Wayfarer64

Taoists: Chicken-out !

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A tasty bit of news to chew over...

 

The Independent reported that KFC ran ads featuring an aging Taoist monk who proclaimed their new chicken burger a "masterpiece." The ad brought anger as the monk represents Fu Qingzhu, who, in the 17th century, helped defend China against foreign invaders.

 

Taoists, many of whom are vegetarians, have made fun of the ad.

 

The Independent reported that as Western culture grows, the Chinese have been trying hard to preserve their own language and culture.

 

Foreign companies are accused of disrespecting Chinese culture as they move into the world's fastest-growing economy, the newspaper said.

 

What would Popeye's do?

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A tasty bit of news to chew over...

 

The Independent reported that KFC ran ads featuring an aging Taoist monk who proclaimed their new chicken burger a "masterpiece." The ad brought anger as the monk represents Fu Qingzhu, who, in the 17th century, helped defend China against foreign invaders.

 

Taoists, many of whom are vegetarians, have made fun of the ad.

 

The Independent reported that as Western culture grows, the Chinese have been trying hard to preserve their own language and culture.

 

Foreign companies are accused of disrespecting Chinese culture as they move into the world's fastest-growing economy, the newspaper said.

 

What would Popeye's do?

 

 

I find that the chinese are not doing anything to preserve their culture. I have seen that ad, laughed at the ignorance of the makers of it and the people of this country for airing it. If they wanted to preserve their culture so much, they would begin with wearing their own style clothing, build their own style buildings, and realize that once a way of living is viewed as something to preserve, it is already almost gone.

They have done just the opposite. For example, push for the enlgish language to be one of the most important classes in school, act, talk and do things western(and they have people who teach this to make a living), incorporate habits of westerners, in mannerisms of shopping, spending money, living style, eating, speech, the list goes on.

While there are cultural preservation centers, it is just that...a center and nothing more. THough they boast their "great" culture during holidays, it is in the background when there isn't a holiday. When there is a foreigner with several chinese people siting for dinner, the chinese boast on how they have a food culture, wine culture and even a smoking culture (like that is somehtin got be proud of..if there was something to be proud of in the first place.)

 

The environment has changed from Chinese style and mannerism, to wester style and mannerism. People spend loads of money going to KFC thinking it is a luxury, while they suffer from health problems and their children are getting fatter.

 

The ad for KFC had to pass government approval before being aired. So, it also says that they wish to water down the "purity" of the images of Daoism, or any cultivation practice in order to steer people out of the path of self cultivation. Just to shed some light on this; Daoism is the #1 repressed "religion" , and the most repressed, in China.

I teach in a school where, more than 5 occasions, have my students declared their undying hatred for the japanese, and how they wish to kill each and everyone of them...in detail. So.. you can see where this country is going. Students are being taught that tradition is past, and modern , new , western things are now, and must be adhered to fully... as well as being taught to hate!

 

Like I said, if they wanted cultural preservation, it would be nation wide, and it isn't happening. Out of 100 Chinese people, maybe one would be wearing traditional chinese style clothing. Out of 20 people, about 5-7 people will not recognize their own cultural clothing.

Out of 1,000 people, atleast 85-95% will believe that anyone seen wearing chinese clothing must be a Buddhist or a Daoist monk...especially if a foreigner wears it, the foreigner must be in love with the culture, or be a monk or something. Noone seems to thikn that he/she is just wearing it to cover their body.

How sad that the majority will not think that a person will just wish to wear traditional clothing for no other reason than covering their body.

I have stories. I still live out here.

Though their mannerisms are distinct from those of the west, it is changing. The good of the culture is being diluted, and the bad of the culture is being emphasized.

 

Peace,

Edited by 林愛偉

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When I was in China KFC was the rage.

The chinese are becoming overweight and suffering from

diseases which were unusual before they fell in love with

ourway of life.

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There is also the fact that most of the goods that are staples of the western commercial culture are made in China. In that light almost every object I have is Chinese! The fact that many, many Chinese people manufacture Western goods for most of their waking hours must have some sort of influence.

Add some clever marketing and poof! The money starts flowing and the culture is destroyed.

From what little I know about the Chinese society it seems much more collectivist as opposed to our individualist society. It is no wonder that a little mass marketing would have a huge affect on this type of culture.

Not to say that Chinese are easily duped, but as it has been said here, they aren't as jaded by advertising as we are.

Now who is to blame? Are the ad agencies to blame? Is Globalism to blame? Are the Chinese people to blame? Are Westerners to blame? It is impossible to really blame or put your finger on the root of this pathology.

 

It is also an interesting paradox that our individualism and general distrust for authority is what shows us there is more to life than the superficial and yet that these traits also keeps us locked out of real Taoist traditions much of the time.

 

I may be playing Devil's Advocate a bit here, but ultimately I wonder if it is healthy to criticize this type of cultural change? The old adage is "The only thing that doesn't change is that everything changes." Right?

What if genocide, ethnocide, globalism, commercialism, etc are the "Will of Heaven?" What if indeed these are all steps in the global realization of human potential?

 

If you think about it should people in Germany be wearing Liederhosen? Should people in North America be wearing deerskins and moccasins?

Genetic evolution keeps the traits that are best suited for the environment in a specific period of time and tosses traits that aren't? Does this apply to cultural evolution as well? As above so below?

 

Again I am just presenting another way of perceiving the situation. I don't necessarily adopt this line of thinking as my own. I don't know that I ultimately have an opinion or value judgement on matters of cultural change. I think I do sometimes but in reality I think it is what it is and it will change again and again and again... Sometimes I grimace at the changes and try to fight it but who am I to say what change is best for humanity?

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Well, in an ultimate sense everything that happens "should" simply because it is happening and inseparable from Tao which is "good" and "right" in the highest sense. And also this universal "okness" would naturally include our various grumblings and strivings to tip the universe in the direction we prefer, since these thoughts and strivings are also inseparable expressions of Tao. In other words, it's all good even when it's really really so truly bad involvement in trying to make things change arises. :)

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From an ultimate point of view, it's probably correct to say it isn't "all good" or "bad", it just IS.

 

From the ego's standpoint, we all have our personal preferences of how we want things to be. Hell, even Adya likes his coffee a certain way, you want to design a t shirt that you can wear out to Bay Area bars that says "I would rather be meditating" on it. I like expensive teas.etc etc.

 

But maybe all those so called "ego" preferences are all just "What is" to? Ohhhhhhhh..

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From an ultimate point of view, it's probably correct to say it isn't "all good" or "bad", it just IS.

 

From the ego's standpoint, we all have our personal preferences of how we want things to be. Hell, even Adya likes his coffee a certain way, you want to design a t shirt that you can wear out to Bay Area bars that says "I would rather be meditating" on it. I like expensive teas.etc etc.

 

But maybe all those so called "ego" preferences are all just "What is" to? Ohhhhhhhh..

Yes, this What Is, is what I meant by good in the highest sense. It's not a dualistic good that is conditional or relative to an egoic sense of good and bad, and yet still there is a sense in which It can be said to be good and not bad. The modern mind seems to enjoy creating an intellectual postmodernism out of the wisdom traditions, and yet this is just another subtle mind game that has nothing to do with reality. There are no fixed perceptual positions, and this is so inconceivable to the mind, that it instantly snatches "there are no fixed perceptual positions" and turns it into a fixed perceptual position. Until this is seen through and we just smile knowingly all the way through our bizarre new attempts at grasping. :)

 

Sean

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Yeah...that holding onto a concept that you shouldn't hold onto concepts thing.

 

Real knowing or realization or whatever language we care to use is all what is . Sailor Bob said you don't have to discard concepts but just understand they are concepts. You don't need to cling to any of them. Emotions about people, money or whatever still come up. Attraction to people or teachers may come..or not. It's all still what is and in the present moment there is no holding on to anything. It comes and goes.

 

What's that first passage of Tao Te Ching again? ;)

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Listening to it right now :)

 

My Mom and I are probably going to visit Australia in 2008. Apparently the Pope is coming then. I told her the day you go see the Pope Ime going to see this guy in Melbourne.

 

I think him and Adya are a nice balance of expressions on the same truth of what is

 

Hey..can we trademark the term what is like some people we know do? :P

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This has become a better thread than I hoped...I gotta add my 2 cents again...

 

It seems that what many of us value most and stake our hopes & desires on is a futuristic something we know of -yet do not have. Spirit having a human experience has taken on so many forms...

 

Materialistic folks seek that which gives them the trappings of wealth. Spiritual seekers hope to attain their goals of cultivation and attainment. There are as many inner goals as outer goals. They are in many ways the same impulse but sustained by different values.

 

The modern Chinese coveting western ways is sad on several levels, but pretty "normal" historically...The ancient Romans had an Egyptian fad going strong when Cleo came to visit...There were alot of young European & Amercan ladies in saris during the 60's...Fads can be fun, and some may even help to break-down cultural barriers. But losing the original culture is always that-a loss...

 

The exotic has often had value in every society. That is how Manhattan got "traded" for a box of trinkets...Native Americans were not alone in giving up real value for empty glitter & sparkle, and conversly the amazing artestry of Incan and Aztec gold was melted down for easy transport-since the value of gold was beyond the assumed value of the cultural expression...

 

Very few values are universal. Some admire youth over age some age before beauty, some value the earth as our mother and others just see a natural vista as potential mineral rights and a forest as so many board feet of lumber...

 

Taoist values are not very materialistic. Humility in a steadfast devotion to being of use and furthering all of life's creative potentials is basic. Trendy likes and dislikes are as a leaf in the wind...Some may hold our interest as a gleaming red or orange leaf may do - flashing by on the wind. Satori and epiphany also give our attentions a new way to see and if the insight sticks- a new way to be.

 

Our lives change so often in modern times compared to early people, that there is little many of us can expect to hold true through time...except change...

 

Customs change a lot anyway -the people in western nations no longer wear hoop-skirts or tri-corner hats or leggings etc...Nor togas going farther back... Weather dictates much of costume and custom. So we can just expect the unexpected.

 

So many cultures are disappearing and becoming "modern" that it can't be long before most diversity is lost. This is very sad to me - even cultures within cultures can be precious and sorely missed. I for one would have liked to visit the ancient tantric society of Goa, or the plains-indians of 18th century North America - when they had the horse but Europeans were few...

 

So I guess I like to glean what I can from those past cultures I admire- realize the traits that meant something to them-And then try to live in the here and now with honesty and compassion and humility and vigor for the day to day to be lived fully and with heart.

 

The new in exciting-and like the joke goes-its only kinky the first time...We like change in most of its' forms.

 

But I tend to avoid "fast food" as a rule. Oddly enogh -one of the few McDs' burgers I ever ate was in Hong Kong 1979! I'd been in Indonesia's outer-islands for a few months & hadn't had any red meat and just wanted a hamburger- It made me feel terrible as if a wad of fat had lodged in my stomach...Dining with American children has forced me to eat a few more Mcd's products- I am not a fan...KFC is little better but it doesn't make me ill. The two or three BKs I ate were tasty-as they were grilled- but also made me feel ill...

I am just not very Americanized in my eating habits, 'cept that I do eat red meat now-more than I used to... just a bad habit -& that too will change-

Namaste-Pat

Edited by Wayfarer64

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We may have to ask Bill Clinton to define is again for us...What is may be beyond any politician's scope...They would feel much to pinned down by that quandry...

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The feeling of being pinned down would be what is

 

This can go forever..we better Stop

 

*Nods at correct use of Advaita lingo*

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Listening to it right now :)

 

My Mom and I are probably going to visit Australia in 2008. Apparently the Pope is coming then. I told her the day you go see the Pope Ime going to see this guy in Melbourne.

 

I think him and Adya are a nice balance of expressions on the same truth of what is

 

Hey..can we trademark the term what is like some people we know do? :P

 

hey Camo (aussie slang) when the time gets closer to your trip to oz, let me know and when you come i'll show you around melbourne's surrounds, and we'll go to sailor Bob

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We have to look at this statement.... : Will Of Heaven.

 

What Heaven are we talking about?

 

There are many heavens out there... one's that hold good beings, and virtuaous one, and those which host the not so nice ones called demons, and such.

 

So the will of which heaven is the question.

 

Dao is the label of a manner inwhich mind is without duality. Once there is discriminating thought, there is yin and yang, form. One cannot say that because they understad Yin and Yang, they attain Dao. It is when one detaches, not merges, from Yin and Yang, thought and no thought, form and no form, that one gets closer.

It is the myriad things which lead one further away, not the balance of it. Because for there tobe a blance, there must be a thought of there being an imbalance, and thus, there will be the thought to cause a balance.

 

THe changes in the world are changes yes. And ofcourse one has their own views on how the world shoud be.

Yet, when obvious changes occur that are only of one sided influence, ther seems to be a shadow of ignorance cast about the country being influenced.

 

Not to say all western influence is bad, or good, but when one literally takes everyhtin gout of their house and thorw it away because a guest decides they don't like it too much.. there is obviously something in the mind of the house owner that is not clear.

 

China is changing...fast. And the good manner of culture that westerners see from movies such as personal behaviour, virtue, moral, and self worth are actually replaced by gred, anger, ingorance, and more of it in many shapes and sizes.

 

One can call it the will of heaven. But I say , if this is the will of heaven, the Being incharge should be removed. It is as such.. Earth is a mes, and so it is the same in Heaven. THe only paradise is of mind, and that is where the heavens are created.

 

There isn't just one overall heaven and it isn't incharge, and the flowing of Dao isn't flowing at all. The myriad things are what flows, it is Dao which they derive from, and it is mind which is Dao. Yet it isn't and it is not isn't.

 

"Attaining" isn't the end result, and even though this discussion was originally about KFC, the manner inwhich it was perceived has risen from the mudd and is now the profound. hahahahah

 

A very good thread indeed!

 

Peace,

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We have to look at this statement.... : Will Of Heaven.

 

What Heaven are we talking about?

 

So the will of which heaven is the question.

 

Dao is the label of a manner inwhich mind is without duality. Once there is discriminating thought, there is yin and yang, form. One cannot say that because they understad Yin and Yang, they attain Dao. It is when one detaches, not merges, from Yin and Yang, thought and no thought, form and no form, that one gets closer.

It is the myriad things which lead one further away, not the balance of it. Because for there tobe a blance, there must be a thought of there being an imbalance, and thus, there will be the thought to cause a balance.

 

THe changes in the world are changes yes. And ofcourse one has their own views on how the world shoud be.

Yet, when obvious changes occur that are only of one sided influence, ther seems to be a shadow of ignorance cast about the country being influenced.

 

Not to say all western influence is bad, or good, but when one literally takes everyhtin gout of their house and thorw it away because a guest decides they don't like it too much.. there is obviously something in the mind of the house owner that is not clear.

 

China is changing...fast. And the good manner of culture that westerners see from movies such as personal behaviour, virtue, moral, and self worth are actually replaced by gred, anger, ingorance, and more of it in many shapes and sizes.

 

One can call it the will of heaven. But I say , if this is the will of heaven, the Being incharge should be removed. It is as such.. Earth is a mes, and so it is the same in Heaven. THe only paradise is of mind, and that is where the heavens are created.

 

There isn't just one overall heaven and it isn't incharge, and the flowing of Dao isn't flowing at all. The myriad things are what flows, it is Dao which they derive from, and it is mind which is Dao. Yet it isn't and it is not isn't.

 

"Attaining" isn't the end result, and even though this discussion was originally about KFC, the manner inwhich it was perceived has risen from the mudd and is now the profound. hahahahah

 

A very good thread indeed!

 

Peace,

 

 

very elegantlly put , and timelly also.

i have just recieved news of suicide by a friend in a particular part of the country where suicide is common.

 

"There are many heavens out there... one's that hold good beings, and virtuaous one, and those which host the not so nice ones called demons, and such."

 

i believe that some of the demons can and do influence people who are vulneralble.....leading some to commit suicide and other acts of self destruction

 

 

" One can call it the will of heaven. But I say , if this is the will of heaven, the Being incharge should be removed. It is as such.. Earth is a mes, and so it is the same in Heaven. THe only paradise is of mind, and that is where the heavens are created. "

 

 

indeed it is a mess, but as you say, "the only paradise is of mind" (i take that to mean our congenital/original pure state.)

 

so, to me, the greatest resonsibility we have toward ourselevs and also to the rest of existence is to REALISE this "paradise of mind" while in a body. actualisation of that divine state, i feel, will act as a catalytic agent for greater harmonisation.

 

may all beings know the divine

by knowing the divine

being divine

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hey Camo (aussie slang) when the time gets closer to your trip to oz, let me know and when you come i'll show you around melbourne's surrounds, and we'll go to sailor Bob

 

 

Deal!

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