? That's a rhetorical question, I already know the reply. LOL

 

So, protect the country. Does it need protecting ? I mean it's just a hunk of land, so you I assume you mean the life and property of its citizens up to, but not including yours ? As you said you can defend yourself quite easily. I get that, you are an ex soldier and that was your role. Are you absolutely certain that you knew what it was you were defending during your time in the forces ? Was there any time when you had a doubt ?

 

Why do you need a license for these things ? What business is it of the state who you marry ? Why do you need a state license to drive a vehicle-if you required insurance then a certificate of competence could be issued by a private examining body ? Or to have a child, to get divorced or even one to say that you had died ?

 

No, you don't need government all that much. Actually if you had been privately employed by an insurance company as a soldier by direct contribution from private funders then you could have negotiated a private pension scheme, probably a lot higher wages, better equipment and less risk of being involved in a conflict. You don't need a license for anything that you do. It is demanded by the state because you are Chattel-we all are. The state keeps records of its stock. It doesn't like other states getting its mitts on them because they are a valuable resource-the most precious, valuable and scarcest resource. The state isn't defending us, it is defending itself and the defence of its chattel is only a by product.

[Marblehead]

This gets to the heart of it.

It's always good to get to the heart of things.

 

You don't see, this is the issue. You are holding two conflicting concepts at the same time. If you aren't beginning to suspect that is the case then you would not have said 'regretfully'.

Hehehe.  I have been speaking from two different levels.  They are not in conflict as they operate at different levels.

 

The "Regretfully" was from my perspective.  It is regretfully true that, IMO, there are many who need guidance and controls.  Without these people would be out killing each other.  What you say?  They are already doing that?  I guess government isn't offering very good guidance and controls.

 

At the other level, mine, I am totally secure here at home.  I don't go out much.  I don't need government.  I will protect myself.  Calling 911 isn't protection.

 

You don't like what you call ' the Buddhist talk' so that's going to somewhat hamstring the discussion. You seem to accept Government is a concept and not an object ?

There are objects within the concept.  There is manifest reality within Tao.

 

You don't like the government creating $18 trillion dollars ? Why ?

First, most of it is waste.  Second, it causes inflation.  Third, it devalues my dollars.  I could likely come up with at least 3,873,419 more reasons.

[Marblehead]

Coffee? Tea? Lemonade? Warm milk?

Coffee all the time.  Tea sometimes.  Lemonade on rare occasions.  Warm milk?  I shouldn't speak to that.

[Karl]

It's always good to get to the heart of things.

 

 

Hehehe.  I have been speaking from two different levels.  They are not in conflict as they operate at different levels.

 

The "Regretfully" was from my perspective.  It is regretfully true that, IMO, there are many who need guidance and controls.  Without these people would be out killing each other.  What you say?  They are already doing that?  I guess government isn't offering very good guidance and controls.

 

At the other level, mine, I am totally secure here at home.  I don't go out much.  I don't need government.  I will protect myself.  Calling 911 isn't protection.

 

 

There are objects within the concept.  There is manifest reality within Tao.

 

 

First, most of it is waste.  Second, it causes inflation.  Third, it devalues my dollars.  I could likely come up with at least 3,873,419 more reasons.

 

Different levels ? Please explain. I'm not Buddhist or Taoist or any 'ist' except realist. Levels means to me differing heights of land, structures above or below a plain datum ? How doors that help to hold two differing concepts simultaneously. An example would be a square circle.

 

There are many who need guidance and control. By which you pertain to law and it's enforcement. Could that be carried out without the Government ? Is it possible that you could have laws operated by, for and of the area in which you reside but privately funded ? If you say that calling the police is useless what value does the state operation of the police force have ?

 

If the government is not offering good guidance and security then what actually is it offering you. I guess just the pension you paid into as a soldier which you could have got in a privately funded army.

[Marblehead]

Yes it's all over the place. You can point to a man or building and say that is part of the Government. Yet it is just an ordinary man and an ordinary building, so why create the myth it is something other than what it is. Is the man much brighter, more worldly, has more wisdom, knows what you should do better than you do ? That's a rhetorical question, I already know the reply. LOL

At least you have gained some knowledge of my philosophy.

 

So, protect the country. Does it need protecting ? I mean it's just a hunk of land, so you I assume you mean the life and property of its citizens up to, but not including yours ? As you said you can defend yourself quite easily. I get that, you are an ex soldier and that was your role.

Yes, my counrty does need protecting.  There are those who would love to have it and would kill in order to have it.  This can be seen throughout the history of the human animal.

 

Are you absolutely certain that you knew what it was you were defending during your time in the forces ? Was there any time when you had a doubt ?

That is a question that is dear to my heart.  No, I did not believe I was defending what my country has become.  I believed I was defending what my country was when I was young.  It was a different country back then.  Still with problems but different problems in the most part.

 

Good for me that, in the most part, I didn't have the vision to see the direction my country was headed toward.  I may have gotten out before retirement.

 

Why do you need a license for these things ? What business is it of the state who you marry ?

They need to justify their existence.  Make laws and make sure people comply with them.  Afterall, people don't know how to rule themselfes, they have to be ruled.

 

Why do you need a state license to drive a vehicle-if you required insurance then a certificate of competence could be issued by a private examining body ? Or to have a child, to get divorced or even one to say that you had died ?

Again, to justify their existence.  If there weren't any laws there would be no work of politicians and lawyers.

 

No, you don't need government all that much. Actually if you had been privately employed by an insurance company as a soldier by direct contribution from private funders then you could have negotiated a private pension scheme, probably a lot higher wages, better equipment and less risk of being involved in a conflict. You don't need a license for anything that you do. It is demanded by the state because you are Chattel-we all are. The state keeps records of its stock. It doesn't like other states getting its mitts on them because they are a valuable resource-the most precious, valuable and scarcest resource.

I can't argue with that.

 

The state isn't defending us, it is defending itself and the defence of its chattel is only a by product.

Once again, a profound statement.

[Karl]

Coffee all the time.  Tea sometimes.  Lemonade on rare occasions.  Warm milk?  I shouldn't speak to that.

 

Urgghh warm milk.......nasty, nasty. We used to get those little bottles of milk served at school. In summer they were left for hours in the heat until their caps were bulging. The milk that had been spilt had soured in the sun and the stench of its putrefaction hung in the classroom like a rancid fog. We were forced to endure the warm,curdling liquid whilst inhaling the vile stench.

[Karl]

At least you have gained some knowledge of my philosophy.

 

 

Yes, my counrty does need protecting.  There are those who would love to have it and would kill in order to have it.  This can be seen throughout the history of the human animal.

 

 

That is a question that is dear to my heart.  No, I did not believe I was defending what my country has become.  I believed I was defending what my country was when I was young.  It was a different country back then.  Still with problems but different problems in the most part.

 

Good for me that, in the most part, I didn't have the vision to see the direction my country was headed toward.  I may have gotten out before retirement.

 

 

They need to justify their existence.  Make laws and make sure people comply with them.  Afterall, people don't know how to rule themselfes, they have to be ruled.

 

 

Again, to justify their existence.  If there weren't any laws there would be no work of politicians and lawyers.

 

 

I can't argue with that.

 

 

Once again, a profound statement.

 

Yes, I've gained some incites into you.

 

Absolutely I regard defence as entirely necessary. I just don't see any reason why it needs a government to do it. Mostly these days it doesn't seem to be doing much defending ( and actually has it ever done so in its entire history)-they failed to prevent 9/11 and a whole host of other attacks. It appears to me it has ignored the entire constitution and gone off into the foreign entanglements it swore it would never do.

 

There is another good book which I read but can't quite remember it's name something like 'why the Wild West wasn't so wild'.

 

 

[Marblehead]

Different levels ? Please explain. I'm not Buddhist or Taoist or any 'ist' except realist. Levels means to me differing heights of land, structures above or below a plain datum ? How doors that help to hold two differing concepts simultaneously. An example would be a square circle.

Yeah, that one is a little difficult to explain.  Kinda' like "I know what I'm doing but noone else does."

 

Because I know myself I know I don't need anyone telling me how to live my life.  Because I have known other people I know that there are many who need to be told how to live their life.

 

Now, there is that possibility that everyone else thinks just as I do and therefore none of us feel we need anyone esle telling us how to live our life.

 

There are many who need guidance and control. By which you pertain to law and it's enforcement. Could that be carried out without the Government ? Is it possible that you could have laws operated by, for and of the area in which you reside but privately funded ? If you say that calling the police is useless what value does the state operation of the police force have ?

You are alluding to Social Anarchy and, yes, it could work.  But I have not seen it work anywhere except, as I pointed out before, in small tribal societies.  Perhaps it is that the larger the population of a society the more controls are needed.

 

Police are almost always an "after the fact" function.  You report a crime, they investigate, sometimes catch to doer.  But still, the crime is already done.  But then, just their presence is a deterant for many would-be crimes.  And they do oftentimes provide guidance and protection for public safety.

 

If the government is not offering good guidance and security then what actually is it offering you. I guess just the pension you paid into as a soldier which you could have got in a privately funded army.

Yeah.  Choices.  I made my choices.  I live with them.

 

My profession in the Army was providing communications so that leaders could talk with each other.  It wasn't my job to seek out people and kill them.  Merc's get paid good money to do that.

[Marblehead]

Urgghh warm milk.......nasty, nasty. We used to get those little bottles of milk served at school. In summer they were left for hours in the heat until their caps were bulging. The milk that had been spilt had soured in the sun and the stench of its putrefaction hung in the classroom like a rancid fog. We were forced to endure the warm,curdling liquid whilst inhaling the vile stench.

What a memory!!  Some memories we just can't forget.  I can understand where that would be one of yours.

[dust]

I haven't read all 21 pages but it seems that the conversation has left its original territory?

 

Re: defence

 

Anyone or anything that wants to survive should be able to defend itself.

 

There is a difference, of course, between

having a gun or a baseball bat hidden away in case of attack, and

stockpiling bombs, and sending tanks and warplanes and hired guns around the area, killing anyone who doesn't behave the way you like, and stealing other people's shit, ”just in case“.

 

In the latter case, one is always going to end up with many enemies...