Skeleton meditation....focus point...

[joeblast]

the cutting was done on april fools day, no less, hahaha

[Mandrake]

"...but if you want to, there is a point close to your navel, between your 6th and 7th lumbar (if I remember correctly), where you can visualize a glowing point of white light"

 

I have tried and tried but for some reason this has never worked for me. Uh, I would double check that memory.

 

 

"between your 6th and 7th lumbar"

This was the part I thought he should check his memory on. This particular area I have never been able to access. HA HA

 

 

And as Ya Mu points out, wait for Mandrake to double check his anatomy to jog his memory before trying to locate that focal point, either that or he has a helluva waist!

 

Best,

 

Haha, you guys crack me up! My lack of anatomical vocabulary must be as legendary as my waist : D

I know where the point is, will check the books when I return home to see what they call it.

 

Have a good day!

Mandrake

[Mandrake]

Yeah, he probably should've clarified that sentence a little better, but once you have visualized the rib cage and spinal column: In order to further help bring the energy into the sushumna, visualizing a white glowing orb in between the rib cage and in front of the particular area of T6/T7 vertebra helps.

 

The picture in his book "Twenty-Five Doors To Meditation," shows it in that area.

Yes, that should be it. It's an addition made by Manjushri if I recall correctly. Thanks SJ!

(Nevertheless, if you happen to have an extremely long waist, the Mandrake variety asks for a white orb between the 6th and 7th ;-D )

 

 

Cheers

M

[Ya Mu]

Chenping, yes I do think it would make a difference - possibly a big difference. If the system calls for visualizing a white orb between the 6th & 7th thoracic vertebrae that is where it should be done. Many know that things are usually said for a reason when teachers/authors say do a particular thing. A person could possibly interpret "between 6th & 7th lumbar" as between S2 and S3 which is a total different location. If a person is visualizing it on a skeleton, if their visualization actually does anything at all, qi will go to that particular area. So yes, I do think it should be taken seriously. But we can have fun within the seriousness, yes?

 

Mandrake, I wasn't picking on you, just clarifying what I thought a simple mistake. I did think you meant thoracic.

Also, I have worked in-clinic on someone with 6 lumbar vertebrae. Talk about a tall dude. He certainly would have the capacity to visualize a white orb between 6th lumbar and the sacrum.

[chenping]

Chenping, yes I do think it would make a difference - possibly a big difference. If the system calls for visualizing a white orb between the 6th & 7th thoracic vertebrae that is where it should be done. Many know that things are usually said for a reason when teachers/authors say do a particular thing. A person could possibly interpret "between 6th & 7th lumbar" as between S2 and S3 which is a total different location. If a person is visualizing it on a skeleton, if their visualization actually does anything at all, qi will go to that particular area. So yes, I do think it should be taken seriously. But we can have fun within the seriousness, yes?

 

There are too many bones to confuse locating the white orb. I prefer contemplating the navel. Can't mess up here.

[寒月 Hanyue]

 

My WAIST is....

 

[寒月 Hanyue]

Regarding knowing the correct bones, well according to the meditation being discussed, as it is taught by that lineage. Then yes, you do need to know the correct bones. Why?

 

Because as was mentioned, it is not a "visualisation" that is separate from YOU. It is a tactile image to help you learn to feel your bones. So if you are visualising all kinds of numbers of spinal vertebrae or 14 toes, then it is fantasy and in your head, and not helping you become present to reality.

 

If you don't think that is important, fair enough. But Master Nan Huai Chin did, which is why he taught it that way, and why he told people to look up the anatomy.

 

Best,

[ChiForce]

I also want to add that in Bodri's blog, he mentioned that there is a focus point in this white skeleton meditation but he didn't say which one. I haven't read that much into Master Nan works to understand his method fully. I re-read Bodri Ebook last night. He briefly mentioned that some practitioners would use the center channel to help the chi to circulate, while using the white skeleton meditation technique. For some odd reason, I find it "necessary" to have a focus point because I need a point of origin or beginning point of a perspective of where and how I visualize myself as a skeleton. Even the act of visualizing using your yi consciousness, is started with your third eye. I am not imagining myself having some out of body experience and looking at myself as a skeleton from a "third person perspective." I am seeing myself as a skeleton from a first person perspective, and from the perspective of any chosen focus point (such as any chakras throughout the microcosmic orbit). I have tried my Dan Tien, Ming Ming, third eye, and recently my heart chakras. Well....I will let you know if I have made any significant progress.

[Simple_Jack]

There are too many bones to confuse locating the white orb. I prefer contemplating the navel. Can't mess up here..... I am seeing myself as a skeleton from a first person perspective, and from the perspective of any chosen focus point (such as any chakras throughout the microcosmic orbit). I have tried my Dan Tien, Ming Ming, third eye, and recently my heart chakras. Well....I will let you know if I have made any significant progress.

Even though this practice can be used to effect change on the energy body, it's not totally necessary to visualize the orb in the exact location or to even include the orb when you're first trying this meditation out. The main purpose of this practice is shamatha (which is why you dissolve the visualization at the end,) with other benefits such as cutting clinging attachment to the body. Though, once your concentration and visualization skills improve then it will be much easier to visualize an exact location of the orb.

[ChiForce]

He said the left big toe was very important. I know why but can't remember how to say it. Otherwise, it's very important. IF you sit in meditation for a while, you can feel buzzing in your left big toe which goes down some chi channel. It's really nothing to me just something I observed.

I think he was making a reference about the order in which the visualization starts, up to down or down to up. He said that the feet are the hardest energy region to open up for the chi. Also, once the chi is open up on the feet, it is easier to maintain samadhi. Yeah, I work my way from the toes to the head.

[hydrogen]

He said the left big toe was very important. I know why but can't remember how to say it. Otherwise, it's very important. IF you sit in meditation for a while, you can feel buzzing in your left big toe which goes down some chi channel. It's really nothing to me just something I observed.

 

According to Chinese reflexology, the left big toe is connected to pituitary gland, which is related with the third eye.

 

In a simple word, the skeleton meditation is just to feel every single bone in the body at same time. Or there are more to it?

Edited April 2, 2013 by hydrogen

[寒月 Hanyue]

Well the skeleton meditation is in the book, The Practice that Leads to Nibbana.

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/nibbana1.pdf

 

It talks about it in more detail.

 

Thanks for that, thats great

 

I believe the reason Bodri teaches the meditation starting from the foot (left big toe) is due to the way the qijing bamai (eight vessels) are described as to opening up in some of the old Daoist texts. This seems to be an amalgamation of the Buddhist meditation with the Daoist theory of qimai (channels). For every other version of the skeleton meditation I've seen (which is not all that many in fairness), there is no mention of it. And Bodri explains elsewhere why he describes the stages of progression in opening the qimai in the way that he does.

 

I personally like the version taught by Namgyal Rinpoche, which I have written about elsewhere on the forum. It is very similar to an exercise I got from an adept of the 'Golden light from Heaven'. It breaks the 32 body parts into three, skin-flesh-bones. Simple.

 

I have seen very grandiose expositions on the various Buddhist practices, with ever more complex and sophisticated layers of practice or discourse. Yet all the teachers that I truly respect, state things very simply and the practice as being very simple, deep, but simple. Same in Daoism and the Western school actually.

 

Best,

[Mandrake]

 

Haha, they started with the marketing already! We are shooting the film. For preorders, send money to my paypal account ; D

[Mandrake]

Regarding the famous orb and the vertebrae:

Page 24 in "Twenty-Five Doors to Meditation (William Bodri & Lee Shu-Mei), says

 

"The supreme 'Manjushri skeleton method' is another technique that tells us to especially visualize a point of light between the seventh and eighth thoracic vertebrae of the spine when doing the visualization."

[Mandrake]

A couple of points I would like to add:

 

Do not interfere with your breathing. This is quite easily done in all meditations that build on (at least) stable visualizations. Problem is that you may not notice that you are disturbing your normal breathing pattern. Have a check now and then.

Also, I've talked with Bill Bodri in the past about this meditation: the white skeleton meditation is not a feeling meditation; other traditions, such as the Daoist water meditation, may feel the bones, but in the WSM this is not the main technique. You can use all kinds of tricks in order to get a stable, and lustruous visualization of the skeleton, such as rotating lights, brushing lights, flashing, feeling etc. but in the end, you produce a complete skeleton in dazzling white light. When you increase stability, you will feel sensations and pranas moving and shifting, but do not cling or reject. The method brought you there and you should continuing focusing on the method.

 

Regarding visualization:

I started with just one bone, held it in a relaxed fashion. I used all time I could - watching movies, listening to music, subway etc. - for holding the visualization. Of course, formal practice also with sole focus on the meditation. As an aid, sometimes movies of bright lights, and of course, pictures of skeleton bones.
At first, you just visualize in the same way as you would recall mentally your girl-/boyfriend, for example. In the beginning it may just be a quite vague shape, or even a shape of space. The longer you cultivate and train, the more the light will increase, the visualization abilities heighten, until you attain a samadhi on an unwavering picture of a skeleton. The more your channels open and your qi builds, the more dazzling you can imagine the bones. In the end it approaches the experience of an increadibly vivid lucid dream. It takes time, so patience. I was not a master at visualization either. And also, don't tense the eyes.

 

Some people asked about why you start with the feet. Some excellent answers were given. I could add that Mark Griffin (hardlight) also mentions the importance of clearing the legs. It's only until that happens that you unleash the full power of the kundalini forces. Before that, you just have a trinkle flowing. There are tons of reasons, some doing with the complete opening (extremely, extremely hard to accomplish) of chakras in the chest requiring specific channels through the legs to have opened, there are karmic benefits and several others.

 

I hope this may be of some help. Good luck to all you practitioners.

 

 

Mandrake

 

 

 

(edit: typo)

Edited April 7, 2013 by Mandrake