how important is "semen retention" in your practice?

[resonant111]

There seems to be a lot of differing views on this. some people make retention the foundation of their practice, avoiding release altogether or trying to limit it as much as possible. Other people think it's important, but that it's ok to release at certain intervals. Others say it's not necessary at all, that one can release as much as they desire.

 

How important is retention/sublimation in your own practice? I've varied between all of these, including the extremes of "never releasing" and "releasing as much as i want." I'm starting to think that moderation might be the most natural path (releasing 1-2x a week) but i'd like to hear what others think.

 

This "retention" concept has so many different viewpoints, it's hard to figure out which practice is the most healthy.

 

edit: i suppose whether or not one has a partner plays a factor in this as well. i currently do not, so retention feels almost like repression alot of times.

Edited August 12, 2012 by resonant111

[Fū Yue]

I think that the very idea of 'retaining semen' is based on faulty premises in the first place. The idea is not really related to physical sex, since one is supposed to be building a world-view where 'everything is consciousness' (for most people doing things like this) it's not the 'semen' that gets returned, but your own creative force, your inner light. The entire body, being consciousness itself, lusts after the union of male and female, so it's not based on keeping the 'semen in the container' but rather making love within your entire body, consciousness, mind, the whole universe, whatever, rather than projecting that energy 'outside'. So the concept that there is anything to 'squirt into' or 'release' is just flawed in the first place. If it is not a natural result of your practices and realizations, it's not for you.

 

If the sexual energy is manifested, it should still be consummated, just in a different way. The greatest consort is the heart.

[resonant111]

thanks, that post is very eye opening. what i take from it is that it's more important to cultivate love/bliss within oneself rather than simply "retaining" a sexual substance for the sake of "not releasing it" or whatever.

 

since "everything is consciousness" as you say, the inner and outer are already one...both are composed of the same living, vibratory essence if you will. The division between release/retaining is resolved as there really is no difference between the outside and inside anyway.

 

at least that's one way of seeing it.

Edited August 12, 2012 by resonant111

[thetaoiseasy]

I catch your drift. You like things to be sorted out in a cut and dry method, and you're struggling to get a clear cut answer. So I'll help you out.

 

Answer me this. What are your goals? Which one is closer to your wishes?

 

1. full out energetic and spiritual practice?

2. energetic practices, but not full out. I still want to enjoy life, so to speak.

3. i just want to be normal and healthy.

4. I really don't care. Just want to live life.

Edited August 12, 2012 by thetaoiseasy

[resonant111]

I catch your drift. You like things to be sorted out in a cut and dry method, and you're struggling to get a clear cut answer. So I'll help you out.

 

Answer me this. What are your goals? Which one is closer to your wishes?

 

1. full out energetic and spiritual practice?

2. energetic practices, but not full out. I still want to enjoy life, so to speak.

3. i just want to be normal and healthy.

4. I really don't care. Just want to live life.

 

ahh, that's the catch. it's like my wishes are constantly changing. i'll take off down the path of "full out energetic and spiritual practice" but if i fail or don't feel enough progress i'll think "this is a waste of time, why not just be normal and healthy." Then it's like my worldview totally changes and my priorities shift once again.

 

but at this point, i dunno. i'd say number 2 fits me best..."want to work with energetic practices, but not full out...still enjoy 'normal' life" if you will.

 

i think spiritual practices are important, but sometimes they can just get in the way of living and enjoying life. I think "semen retention" is a prime example...there's so many conflicting views on it that it can just become confusing in the end. You just get lost in the theory and lose any potential magic from the practice.

[thetaoiseasy]

So let's assume number 2.

 

The answer is so simple. Follow your natural sex cycle. That is, release (masturbate, sex, whatever) when your lower centers are neturally full -- aka when you get a spontaneous erection at night or in the morning, or when you just feel congested. If you release when you're naturally full, you're body doesn't take such a strong hit.

 

This means no artificial and deliberate visual and auditory stimulation like porn -- you have to dump that shit in the trash. This also means no fiddling around in the shower or in your room just because you are "bored." This means avoiding too much ejaculation when you're feeling sick or worn out.

 

So the solution is right in front of you. But people always want to do something special like clenching their anal muscles and fists while rolling their eyeballs to the ceiling. Those practices are for old men who already depleted themselves.

 

You are still young. Just prepare for a long life and live naturally, for now. You'll find that by living more naturally you're desires will also temper.

 

Read some good books like the Tao Te Ching. Do the exercise that I suggested in the other thread with the wings flapping. And if you feel like your mind is feeding unnatural desires to your body, place your palms together like you're praying in front of your chest. And gently concentrate at the point between your two nipples for a few minutes. The negative feeling will pass.

 

Masturbation isn't the end of the world, nor a sin. But not respecting your personal energetic cycles will always be a problem.

Edited August 12, 2012 by thetaoiseasy

[Christian]

Horse's Hooves by Chuang Tzu

 

Horses can with their hoofs tread on the hoarfrost and snow, and with their hair withstand the wind and cold; they feed on the grass and drink water; they prance with their legs and leap:- this is the true nature of horses. Though there were made for them grand towers and large dormitories, they would prefer not to use them. But when Po-lâo (arose and) said, "I know well how to manage horses," (men proceeded) to singe and mark them, to clip their hair, to pare their hoofs, to halter their heads, to bridle them and hobble them, and to confine them in stables and corrals. (When subjected to this treatment), two or three in every ten of them died. (Men proceeded further) to subject them to hunger and thirst, to gallop them and race them, and to make them go together in regular order. In front were the evils of the bit and ornamented breastbands, and behind were the terrors of the whip and switch. (When so treated), more than half of them died.

 

...

 

Do you get why I posted this story?

[resonant111]

thank you for your response taoiseasy, it's practical and makes perfect sense. the "visual stimulation" has always been a problem of mine and i'm going to try and do away with it for good.

 

as for your story christian, i suppose you posted it because it symbolizes how man has taken a naturally beautiful creature out of it's natural habitat and has domesticated it through techniques of control, confinement and order.

 

are you saying forced retention is like taking a horse out of it's natural habitat?

[konchog uma]

not my horse lol

 

i retain because...

1. it makes sex better for me and for her

2. my belly hums and my whole body gets charged after 2 weeks

3. creativity and imagination benefit

4. my natural energy soars

5. i like the challenge of self-mastery

 

i don't force it though, when i want to ejaculate, i do, but thats usually about once every month or two. Forced retention is a recipe for a headache and worse, but natural retention is a wonderful practice

[resonant111]

not my horse lol

 

i retain because...

1. it makes sex better for me and for her

2. my belly hums and my whole body gets charged after 2 weeks

3. creativity and imagination benefit

4. my natural energy soars

5. i like the challenge of self-mastery

 

i don't force it though, when i want to ejaculate, i do, but thats usually about once every month or two. Forced retention is a recipe for a headache and worse, but natural retention is a wonderful practice

 

yea it seems like everyone who succeeds with retention has a partner to work with.

 

if one is single, retention can be almost detrimental it seems, as there is no physical sexual outlet other than masturbation. being "celibate" is kind of unnatural in my own experience...

[Sifu ReL]

There seems to be a lot of differing views on this. some people make retention the foundation of their practice, avoiding release altogether or trying to limit it as much as possible. Other people think it's important, but that it's ok to release at certain intervals. Others say it's not necessary at all, that one can release as much as they desire.

 

How important is retention/sublimation in your own practice? I've varied between all of these, including the extremes of "never releasing" and "releasing as much as i want." I'm starting to think that moderation might be the most natural path (releasing 1-2x a week) but i'd like to hear what others think.

 

This "retention" concept has so many different viewpoints, it's hard to figure out which practice is the most healthy.

 

edit: i suppose whether or not one has a partner plays a factor in this as well. i currently do not, so retention feels almost like repression alot of times.

 

 

awhile ago, i would argue this to death saying that you can release all you want...then i reach a new level in my Nei gong Practice.....after a while i retain alot of energy, then one day i got some head and busted a nut....to my suprise, Really suprise and sadley to say i loss alot of chi power....so i would say in the beginning it dont matter, could speed up your process in building your chi if you dont....but over all i'd say if you ejaculate and you dont feel different then it dont matter but one day its gonna feel like you loss a little piece of yourself lolz sperm.

[Jetsun]

Not very important, in nature if fluid becomes stagnant it becomes toxic so its probably the same in your body.

[Christian]

Maybe some more...

 

Horses, when living in the open country, eat the grass, and drink water; when pleased, they intertwine their necks and rub one another; when enraged, they turn back to back and kick one another;- this is all that they know to do. But if we put the yoke on their necks, with the moonlike frontlet displayed on all their foreheads, then they know to look slily askance, to curve their necks, to rush viciously, trying to get the bit out of their mouths, and to filch the reins (from their driver); this knowledge of the horse and its ability thus to act the part of a thief is the crime of Po-lâo. In the time of (the Ti) Ho-hsü, the people occupied their dwellings without knowing what they were doing, and walked out without knowing where they were going. They filled their mouths with food and were glad; they slapped their stomachs to express their satisfaction. This was all the ability which they possessed. But when the sagely men appeared, with their bendings and stoppings in ceremonies and music to adjust the persons of all, and hanging up their benevolence and righteousness to excite the endeavours of all to reach them, in order to comfort their minds, then the people began to stump and limp about in their love of knowledge, and strove with one another in their pursuit of gain, so that there was no stopping them:- this was the error of those sagely men.

[konchog uma]

Not very important, in nature if fluid becomes stagnant it becomes toxic so its probably the same in your body.

 

Seth was saying that amish who were celibate had problems with rotten semen (ick) but for those that practice sublimation into qi/shen, or who circulate their energy in their bodies, there was no problem. I found that interesting.

 

So you are right, or could be, but the point of retention isn't stagnation, its circulation and sublimation

[konchog uma]

yea it seems like everyone who succeeds with retention has a partner to work with.

 

if one is single, retention can be almost detrimental it seems, as there is no physical sexual outlet other than masturbation. being "celibate" is kind of unnatural in my own experience...

 

having a partner and engaging in retention practices is like having your cake and eating it too, i recommend trying it to anyone (just be sure to take care of your prostate! lol)

 

yeah, celibacy without proper technique is completely unnatural, i agree. I would go so far as to say its completely insane.

 

But if one has the techniques required to boost their spiritual and energetic practices, it can be perfectly natural to decide that ones own evolution and growth is more important than busting nuts or having a sexual partner. I mean, from a certain point of view, that of the serious and educated practitioner, it makes a lot of sense. Or for the monastic, where there aren't TV shows billboards and magazines constantly bombarding them with sexsexsex it can make a lot of sense too. But for the ordinary layperson living in society, its a pretty hardcore choice that involves a lot of conflicts of interest. The mind becomes pulled strongly in two directions, which is always uncomfortable. If a person is going to enhance their spiritual practice with celibacy, its best to commit to that completely, not just as a practice, but as a lifestyle, and without likeminded people to surround themselves with, and practices that take that energy and make their lives better with it, and turning their back on the world of sensory indulgence, most people usually go a little crazy and then decide that celibacy is for losers.

 

Celibacy is like anything else, a lifestyle choice that comes along with its rewards, consequences, and attendant ups and downs. But to channel the lifeforce up and within from the loins instead of down and out is perfectly natural as an impulse. The body is even hardwired to store it in the upper centers and make soma out of it, so the option is obviously natural from that standpoint.

[konchog uma]

resonant111, are you a 7 Road? ive been meaning to ask you

 

i love the tzolkin

[Brian]

I didn't respond to the poll because it is at cross-purposes. It simultaneously asks whether retention is important and for quantification. Retention is not important to me at all and I therefore pay no attention to retention durations (and, subsequently, to frequency...)