LGBTS, Taobums, and our opinions regarding the topic.

[Sanzon]

I dont believe religious organizations own the term marriage. It is a legal commitment, most commonly brought about by two peoples love & commitment to one another. Sure civil unions are ok by you, but what about marriage?

[eye_of_the_storm]

I think just to separate the religious and the secular...

These are just definitions however...

they are both a union.

[Sanzon]

Ok, if you find it easier due to terminology, a gay secular marriage then.

 

Look, I am giving you a hard time here. It's ok to say no, you're not into it. You don't have to be. I am giving you a hard time because you have posted 100 references to make your point, which I for one am still not exactly clear on.

 

I have done a Masters degree & pulled apart my fair share of research, methodology & data analysis. You have challenged others to prove you wrong, & I ask, out of your own integrity, have you personally analysed all the research and made objective comparisons with other research, contradictory findings & anomalies? Perhaps you have just searched for and found research to back up your own perspectives. I am not up for the task personally. Some interesting points sure, but the context it has been presented in has been challenging to say the least. Keep posting if youre up for further exploration of this topic. It is good though to work it all through to separate & clarify what are the issues for you minus the negativity.

 

Signing out for now. Skyrim calls.

[gatito]

Very civilised thread so-far

 

Let's hope it stays that way

[eye_of_the_storm]

I really don't wish to spend the next 6 months on this... ahahaha

All the best on your travels!

[gatito]

Thanks WWROA

 

I'll certainly check-in from time-to-time my friend

[thelerner]

 

 

Prove me wrong and will happily remove all I have posted.

You're kidding me right. Can you even recognize a hate filled conspiracy nut job site when your on it? You highlighted and posted from JettandJahn.com, you don't see them as rascist extremists?? Come on.. they're a fuckin Klan porn site.

 

A quick perusal- An article on The Definitive Nigga Song, an article on Jackie giving a blow job to Martin Luthor King during JFK's funeral, I could go on, its racist, antisemitic, paranoid and lunatic. It makes right wing mouth pieces like Rush or Beck look like choir boys. People who believe and support it imo are not good people in my book.

 

addon: I'll give you that most of your highlighted websites are from far right leaning, moral majority type places and aren't as blatantly crazy paranoid racist as the Jett site.

Edited February 10, 2013 by thelerner

[Mal]

 

Often the best we can do is state our truth and walk away.

 

 

What is meant by a “true man”?

The true men of old were not afraid

When they stood alone in their views.

No great exploits. No Plans.

If they failed, no sorrow.

No self-congratulation in success.

They scaled cliffs, never dizzy,

Plunged in water, never wet,

Walked through fire and were not burnt.

Thus their knowledge reached all the way

To Tao.

 

The true men of old

Slept without dreams,

Woke without worries.

Their food was plain.

They breathed deep.

True men breathe from their heels.

Others breathe with their gullets,

Half strangled. In dispute

They heave up arguments

Like vomit.

Where the fountains of passion

Lie deep

The heavenly springs

Are soon dry.

 

The true men of old

Knew no lust for life,

No dread of death.

Their entrance was without gladness,

Their exit, yonder,

Without resistance.

Easy come, easy go.

They did not forget where from,

Nor ask where to,

Nor drive grimly forward

Fighting their way through life.

They took life as it came, gladly;

Took death as it came, without care;

And went away, yonder,

Yonder!

 

They had no mind to fight Tao.

They did not try, by their own contriving,

To help Tao along.

These are the ones we call true men.

 

Minds free, thoughts gone

Brows clear, faces serene.

Were they cool? Only cool as autumn.

Were they hot? No hotter than spring.

All that came out of them

Came quiet, like the four seasons.

 

[VI. I] The Way Of Chuang Tzu - trans. Thomas Merton

[Sanzon]

WWROA, the fact that you are still laughing about this issue is another testament to your character. You can think what you like, and hold whatever opinions you care to, no problem there. Its in the delivery. One reference to make each of your points, sure. 100 references and I am thinking there is some serious fucking issues going on here.

 

I dont know you. You may have a very human reason for feeling as you do. For example, your brother may have been sexually & violently abused as a child by an adult male, and 20 years later committed suicide by throwing himself off a cliff as you were standing next to him trying to reassure him & reason with him not to. As a result, the feelings and input you have presented here have their basis in that experience. I would feel great compassion & empathy towards you, even with your posts, if that were the case.

 

You dont know me either, though I, or any other member, for example, may be gay and suffered lifelong ostracising from my family and the society I live in & also suffered brutal violence as a consequence of this predisposition at the hands of people who think similar ideas as you do. As a result, I may take great offence to your posts, and percieve your "statement of facts" as hate speech. I may simply be an average Joe in an average life, and read your posts & think you have an enormous amount of hatred to be able to present 100 references about the negative aspects of homosexuality, while none supporting or embracing it.

 

Here is a fact worth considering. You are probably surrounded by LGBTI people & just dont know it. You have probably been influenced by the ideas, ideals & philosophy of LGBTI people & just dont know it. You probably like & have been entertained by LGBTI people & just dont know it.

 

While the Kinsey report is dated, its notions still stand. 37% of males have had at least one instance of same-sex experience to orgasm http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/research/ak-data.html#homosexuality. A surfing magazine here took a poll a few years back, & with the readership being teens & upward, 10% responded as having had, currently having, or being open to same sex experience.

 

My point? Its pretty common & normal human behaviour from my perspective, whether you are comfortable with it or not. I pray this information doesnt make you paranoid, and humour tells me that if this is the case, you better watch your backside.

 

Its just a quick google search as opposed to your dedicated efforts in researching your ideas, but here is a start on realising how LGBTI people may have influenced many areas of your life, without you knowing it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gay,_lesbian_or_bisexual_people

 

My point? Look at how diverse this range of people is. Sexual orientation is one of a million facets of a human being & their inclinations. Some of these people have been very influential in society and have achieved high levels of attainment in their fields.

 

The issues here for me are human rights & inclusiveness, and to include a positive spin on your posts & references, social & public health. Please feel free to comment. For the record, and as encouragement and solidarity to all LGBTI people, the statement below is where I stand. It is an exciting time in history, and like the civil rights movements, I look forward to seeing perpectives, laws and attitudes in society change within my lifetime.

 

I really don't wish to spend the next 6 months on this... ahahaha

Edited February 11, 2013 by Sanzon