Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts?

[Trunk]

I'm astounded that there's a debate on this topic.

... I don't even know where to begin

 

Let's see... Courses of action:

a) Destroy life around us, destroy what makes our lives possible, as well as countless species and ecosystems.

- or -

Learn to be kinder to nature. (Given that much has been destroyed already, and the momentum that we have going will destroy much more even if we do much better as fast as we can.)

 

hmmmm..., hmmm, hmmmmm...

 

Global warming is just one way that we are harming life around us. (For instance, there was a recent article at the BBC that the oceans will be effectively fished out by the middle of the century.)

 

 

(This is one debate where I don't think I could participate much without going absolutely psycho-wacko. )

 

-- later edit --

My repeated plug for any of the books of essays by Wendell Berry.

 

-- one more thing --

Some of the best things that you can do, are cost effective.

[Yi Tao]

the oceans will be effectively fished out by the middle of the century.

 

Aaaaaa! We're all going to die!

 

Name one prediction of doom and gloom that has come true. Global cooling, population bomb, scarcity of resources?

 

All you need is the government solution and you've nailed the 4 main points for an environmental debate. Wait a second, that's in the link.

[Trunk]

dao dao dao

 

It'll only drive me batty to participate in this thread.

Trunk out.

[sean]

[affenbrot]

not exactly fitting into the topic of this thread here, anyway, I found this very cool website yesterday:

www.worldmapper.org

they have tons of these morphed maps (- I had posted one some time ago in an attempt to demagogically imply some thing or other) now I really enjoyed browsing those images on that site.

[Yi Tao]

not exactly fitting into the topic of this thread here, anyway, I found this very cool website yesterday:

www.worldmapper.org

 

Very interesting. The insect infestation map really upsets me. If only we hadn't banned DDT that map would look much different and millions of people wouldn't have died. But of course, DDT was the original environmental debate (we're sure this time, it's man's fault, we're all going to die, and only government can solve it).

 

Just last year the UN publically denounced the ban because there just wasn't any valid science behind it. Millions dead, countries devastated, but at least they meant well.

[Yoda]

great map! It looks like they live longer in India than we do in the USA! Surprising.

[sean]

Via Taoist Poet

 

Unlike Global Warming, the Global Pollution Problem Is an Indisputable Truth

 

Global warming: refers to an overall increase in the Earth's temperature, which in turn causes changes in climate. A warmer Earth may lead to changes in rainfall patterns, a rise in sea level, and a wide range of impacts on plants, wildlife, and humans.

 

Global Warming: Three Main Points Of View

 

A) Views global warming as a natural event that occurs in repeating cycles every few hundred or few thousand years, that has nothing to do with human activity.

 

Views global warming as an unnatural event, caused by human activities, mostly from the burning of fossil fuels.

 

C) Views global warming as non-existent.

 

I say, instead of wasting our time debating whether or not global warming is a fact or fiction, or whether or not it's a natural phenomenon or one caused by humans, we should all be working together, especially with our political representatives, to address the very serious environmental problems that are NOT up for debate, like pollution.

 

Whether or not the burning of fossil fuels are to blame for global warming, no one can deny the fact that the burning of fossil fuels is causing an unhealthy level of pollution, affecting all levels of life in our land, air and sea. Pollution is NOT up for debate, nor are the health problems associated with it. We should be addressing THIS. Read more

[Yoda]

I hate to keep being so positive about everything... but pollution is in the past. The next to the last issue of Popular Mechanics called this to my attention...

 

Thanks to plasma beam technology (like in Ghost Busters) now it's possible to incinerate anything short of uranium, yielding a tremendous amount of electrical and gas energy and harmless, compact glass-like byproducts.

 

The first commercial units will go online within the next several years in Florida and Panama... Not only will they shut down their landfills, they'll set up the plants near the landfills and empty them out. Best of all, the units are absolutely free to the respective governments... it's all owner financing for the income from the energy generation. So every municipality on the planet will be able to afford one.

 

Yoda

[Yoda]

here's the article:

 

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/873aa...ecbccdrcrd.html

[sean]

I hate to keep being so positive about everything... but pollution is in the past.

Godammit Yoda, will you please get stressed out and paranoid about SOMETHING!? Just google "doomsday scenarios" please. You are starting to make us look bad.

[Yoda]

I just tried the google angle. All I got was some handy UFO info and an ad asking my opinion if Brittany Spears is losing her shit. Last I heard on the subject was that she was caught on tape having sex with two women and based on that might renounce her rights as a mother. Surmising the contents of the tape, one can only imagine that she'd make an excellent mother.

[Yi Tao]

no one can deny the fact that the burning of fossil fuels is causing an unhealthy level of pollution, affecting all levels of life in our land, air and sea.

 

I deny that burning fossil fuels is causing an unhealthy level of pollution! All of life is a trade off. You can live to 80 with pollution or you can live to 40 without pollution. You pick. Before the internal combustion engine, life was hard and life was short.

 

But even that isn't a fair comparison because you can not compare reality to a dream. Life without fossil fuels was ugly and unsanitary. Imagine life without refrigeration, without plumbing. Imagine a city where horses are the main form of transportation. Rotten food, poop all over the streets, and who knows what else. Why don't you consider that pollution?

 

You can imagine that it might have been possible to skip the step of fossil fuels and go right to paradise, but it wasn't and it isn't. Life is a trade off.

 

You can condemn anything if you ignore the positives. Name any surgery that makes sense if you only focus on the negative? Why have brain surgery when you can have magic? You can not compare reality to a dream.

[Pietro]

here's the article:

 

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/873aa...ecbccdrcrd.html

 

Sounds interesting. And I haven't read it all, yet.

[why the hell do I comment then? because I am so busy in this sunday in which I can finally bring on my projects that I don't see myself reading it all in the immediate future)

 

In italy there is a lot of discussion going on. Mainly sparked by a 'comedian' Beppe Grillo. Number 1 blogger in Italy, who uses irony and fun to bring on important political point, and expose lies of politicians and corporations.

 

He is making a huge was against 'inceneritori' (burners?). Some sort of heaters where you dump the garbage and heat comes out. ..

and micro powder. All the trash being converted into a very polluting powder dispersed int he atmosphere. Too thin to be detected by the law, it has been observed entering in the cells of living organism. Causing DNA mutations, and birth defects.

 

The scientists who were studying this got sacked, and Beppe made asked for money through his blog and bought them a new powerful microscope to continue their work.

 

Maybe if you heat things hot enough you might just make simple particles. But we are star powder. The carbon molecules that form us are coming from the combustion of the first generations of star (please correct me if I'm wrong). So heat by itself seems to make complex atoms more than simple ones.

 

I hope this invention is truly revolutionary and does not leave a gas that is so thin not to be detected... until it is too late.

[Yoda]

Why don't you consider that pollution?

 

 

Good point... cars were a huge revolution in pollution reduction. It won't be too long before the next revolution. Technology is really cookin these days like never before. Alternative energy will come.

 

P- yes, this is different from current incinerators.