Most people are afraid of Void as Void = Death and Loss

[tulku]

hahaha, I should have never brought up the chair

 

How about this lucid dream of yours? I'm glad that you believe that lucid dreaming is real. Have you never wondered why you don't become lucid all the time, during your dreams? You are in a dream, and alot of weird stuff happens, yet you do not see that it is a dream! A potatoe talks to you and you speak with it as if it were a real thing. Isn't that odd? When you're in the dream, the things that happen are real! They really are! The more you increase awareness and question it the more vivid and real they become. The potatoe will have a strong scent, his voice will become clear and his speech will become incredibly wise and emotional. Yet you see something diffrent from usual, you actually think that it is fake because you remember the past life of you lying in bed. Suddenly you have become lucid of the fact that everything is fake. Now you can do amazing things, change the reality by thought alone, as if you live beyond time and space. What if your consciousness existed before you were born, yet you forgot it because your awareness has been lowered? Isn't the dream and reality a pattern, like an electron orbiting and atom? Then if our reality is the earth, we might very well have forgot all about the sun. The higher dimension.

Accepting fakeness during waking hours is hard. You cannot do it easily. You can go ahead and try now, as if you are trying out a shoe to see if it fits. You can always take it off. "this is all fake" you simply cannot believe it with your heart, because it feels all so real to you! The more you try to believe, the more your mind tries to seek evidence of everything being real. And that is where the magic begins.

 

The moment the mind becomes so vivid and alert and aware of everything, as a last attempt to prove that everything is real... This is the moment where you actually begin to see that everything is fake and that scares the crap out of me everytime I do it. I can't go further then the fear. I cannot let go of my ego. The fear gets me everytime, it robs me of my breath, it feels like dieing. Just as Tulku says.

 

That aside, if you wish to increase awareness and observe the secrets of this universe, you must be without desire. Your mind has desires, so be without mind, be without self. Just continue to attack your own existance, your core identity untill you will have a mental near death experience. It is enlightening to the least. Mentally dieing? I do not know what lies beyond, I fear to get past that point. For it might be hell out there, it might be heaven I do not know. I'm sure there are alot of couragious people who've been there. They claim it is heaven if you want it to be.

 

so your idea of attacking your own mind is to continuously convince yourself that everything is fake during your waking hours?

 

that is the only way to remove desires? surely there are other ways of removing desires as well

[Marblehead]

you are wrong, there is every reason to rush it..

 

see you are still thinking that the void = death and loss

 

how do you know the void doesn't also = unlimited blissful wisdom along other privileges as well?

 

No. You are wrong. You have been deluded, I am sure not by your teachers but by your own mind. Selective learning.

 

You don't know what I am thinking. All you know are the words I am typing and all of those might be lies.

 

Your Void is my Mystery. I know what void is. I look at it very differently. I see Mystery as full potential. Void connotes emptiness. That's a Buddhist concept. I am a Taoist. I speak of the fullness of Mystery.

 

I know nothing about Void because I have never been there. It's hard sometimes for me to just clear my mind.

 

Well, if you think that Void might offer you all this blissful wisdom then I sure wish you would hurry up and get there so that you could come back and tell us all about it.

 

Actually I probably wouldn't go with you even if you convinced me that you were there and it filled you with all this blissful wisdom because I really like my materialistic life and find myself to be very content and at peace with the world (as long as I am on my own property)/

[Marblehead]

hahaha, I should have never brought up the chair

 

 

Yeah, I use my chair a lot when talking about manifest reality.

[Everything]

[Everything]

so your idea of attacking your own mind is to continuously convince yourself that everything is fake during your waking hours?

 

that is the only way to remove desires? surely there are other ways of removing desires as well

No, hehe. Dude. You cannot remove desires, you can only detach from them while alive. The only other way is to kill yourself, which would be a very couragious act from my point of view. The thing is, I cannot say what lies beyond the point of death, because I've not even completely been able to detach from my waking reality. The fear for me is still to great.

 

I can only detach from reality in subtle ways.

[Marblehead]

How about this lucid dream of yours? I'm glad that you believe that lucid dreaming is real. Have you never wondered why you don't become lucid all the time, during your dreams? You are in a dream, and alot of weird stuff happens, yet you do not see that it is a dream! A potatoe talks to you and you speak with it as if it were a real thing. Isn't that odd? When you're in the dream, the things that happen are real! They really are! The more you increase awareness and question it the more vivid and real they become. The potatoe will have a strong scent, his voice will become clear and his speech will become incredibly wise and emotional. Yet you see something diffrent from usual, you actually think that it is fake because you remember the past life of you lying in bed. Suddenly you have become lucid of the fact that everything is fake. Now you can do amazing things, change the reality by thought alone, as if you live beyond time and space. What if your consciousness existed before you were born, yet you forgot it because your awareness has been lowered? Isn't the dream and reality a pattern, like an electron orbiting and atom? Then if our reality is the earth, we might very well have forgot all about the sun. The higher dimension.

Accepting fakeness during waking hours is hard. You cannot do it easily. You can go ahead and try now, as if you are trying out a shoe to see if it fits. You can always take it off. "this is all fake" you simply cannot believe it with your heart, because it feels all so real to you! The more you try to believe, the more your mind tries to seek evidence of everything being real. And that is where the magic begins.

 

Like I said, it has been a very long time since I have had lucid dreams and I am unable to remember any particulars especially since I realized, upon becoming fully awake, that they were nothing but dreams.

 

As for the thought of my existing before I was born - forget it. If anyone knows just a little bit about the biology of life one would never accept such a thought.

 

The moment the mind becomes so vivid and alert and aware of everything, as a last attempt to prove that everything is real... This is the moment where you actually begin to see that everything is fake and that scares the crap out of me everytime I do it. I can't go further then the fear. I cannot let go of my ego. The fear gets me everytime, it robs me of my breath, it feels like dieing. Just as Tulku says.

 

Well, stop doing it then. Damn!!!

 

I have a pretty good idea of what things in my life are physically real and what is an illusion or delusion. I don't spend much time thinking about that. I use that time to live.

 

That aside, if you wish to increase awareness and observe the secrets of this universe, you must be without desire. Your mind has desires, so be without mind, be without self. Just continue to attack your own existance, your core identity untill you will have a mental near death experience. It is enlightening to the least. Mentally dieing? I do not know what lies beyond, I fear to get past that point. For it might be hell out there, it might be heaven I do not know. I'm sure there are alot of couragious people who've been there. They claim it is heaven if you want it to be.

 

Why are you intent on giving my guidance? I didn't ask for any. I am perfectly at peace with my Self and am very contented with my well-being.

 

Only Buddhists have to give up all desires. We Taoist are allow to cling to some of ours.

 

Any couragious people who have experienced death aren't here anymore. They are dead. Yes, you can have a near-death experience and still be here. I have had three. The only experience I can remember is the thought, "Oh, Shit!!!"

[Marblehead]

you are wrong, there is every reason to rush it..

 

see you are still thinking that the void = death and loss

 

how do you know the void doesn't also = unlimited blissful wisdom along other privileges as well?

 

I just ran across this post again and you are still wrong.

[Marblehead]

Very good question, I wondered this too... For a long time even...

 

I wondered about that too for about the first dozen times and stopped asking the question.

 

I did it because it felt good. I like to feel good.

[Marblehead]

I can only detach from reality in subtle ways.

 

Well, don't detach too much 'cause you might get lost in space.

[C T]

Well, MH, its apparent you are doin' plenty of living here on TTB! 20 odd posts short of 10,000!! Significant number according to Taoism eh? If ever there will be a TTB Hall of Fame, i'd wager your name will be listed there!! :lol:

Edited September 4, 2011 by CowTao

[Marblehead]

Well, MH, its apparent you are doin' plenty of living here on TTB! 20 odd posts short of 10,000!! Significant number according to Taoism eh? If ever there will be a TTB Hall of Fame, i'd wager your name will be listed there!! :lol:

 

Hehehe. I stopped counting after I passed VJ.

 

My body is all broke down so the only part of me that I can still exercise is my brain.

 

And I'll tell you what, you guys and gals are a real challenge sometimes. Hehehe.

 

What's the percentage of my posts that are in the Taoist Discussions forum?

[Everything]

No. You are wrong. You have been deluded, I am sure not by your teachers but by your own mind. Selective learning.

 

You don't know what I am thinking. All you know are the words I am typing and all of those might be lies.

 

Your Void is my Mystery. I know what void is. I look at it very differently. I see Mystery as full potential. Void connotes emptiness. That's a Buddhist concept. I am a Taoist. I speak of the fullness of Mystery.

 

I know nothing about Void because I have never been there. It's hard sometimes for me to just clear my mind.

 

Well, if you think that Void might offer you all this blissful wisdom then I sure wish you would hurry up and get there so that you could come back and tell us all about it.

 

Actually I probably wouldn't go with you even if you convinced me that you were there and it filled you with all this blissful wisdom because I really like my materialistic life and find myself to be very content and at peace with the world (as long as I am on my own property)/

That might be great for you, but Tulku and I are very old souls.

 

We have been here for ages, over and over again. If not Tulku, then I did. Everything is too familiar, the materialistic is never enough to keep me content. I was born with the intuition of there being more then the materialistic world. Call me mystic, call me lunatic, I'm going deeper and further away from this all untill I reach that point that really resonates with me. I'm going to get busy dieing while still being alive, like Bruce Lee advices us to do.

 

Bruce Lee means in other words to completely let go of this reality. It increases your awereness of perception. You become more in tune with the underlying reality of everything. You begin to see the trough the mysteries, you see the secrets. You predict the unexpected. Your reflexes become faster, your consciousness wider. So many benefits, yet no one sees it. They'd rather stick with their chairs and cars and property?

Why not become the mystery itself? The dragon, the immortal, the fearless, that which cannot be attacked? Become like Bruce Lee!

 

Some people are just afraid of letting go. To just walk into the unknown or beyond the point of knowing the notness or fakeness of all. The only reason why someone would do something so crazy is when they're sick and tired of all the fake sh!t around them. I don't care about anything anymore, I want to reach a point where I can die in peace and never have to return again. I'm slowly letting go of everything, piece by piece. Whatever I fear, I conquer with courage and let go. Whatever frustrates me, I conquer with love and let go. Pain and pleasure are the same to me. I try treat them as equals, feel them and let go. Let it be... I don't care about it. I care about things and I do not attach to this care. I can love a cat, get angry at the person who kills the cat, but I will never forget that this is all fake. It written all over my being.

 

Even the biggest love I've had, the thing that really pulls you into this world, where you say "I am alive!" even during that point I looked around me and wondered in secrecy wether or not I should trust this reality. I'm constantly in search for the flaws of this ilusion. I will find it someday, like Einstein found his laws of physics. How I will manifest my findings? That is a question you'll have to ask me years from now. If I'll have to guess, I think I'll be manifesting illusions of harmony trough music, or perhaps I shall not be able to finish my work, like Einstein did not finish the Theory of Everything, Like Bach did not finish the Art of Fugue. I'm hell no gonna sit on my but, doing nothing while enjoying a cup of materialistic coffee... This western world has really lost its roots with the spiritual. I woulden't look confused when the nuclear bombs start to drop anytime soon now. People have become that stubborn in fighting over materialistic things.

[Everything]

I just ran across this post again and you are still wrong.

Roflmao, I love you man

[Everything]

Well, MH, its apparent you are doin' plenty of living here on TTB! 20 odd posts short of 10,000!! Significant number according to Taoism eh? If ever there will be a TTB Hall of Fame, i'd wager your name will be listed there!! :lol:

Holy crap. Ten thousand posts!

 

They say that if you do something ten thousand times, you will have completely mastered it.

[~riverflow]

Named, it is The Mother of Ten Thousand Posts...

[tulku]

[tulku]

No, hehe. Dude. You cannot remove desires, you can only detach from them while alive. The only other way is to kill yourself, which would be a very couragious act from my point of view. The thing is, I cannot say what lies beyond the point of death, because I've not even completely been able to detach from my waking reality. The fear for me is still to great.

 

I can only detach from reality in subtle ways.

 

How do you differentiate between detaching from and removing desires?

 

How do you know you have not actually removed the desires from your soul when you said you have already detached from them?

 

Desires just like anything else in the universe can be killed.

 

Desires are just fake illusions conjured up by the consciousness remember?

[tulku]

Like I said, it has been a very long time since I have had lucid dreams and I am unable to remember any particulars especially since I realized, upon becoming fully awake, that they were nothing but dreams.

 

As for the thought of my existing before I was born - forget it. If anyone knows just a little bit about the biology of life one would never accept such a thought.

 

 

 

Well, stop doing it then. Damn!!!

 

I have a pretty good idea of what things in my life are physically real and what is an illusion or delusion. I don't spend much time thinking about that. I use that time to live.

 

 

 

Why are you intent on giving my guidance? I didn't ask for any. I am perfectly at peace with my Self and am very contented with my well-being.

 

Only Buddhists have to give up all desires. We Taoist are allow to cling to some of ours.

 

Any couragious people who have experienced death aren't here anymore. They are dead. Yes, you can have a near-death experience and still be here. I have had three. The only experience I can remember is the thought, "Oh, Shit!!!"

 

I have already said that even the highest ranking taoists cultivate to give up all desires like the buddhists.

 

Check out Quan zhen dao.

[tulku]

No. You are wrong. You have been deluded, I am sure not by your teachers but by your own mind. Selective learning.

 

You don't know what I am thinking. All you know are the words I am typing and all of those might be lies.

 

Your Void is my Mystery. I know what void is. I look at it very differently. I see Mystery as full potential. Void connotes emptiness. That's a Buddhist concept. I am a Taoist. I speak of the fullness of Mystery.

 

I know nothing about Void because I have never been there. It's hard sometimes for me to just clear my mind.

 

Well, if you think that Void might offer you all this blissful wisdom then I sure wish you would hurry up and get there so that you could come back and tell us all about it.

 

Actually I probably wouldn't go with you even if you convinced me that you were there and it filled you with all this blissful wisdom because I really like my materialistic life and find myself to be very content and at peace with the world (as long as I am on my own property)/

 

As you said, MH..

 

"I know nothing about Void because I have never been there. It's hard sometimes for me to just clear my mind."

[Marblehead]

That might be great for you, but Tulku and I are very old souls.

 

16 & 1/2, right?

 

We have been here for ages, over and over again. If not Tulku, then I did. Everything is too familiar, the materialistic is never enough to keep me content. I was born with the intuition of there being more then the materialistic world. Call me mystic, call me lunatic, I'm going deeper and further away from this all untill I reach that point that really resonates with me. I'm going to get busy dieing while still being alive, like Bruce Lee advices us to do.

 

No, I won't call you a lunatic. You are seeking more than you have to this point found. No problem with that. I am content. I have no place to go. So here I am making my post number nine thousand, nine hundred and thirteen.

 

Bruce Lee means in other words to completely let go of this reality. It increases your awereness of perception. You become more in tune with the underlying reality of everything. You begin to see the trough the mysteries, you see the secrets. You predict the unexpected. Your reflexes become faster, your consciousness wider. So many benefits, yet no one sees it. They'd rather stick with their chairs and cars and property?

 

I would be careful referencing Bruce Lee. He killed himself through his excessive training and diet.

 

Oh, there are people who follow some of the advice of Bruce. And there are many who have become masters of their arts.

 

So you don't like cars, and chairs and property? You gotta' be shittin' me!

 

Why not become the mystery itself? The dragon, the immortal, the fearless, that which cannot be attacked? Become like Bruce Lee!

 

I am the master of my own reality. What more could I possibly long for?

 

You expect me, a 70 year old man who has had a broken hip that did not heal completely to try to become Bruce Lee II. Once again, you gotta' be shittin' me.

 

Some people are just afraid of letting go. To just walk into the unknown or beyond the point of knowing the notness or fakeness of all. The only reason why someone would do something so crazy is when they're sick and tired of all the fake sh!t around them. I don't care about anything anymore, I want to reach a point where I can die in peace and never have to return again. I'm slowly letting go of everything, piece by piece. Whatever I fear, I conquer with courage and let go. Whatever frustrates me, I conquer with love and let go. Pain and pleasure are the same to me. I try treat them as equals, feel them and let go. Let it be... I don't care about it. I care about things and I do not attach to this care. I can love a cat, get angry at the person who kills the cat, but I will never forget that this is all fake. It written all over my being.

 

My friend, I have been in more unknowns than you could ever imagine existed. I have lived a full and complete life. I am now retired and it is time to share some of my experiences, opinions and understanding with others.

 

I am at peace with my pleasures and pains. I have nothing that needs be let go of.

 

Why do you feel it is necessary to give me guidance and advice?

 

And if you think that this manifest reality is fake then it is you who has allowed yourself to be deluded. You have lost all trust in this beautiful physical reality. Sad.

 

Even the biggest love I've had, the thing that really pulls you into this world, where you say "I am alive!" even during that point I looked around me and wondered in secrecy wether or not I should trust this reality. I'm constantly in search for the flaws of this ilusion. I will find it someday, like Einstein found his laws of physics. How I will manifest my findings? That is a question you'll have to ask me years from now. If I'll have to guess, I think I'll be manifesting illusions of harmony trough music, or perhaps I shall not be able to finish my work, like Einstein did not finish the Theory of Everything, Like Bach did not finish the Art of Fugue. I'm hell no gonna sit on my but, doing nothing while enjoying a cup of materialistic coffee... This western world has really lost its roots with the spiritual. I woulden't look confused when the nuclear bombs start to drop anytime soon now. People have become that stubborn in fighting over materialistic things.

 

My poor, unrealized Everything. Lighten up, my fellow subhuman.

 

Go smell some roses. Find out how sweet they smell. Then grab the stem and find out how much it hurts when a thorn is implanted into your hand.

 

Yeah, even watch the butterflies. They are real, you know. Well, maybe you don't. Maybe they too are fake?

Edited September 4, 2011 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

Roflmao, I love you man

 

Hehehe.

 

I can't let it appear that I am taking any of this all too seriously.

[Marblehead]

Holy crap. Ten thousand posts!

 

They say that if you do something ten thousand times, you will have completely mastered it.

 

Hehehe. I was typing on computer keyboards before computers were invented.

[Marblehead]

Named, it is The Mother of Ten Thousand Posts...

 

That could be considered an insult, calling me a Mother, you know.

 

(Sorry. Couldn't resist. Hehehe)

[Marblehead]

I have already said that even the highest ranking taoists cultivate to give up all desires like the buddhists.

 

Check out Quan zhen dao.

 

No, you are wrong again. I am amongst the highest ranking Taoists and I do not give up my desires. I simply lessen them so that all are easily attainable.

[Marblehead]

As you said, MH..

 

"I know nothing about Void because I have never been there. It's hard sometimes for me to just clear my mind."

 

So what was your freakin' point?