Chi Kung - The Ultimate Method of Breathing

[ChiDragon]

Here is the modern concept explaining the ancient concept of the ultimate method of breathing. It is known as Chi Kung.

氣功

[ChiDragon]

[ChiDragon]

[joeblast]

yeah, see that arrow in the last vid's still shot - diaphragm motion that oversimplified and illustrated as descending from the center of the diaphragm - that's where I found that hiccup after completely releasing the air passageways and learning not to use them while breathing...then slowing the breath down enough to find - yer doin it a littl bit wrong

[voidisyinyang]

The book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" is focused on the fact that creating chi from the air is completely errononeous.

 

Chi creation is based on celibacy and only through celibacy is real chi created.

 

So just a simple reverse breathing is fine until the chi energy builds up and then real breathing is not required as much as the chi energy creates "breathless ecstasy" as Shri Yukestwar stated.

[joeblast]

because he's referring to "real qi" as the alchemical ingredient. certainly, there are qi-qualitiative aspects of oxygen, breathing, etc...but if the context is the conglomeration of that which comprises the alchemical agent...all about context.

[ChiDragon]

For those who still want to beat on a dead horse; do it elsewhere. Please do not contaminate this thread with your erroneous information. Thanks.

Edited July 15, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

malikshreds......

I am considering myself as Taoist. Chi Kung is for the purpose of longevity, for good health rather. I believe the term "samadhi" is mental concentration or composing the mind. It is a method of meditation for Hindus and Buddhists. However, to a Taoist, breathing is more significant than the samadhi requirement. The awareness is mainly lies on the concentration of breathing. The consciousness of a Chi Kung practitioner is strictly having all the attention on inhalation and exhalation. Another words, when one inhale only knows one is inhaling; exhale is exhaling and think of nothing else. Thus a Taoist concentrates on the breathing rather than the mental concentration on something else as a Buddhist does.

Edited July 15, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

Thanks, I see what you are saying. I don't mind learning the definitions of the terms in other systems. However, what I like to do is to stay with one system and keep other terms out to avoid confusion.This is the only way that I can keep the consistency of one system without confusing the issue.

[Slim]

Thanks for the videos ChiDragon. Good back-to-basics stuff. I like the image of a baby breathing in the first one, very Daoist.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Slim

[shanlung]

(editted away the offending first para)

 

But this thread reminded me of Tseng Lao Weng talking of breathe in and out like asthmatic dragons in searching for the Tao.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/16408-is-your-method-really-working/

 

Taoistic Idiot

Edited July 17, 2013 by shanlung

[ChiDragon]

Thank you for your unwanted disparaging remarks. May I ask where is your valuable contribution to this thread....???

[ChiDragon]

Chidragon still on my ignore & disregard list and will be in there permanently.

 

Taoistic Idiot

 

Will be....permanently... ??? I thought it was permanently long time ago already.....!!!!

[ChiDragon]

I'm sorry to derail but I was asking and hoping you don't end up thinking samadhi don't happen from other types of methods of cultivation. To put it simple, samadhi can be called concentration too. So you are right.

 

Derail......??? Are you kidding...??? I think you are doing a great job asking legitimate questions.

 

 

@slim....

You welcome....!!! Yes, it is the most basic fundamental principle of breathing for all vital systems of life.

[shanlung]

(editted away the offending first para)

 

But this thread reminded me of Tseng Lao Weng talking of breathe in and out like asthmatic dragons in searching for the Tao.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/16408-is-your-method-really-working/

 

Taoistic Idiot

 

I actually have far better things to do then to go back and edit what I wrote.

Which was almost not written but by the of chance of a hit on my pages because someone in the world was searching for Tseng Lao Weng with Google. From idle curiosity I click on his search and gotten that thread started by Rene that I then went into and saw those words of Taoist Sage Tseng.

 

I used to do Kundalini Yoga, and was initiated by an Indian Swami into Raja Yoga, So I did a fair bit of chakra. And also was taught by a Taoist master in moving my chi along the RenMai and DuMai and DanTian breathing.

 

At the end of the day, did that work? or was it my imagination tuned to those sayings just running wild.

Maybe in my case yes, and in your case, who knows. All sorts of things do happen about in the world.

 

And then I came onto Blofeld as I definately had that book and I quoted from that book before. I must have read Tseng and no longer wish to be like his asthmatic dragon.

 

I know with ignore, I do not see anymore what I do not wish to see as I seen enough. Except the title was very telling.

Which perhaps I should just ignore

 

Then I recalled this saying from Cussler Dark Watch which went

 

I remembered my father's words later when Mom finally stopped sobbing. "Juan," he said, "no matter what anyone tells you, there is evil in this world. And all it takes for it to triumph is for good people to do nothing:

 

So perhaps I should have done nothing and walked on by . Which was kind of difficult when I saw what Tseng said which refreshed my memories of my chi running here and there and everywhere. Except I never would have proclaimed that the the ultimate Method of Breathing. And made it stick because I know Chinese.

 

So if I had not read Cussler, (still reading that now) and not read Rene's little essay, I would not have been in this thread. I would not have mod having a friendly chat with me even if he agreed Tseng Lao Weng was a wise Taoist sage. I agreed to the wisdom of the mod, which resulted in my self editting. to make hopefully everyone happy.

 

After all, I am on yet another of my journey to find a place to retire in. And the ox dropped me 3 days ago in Penang, Malaysia en route to Langkawi. And I do have better things to do then to go and edit a post of mine here.

 

 

Idiotic Taoist

[ChiDragon]

Let's stick with the definition of the English word "ignore" and follow what it means.

是非只為多開口

煩惱皆因強出頭

Edited July 17, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Bubbles]

**************** Mod in**********************

 

This is a kind reminder that people are invited to keep discussions courteous and if possible ,open-hearted.

 

So please don't add fuel to the fire.

 

**************** Mod out ********************

[ChiDragon]

Thanks for the videos ChiDragon. Good back-to-basics stuff. I like the image of a baby breathing in the first one, very Daoist.

 

Very Daoist indeed.

 

Back-to-basics stuff in explaining Chi Kung is very demystify. Chi Kung breathing begins with baby breathing. It was written allover in the martial arts practice but it was hidden; people are so blinded and just don't realize it. I will elaborate more on this and emphasize on the Chinese term "氣沈丹田", Sink Chi to dan tian.

Edited July 17, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

"氣沈丹田", Sink Chi to dan tian. What is the initial meaning of the phrase exactly....???

Before I go in to deep breathing, I must confine myself to some definition for consistency without inducing any other ideas to avoid confusing the issue. Please keep these definitions in mind within limits as defined for the validity of this thread. Therefore, please hold your arguments, this is strictly for the most basic fundamental conceptual explanation about Chi Kung.

1. Normal breathing is without any restriction to any special procedure but excluding the abdominal breathing.
2. The ultimate method of breathing(UMB) is inhale with the abdomen is fully expanded; and exhale with the abdomen is fully contracted.
3. Dan tian(丹田): In this thread, it was defined as the abdominal area below the navel.

The phrase "氣沈丹田(sink Chi to dan tian)" is mentioned most often by all martial artists. It is because they know the importance of breathing. So, where and when does "sink Chi to dan tian(氣沈丹田)" occurs....???

When a practitioner take a deepest breath; and it seems like that the breath was deep down to the abdomen. It was considered to be "氣沈丹田(sink Chi to dan tian)" when one inhales with the abdomen fully expanded.

Why martial arts practitioners want to have the condition of "氣沈丹田(sink Chi to dan tian)".....??? It is because that is the best time which allows the body to generated the maximum physical strength possible.

Edited July 18, 2013 by ChiDragon

[steve]

"氣沈丹田", Sink Chi to dan tian. What is the initial meaning of the phrase exactly....???

....

 

The phrase "氣沈丹田(sink Chi to dan tian)" is mentioned most often by all martial artists. It is because they know the importance of breathing. So, where and when does "sink Chi to dan tian(氣沈丹田)" occurs....???

 

When a practitioner take a deepest breath; and it seems like that the breath was deep down to the abdomen. It was considered to be "氣沈丹田(sink Chi to dan tian)" when one inhales with the abdomen fully expanded.

 

Why martial arts practitioners want to have the condition of "氣沈丹田(sink Chi to dan tian)".....??? It is because that is the best time which allows the body to generated the maximum physical strength possible.

This is simply wrong.

氣沈丹田 is a very basic nei gong technique that is used to develop skill in using the yi (mind of intent) to guide the qi to dan tian.

I would urge anyone interested in Daoist methods to find a more accurate source of information.

[ChiDragon]

氣沈丹田


This maybe a good source.

[ChiDragon]

This is simply wrong.

氣沈丹田 is a very basic nei gong technique that is used to develop skill in using the yi (mind of intent) to guide the qi to dan tian.

I would urge anyone interested in Daoist methods to find a more accurate source of information.

 

Steve.....

I am getting to a point that I cannot say who is right or wrong. You see, the character 氣(chi) is very universal but its definition is not unique. From a different point of view and depends on how it was used it has multi-definition. In the past history, the native people call most of the stuff "chi", but only in their minds know what it meant. When it translate into English, we have to find a word for it which may or maybe not fit the description of which was intended to be meant. Let's take our cases, your chi was intended to be meant "energy" or something else in your mind. I don't know. In my case, when I am talking about breathing, chi can be meant "air" or "to breathe" depends on context.

 

If I apply your definition to my scenario, then I would have to say that my "yi" is guiding my breath(氣) to the dan tian. However, I know darn well that I am not breathing energy(氣) into my lung but air(氣). Do you see the dilemma here which play tricks on us all this time.....???

 

 

Edited July 18, 2013 by ChiDragon

[steve]

 

Steve.....

I am getting to a point that I cannot say who is right or wrong. You see, the character 氣(chi) is very universal but its definition is not unique. From a different point of view and depends on how it was used it has multi-definition. In the past history, the native people call most of the stuff "chi", but only in their minds know what it meant. When it translate into English, we have to find a word for it which may or maybe not fit the description of which was intended to be meant. Let's take our cases, your chi was intended to be meant "energy" or something else in your mind. I don't know. In my case, when I am talking about breathing, chi can be meant "air" or "to breathe" depends on context.

 

If I apply your definition to my scenario, then I would have to say that my "yi" is guiding my breath(氣) to the dan tian. However, I know darn well that I am not breathing energy(氣) into my lung but air(氣). Do you see the dilemma here which play tricks on us all this time.....???

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with translating the character 氣 and it has nothing to do with guessing at what is pointed at in books.

It has to do with getting personal instruction with a lineage holder in Daoist arts and internal Chinese martial art training.

The real Daoist methods are transmitted orally by direct instruction, they are not communicated clearly in books, by design. Once you have received proper instruction and spent time developing some personal experience and skill in the methods, then the writings become transparent and it is clear what is being pointed at.

 

What you are describing is not using the Yi to guide the Qi. That is done in a very specific manner and is not dependent on the breathing process at all. It is often combined with the breathing process but not necessarily, and the two are not interchangeable. What you are doing is using visualization to breathe deeply into the Dan Tian, it is not the same as what Qi Chen Dan Tian refers to in martial arts practice. As a matter of fact, reverse abdominal breathing is often used when practicing the technique 氣沈丹田 by martial artists.

 

Your other comment:

"Why martial arts practitioners want to have the condition of "氣沈丹田(sink Chi to dan tian)".....??? It is because that is the best time which allows the body to generated the maximum physical strength possible."

...is equally erroneous. Certainly proper breathing is valuable in generating physical strength. 氣沈丹田 is used as a very basic foundation practice to provide the basis for developing internal strength.

 

Concerning Qi, when you breath air, 氣, you are also always breathing energy. If you want to look at it from the scientific paradigm (which I know you prefer), you must look at every molecule and atom of air (nitrogen, oxygen, and everything else). Why do we breath? To absorb energy for living. Air contains that energy. Each of these atoms and molecules contains enormous amounts of energy. It may be a stretch for you to accept this (and I'm not asking you to) but even the space between the molecules is imbued with energy. Energy is related to the very act of your awareness interacting with the environment. The Daoists actually have a different character for energy which is contained in air (and food, and water, and everything else that is Zi Ran) - that character is 炁. It's only found in some old Daoist texts, charms, and ceremonial writings. It's now an archaic character that is no longer in active usage other than by Daoist mystics. It clearly points to that aspect of energy that is other than simply air or the process of breathing.

 

And please do not attribute this definition to me, it is the way my teacher's lineage has passed down this information for a very long time. It is not my interpretation of writings in a book. It is a result of direct, personal instruction from a lineage holder who was born and trained in Taiwan.

 

I offer this information up mainly to alert less experienced folks on the forum that the information you are presenting here is inaccurate and based solely on your own (mis)interpretation of what you read in books, not based on a traditional Daoist lineage instruction.

[ChiDragon]

Thank you, Steve....

[ChiDragon]

"氣沈丹田", Sink Chi to dan tian. What is the initial meaning of the phrase exactly....???

 

Before I go in to deep breathing, I must confine myself to some definition for consistency without inducing any other ideas to avoid confusing the issue. Please keep these definitions in mind within limits as defined for the validity of this thread. Therefore, please hold your arguments, this is strictly for the most basic fundamental conceptual explanation about Chi Kung.

 

1. Normal breathing is without any restriction to any special procedure but excluding the abdominal breathing.

2. The ultimate method of breathing(UMB) is inhale with the abdomen is fully expanded; and exhale with the abdomen is fully contracted.

3. Dan tian(丹田): In this thread, it was defined as the abdominal area below the navel.

 

The phrase "氣沈丹田(sink Chi to dan tian)" is mentioned most often by all martial artists. It is because they know the importance of breathing. So, where and when does "sink Chi to dan tian(氣沈丹田)" occurs....???

 

When a practitioner take a deepest breath; and it seems like that the breath was deep down to the abdomen. It was considered to be "氣沈丹田(sink Chi to dan tian)" when one inhales with the abdomen fully expanded.

 

Why martial arts practitioners want to have the condition of "氣沈丹田(sink Chi to dan tian)".....??? It is because that is the best time which allows the body to generated the maximum physical strength possible.

 

Let's say I had read this somewhere and I think it make sense. Then, I put it in my own words. Please do not take it as gospel but do not defy science neither.

 

"氣沈丹田(sink Chi to dan tian)" is easily said than done. People with breathing problems cannot accomplish the former in the UMB as defined in #2. If people can only do chest breathing, then, they will have problem in doing abdominal breathing. I think it was will explained in the first video about the importance of breathing more oxygen to deliver the oxygenated blood to the body cells. It is true that we are breathing the source of energy rather than the energy from the air. The source of energy is the oxygen in the air which the body cells use to manufacture the biochemical energy which known as ATP.

 

Edited July 18, 2013 by ChiDragon