How do you surrender yourself to whatever your doing?

[Marblehead]

Just accept the rhino, is a rhino.

And don't give it any cause to defend itself.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Marblehead

[ChiDragon]

Forget "surrender". That is not a Taoist concept.

 

The answer to your question is "mindfulness".

 

Don't you think, philosophically, "surrender" is "yielding" to the concept of Wu Wei....??? It would be like soften thing up as softness overcomes the hardness(yin overcomes yang).

Edited March 11, 2014 by ChiDragon

[thetaoiseasy]

.

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[ChiDragon]

Surrendering oneself immediately suggests two questions:

 

1. Who are you surrendering to?

2. Who is the surrenderer?

 

In the Oneness of Tao, neither questions are applicable nor truthful. Surrender is but another concept for the mind to play around with.

 

1. Surrendering to tao(the principles of Tao)

2. The cultivator who follows the principles of Tao.

[thetaoiseasy]

.

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[ChiDragon]

Yes, Tao is unity as a whole which is all in ONE but the "ALL" is not only one.

[thetaoiseasy]

.

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[Marblehead]

 

Don't you think, philosophically, "surrender" is "yielding" to the concept of Wu Wei....??? It would be like soften thing up as softness overcomes the hardness(yin overcomes yang).

Excellent question. But no. Attain wu wei does not require any surrendering or yeilding as wu wei comes naturally if one is at peace and without desire. And while what you say about softness is true, wu wei action (non-alterior purpose action) is not always yin but can be very yang when this is what is needed.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

By making the mental distinction between the surrendered and surrender, you have already fragmented the unity of the Tao. The surrender and surrendered are not different. They are one.

But only in the state of wu. Oftentimes we must live 100% in the state of yu and during these times everything is fragmented. Total duslism.

[ChiDragon]

Excellent question. But no. Attain wu wei does not require any surrendering or yeilding as wu wei comes naturally if one is at peace and without desire. And while what you say about softness, wu wei action (non-alterior purpose action) is not always yin but can be very yang when this is what is needed.

 

Yes, please don't forget one thing. Do you want to be Wu Wei....??? If your answer is yes, then that would be your only desire which you cannot escape without yielding the concept of Wu Wei. Another words, you have a desire to be Wu Wei prior for you to become Wu Wei in the first place.

[Marblehead]

 

Yes, please don't forget one thing. Do you want to be Wu Wei....??? If your answer is yes, then that would be your only desire which you cannot escape without yielding the concept of Wu Wei. Another words, you have a desire to be Wu Wei prior for you to become Wu Wei in the first place.

Nope, no desires here Bro. In my life wu wei comes to me whenever it wants if I am not too engrossed in some project.

 

There really isn't all that much time in my life when I can be total wu wei. I am a Materialist, remember?

[nestentrie]

You might say "trying" is the problem. There is no trying, no doing, no coming to, or leaving. There is simply the world. Don't expect anything of it, don't try to make it seem magical or interesting. Don't think about how it was better before, or will be good in the future once you attain something. Don't ignore or supress. Don't favor this thought over that thought, this feeling over that feeling. If there is pain, be content with pain. If there is fear, sadness or anxiety, simply let it be without rejecting or embracing. If you saw a plain gray rock and set it on the table in front of you, how do you feel about it? Well, it's just a plain gray rock. There is nothing special or unique about it. This is the great secret. Everything is a plain gray rock. When you finally see this, there is only contentment.

 

Contentment exists naturally under any feeling, any thought, any problem, any great joy, any sorrow. You don't need to end anything, find anything, fix anything, or solve any problems. The only problem is trying to make anything different from how it is precisely night now at the bleeding edge of this pure existance in time. There is no surrender, no relequishment, no action at all. Stop clinging to the edge of the cliff and fall into space. Allow all frayed strings and loose ends to fly free in the wind. Let the river take you over the waterfall. Be in that moment right before the bomb you are trying to diffuse explodes where you realize in an instant you are going to die, and you say, "I guess that's it."

 

You cannot try to be effortless, you can only stop all trying. Watch the mind passively. Watch your trying. Watch the doubt, the frustration, the effort, the effort to stop expending effort. Watch as everything you feel and think exists beyond your control. Surrender is relequishment, release, letting go, stopping effort. There is nothing beyond awareness, so you can't leave it and you can't come back. Whenever you feel yourself trying, watch the trying. Don't stop trying, stop trying.

 

Pretty well said. As much as I have bolded what I particularly like about your post there are other things to comment on too.

 

 

There is no trying, no doing, no coming to, or leaving. There is simply the world. Don't expect anything of it, don't try to make it seem magical or interesting. Don't think about how it was better before, or will be good in the future once you attain something.

 

I agree that there is no real coming or going for someone who doesn't have unrealistic expectations, but could I propose the following with a question?

 

 

2

[...]

All things spring up, and there is not one which declines to show

itself; they grow, and there is no claim made for their ownership;

they go through their processes, and there is no expectation (of a

reward for the results). The work is accomplished, and there is no

resting in it (as an achievement).

 

Is it the resting in achievement that you would guide someone away from? I suppose I'm quibbling for a point, but couldn't it be good that all things spring up and show themselves? Couldn't it be good that your grey rock is a grey rock? You follow with saying that there is contentment underlying everything, so my small proposal would be that there can be hope in everything too. As I see it, hoping for a good outcome could be fine as long as it isn't an unrealistic expectation, as long as it owes to hoping that things go through their natural process, and as long as there is no clinging to the result. I'd call it good faith and hope that you might consider verse 38 here (or even 23, risking a little obtuseness).

 

Apart from that concern, I dig your post.

[Kajenx]

This is actually a subtle point I've run into again and again over the last few months, and each time I leave myself 100 notes trying to explain things, but I always foget eventually and start hoping again, haha. Practically speaking, hope itself is the enemy. If you are hoping, that means you believe something needs to change. I can totally understand your point of view here, though, and I know my own reaction would be, "Well, then, what's the point of doing anything? Aren't you just saying you can't escape, and whatever you feel is how it is?" The answer is so simple it's almost impossible to grab hold of - I've felt it slipping through my fingers so many times - surrender itself IS contentment. It's actionless action. Whatever you are doing RIGHT NOW is the action. To make it actionless action, all you need to do is accept it completely. Look around in your head at any feeling or thought and, once you see it, leave it exactly as it is. What causes our stresses is that we are always trying to make bad feelings go away or good feelings stay longer. No feeling is bad or good, though, they are all simply sensations. What makes something feel good is letting it do it's own thing. Even the worst anxiety can be contentment. I wouldn't type it if I hadn't seen it for myself.

 

The word "rest" has actually taken on a new meaning for me, too, haha. It's the one note I left myself that always hits home. "What is the opposit of restlessness? REST!" Just rest within whatever state of mind presents itself.

 

Edit: I should note that this is all my own interpretation of things, too. If I'm using the terminology wrong (probably) the content is still true in my own recent practice. I can empathize if I don't seem to be making sense, as well. It all seems so simple when you're going through your day in perfect equanimity, then you wake up the next morning and wonder if it was all just a beautiful dream.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Kajenx

[beyonder]

...

 

I literally have tried hundreds of different things to no avail.

"If one does not count on the harvest while plowing,

Nor on the use of the ground while clearing it,

It furthers one to undertake something."

 

- I Ching, hexagram 25, line 2.

http://www.wisdomportal.com/IChing/IChing-Wilhelm.html#25

[Spotless]

What a wonderful question,

 

Conceptually the wording creates a blind spot.

 

Surrender is a loaded word and the idea that we are doing is an assumption.

 

Be in the moment and you are happening - not doing.

 

Be - is an unclothed spotless you - nothing is surrendered but that which does not exist - (your act - your disguise - your story - all that is Your)

Edited March 21, 2014 by Spotless

[Marblehead]

Great post Spotless.

 

What you said about the word 'surrender' is why I don't use it and actually argue against the concept.