Requesting help in regards to meditation and third eye opening specifically

[DeadDragon]

Oh, ok. He is neurotic.

 

"they are always frightened or worried about things that you consider unimportant."

 

Choose every word you speak with great care. I expressed carelessness in mine.

 

You're right most people do not think about how their words can impact another in a negative way, even when spoken with the best intentions. Most people might not even realize when it's happened. I'm not sure who's personal spiritual growth I impeded, and which words they were, and I don't think deleting them can even undo what I did. But I thought it best to destroy them all.

Edited July 26, 2013 by DeadDragon

[Tibetan_Ice]

Funny. Nowadays, my breath is initiated by psoas-diaphragm-perineum. I notice the diaphragm drops from the mingmen and downwards. Then I'm basically mindful of the movement the whole time. Of course, my concentration is not there to the point that the nimitta happens. I never experienced that. But yeah I kinda trained myself to get under the threshold and now it's habitual. So don't fix what's not broken.

 

I have noticed the same thing the breath became longer and longer after 40 minutes. Then the pain in my legs got to me haha. But I was just aware of it and the breath on its own got longer and longer. I didn't have to do anything but be aware of the mingmen and huiyin spot and they'll do their work.

 

Perhaps the difference is that I don't focus on the air passageways as many do but rather focus on the psoas-diaphragm-perineum. So when you focus on such parts, the breath don't really disappear. It just drops under the threshold of the air blowing through the passageways.

 

I don't see much of a problem unless you can't reach a jhana state of course. But sometimes that takes years of work before that happens.

Hi M

There is a direct connection between mind activity and breath. As the mind slows down, so does the breathing.

 

What you are doing is some kind of energetic practice, not breath meditation. I have done meditations on the lower dantien and activated the flow from it to the perineum, and then up. It is not hard to do. But it is miles away from breath meditation.

 

Focusing on the energetic centers stimulates them.

 

The progression that Alan Wallace talks about is this: you can focus on the movement at the abdomen if the mind is very coarse and hard to control, because focusing on the lower abdomen is easier because of the movement and coarse body sensations that occur. If the mind is more stable, you can switch to focusing on the area just below the nostrils. The advantage with focusing on that part of the head is that there is no corresponding energy center there, so you won't stimulate anything. I've tried breath meditation while focusing on the third eye and the stimulation is just too great. The best place to focus is at the nostrils, or even just above the tip of the nose.

 

However, the whole point is not focus on the physical sensations or the coarse movement of the breath.

 

You have to transition from the sense stimulation to knowing the breath. You have to find and the switch to the "Mental knowing of the breath". You switch to the "mental representation of the breath". Doing so and locking into that causes the meditation to become a strictly mental phenomenon. It takes you into a finer area of consciousness and as you stay there, that is where the potential for the nimittas occurs. When you fixate on the mental representation of the breath, after a while, it becomes clearer and more pronounced, and you find that because you are now ignoring the 5 senses, they start to shut down. As the mind calms down, the breathing slows (it does not elongate). This indicates that there is less activity in the mind. Around that time is where the background starts to get brighter. Then, a very bright light will break through the background, that is the counterpart sign. That is what you ignore until that bright light becomes so bright and stable that you just can't ignore it anymore. Then, you focus on it and it will take you into jhanas. It will either explode or engulf you.

 

So, there is a logical progression from coarse to finer and finer levels on awareness which occur and can be 'rested' in which only appear as the mind settles. If you stir up the winds by focusing on energy centers, the mind does not settle. Breath meditation is very very delicate. If I do sambhavi or tongue on palette, I don't see the nimittas. If I attempt a hand mudra, I don't see the nimittas. I have to do absolutely nothing except focus and watch. Even 'expectation' must be thrown out. Just focus and watch. It is that delicate.

 

Think "Let everything go, even trying to control the breathing and just watch the breath and know it in a very small area and stay there".

 

Another point. You should try to do breath meditation for at least one hour in one sitting. The major calmness usually starts to settle in after about 45 minutes, so 40 minutes falls just short.

 

I never sit in lotus or easy posture any more because of the pain in the legs. I made myself a short meditation bench that lets me put my legs under the seat so there is absolutely no pressure on the legs, hence no pain. I can sit on that bench for 1 hour, twice a day, with absolutely no pain. I have sat on it for 2 consecutive hours with absolutely no pain! Pain is no longer a concern for me. And, I don't believe that sitting in full lotus or even easy posture is any kind of prerequisite for being succesfull in meditation, as I have been successful without the postures. If you are in to energetics, use the postures. If you want to calm the mind, sit pain-free. It's not a contest. Even Alan Wallace says you can do breath meditation lying down in savasana posture (corpse).

 

 

 

TI

[joeblast]

Hi M

There is a direct connection between mind activity and breath. As the mind slows down, so does the breathing.

 

What you are doing is some kind of energetic practice, not breath meditation. I have done meditations on the lower dantien and activated the flow from it to the perineum, and then up. It is not hard to do. But it is miles away from breath meditation.

 

Focusing on the energetic centers stimulates them.

 

The progression that Alan Wallace talks about is this: you can focus on the movement at the abdomen if the mind is very coarse and hard to control, because focusing on the lower abdomen is easier because of the movement and coarse body sensations that occur. If the mind is more stable, you can switch to focusing on the area just below the nostrils. The advantage with focusing on that part of the head is that there is no corresponding energy center there, so you won't stimulate anything. I've tried breath meditation while focusing on the third eye and the stimulation is just too great. The best place to focus is at the nostrils, or even just above the tip of the nose.

 

However, the whole point is not focus on the physical sensations or the coarse movement of the breath.

 

You have to transition from the sense stimulation to knowing the breath. You have to find and the switch to the "Mental knowing of the breath". You switch to the "mental representation of the breath". Doing so and locking into that causes the meditation to become a strictly mental phenomenon. It takes you into a finer area of consciousness and as you stay there, that is where the potential for the nimittas occurs. When you fixate on the mental representation of the breath, after a while, it becomes clearer and more pronounced, and you find that because you are now ignoring the 5 senses, they start to shut down. As the mind calms down, the breathing slows (it does not elongate). This indicates that there is less activity in the mind. Around that time is where the background starts to get brighter. Then, a very bright light will break through the background, that is the counterpart sign. That is what you ignore until that bright light becomes so bright and stable that you just can't ignore it anymore. Then, you focus on it and it will take you into jhanas. It will either explode or engulf you.

 

So, there is a logical progression from coarse to finer and finer levels on awareness which occur and can be 'rested' in which only appear as the mind settles. If you stir up the winds by focusing on energy centers, the mind does not settle. Breath meditation is very very delicate. If I do sambhavi or tongue on palette, I don't see the nimittas. If I attempt a hand mudra, I don't see the nimittas. I have to do absolutely nothing except focus and watch. Even 'expectation' must be thrown out. Just focus and watch. It is that delicate.

 

Think "Let everything go, even trying to control the breathing and just watch the breath and know it in a very small area and stay there".

 

Another point. You should try to do breath meditation for at least one hour in one sitting. The major calmness usually starts to settle in after about 45 minutes, so 40 minutes falls just short.

 

I never sit in lotus or easy posture any more because of the pain in the legs. I made myself a short meditation bench that lets me put my legs under the seat so there is absolutely no pressure on the legs, hence no pain. I can sit on that bench for 1 hour, twice a day, with absolutely no pain. I have sat on it for 2 consecutive hours with absolutely no pain! Pain is no longer a concern for me. And, I don't believe that sitting in full lotus or even easy posture is any kind of prerequisite for being succesfull in meditation, as I have been successful without the postures. If you are in to energetics, use the postures. If you want to calm the mind, sit pain-free. It's not a contest. Even Alan Wallace says you can do breath meditation lying down in savasana posture (corpse).

 

 

 

TI

I go backwards from that, it all goes both ways.

As the breath slows down, so does the mind

proper mechanics automatically goes to dantien

harmonizing structures lets you build muscle memory to the extent it no longer exists, then the energy center reveals itself,

nostrils still have olfactory nerves, harmonized enough, poof gone

harmonized physical mechanics, no mental representation of anything, direct experience;

from that automatically comes knowing,

energy centers help fuel awareness more effectively when the mechanics are harmonized and dropped

even lotus uncomfortably, well, flow from mechanics and open energy channels, easy lotus.

[steve]

 

 

I never sit in lotus or easy posture any more because of the pain in the legs. I made myself a short meditation bench that lets me put my legs under the seat so there is absolutely no pressure on the legs, hence no pain. I can sit on that bench for 1 hour, twice a day, with absolutely no pain. I have sat on it for 2 consecutive hours with absolutely no pain! Pain is no longer a concern for me.

 

 

 

TI

 

I'd like to see a photo of your bench if you are willing...

[Tibetan_Ice]

I'd like to see a photo of your bench if you are willing...

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/30758-my-no-pain-meditation-seat/?p=458360

 

TI

[Rara]

Wow.