What is Shen-Spirit?

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I've been practicing Qi Gong and sitting meditation without a personal guide and it seems to me that a lot of what I read about different meditation practices are experiences that I can relate to in things that just happened to me while practicing. Sweet energy going circulating around in my head, similarly moving through my body with the intent and focus. I understand the breath to be more than just ordinary breath and maintain this awareness. I feel less fatigue while more grounded stability from practicing, and I've found that even if I'm drained I can still bring some Qi into my body for a short burst of energy if I feel the need to. I've also practiced Emptiness meditation and found a vast clarity from all thoughts and worries (during the meditation at least).

 

So, at this point, what is the "Shen"? It doesn't have as much description that is relative to my exact understanding. I can understand the sense of Clarity which seems to be related to shen, but I don't see how that clarity moves through the body exactly.

 

Some more help on this would be much appreciated. Finding a qualified teacher would be great, but I can't afford that right now. Also, all these texts and manuals were written for something so they must be useful without a teacher if you have a good amount of background information which I think I do have a pretty good amount of.

 

Looking forward to these responses !

Edited July 2, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[ChiDragon]

[Harmonious Emptiness]

The definitions of the trinity from Jade Emperor’s Heart Seal Sutra" from The Daozang 道藏 (Treasury of Tao):

1. 神: Shen as spirit and mind

2. 氣: Chi as general vitality

3. 精: Ching or Jing as sexual energy.

 

 

 

So that goes with my experience and understanding, that more Jing strengthens and cultivates the mind to make it quicker and more awake. Thanks.

 

Now, is that all that is meant, though, when it is said to turn jing and chi into shen? Because it seems like this process is similar to putting chi into dantien, like "put the chi into the dantien and then turn it into shen before you close" whereas the energetic mind seems to just be noticed later on like "hey, I don't need to sleep after work anymore"

 

Also, what is meant by bringing the Shen into other parts of the body? There seems to be a connection where Shen is like a second stage of refining Chi during Qi Gong.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[ChiDragon]

So that goes with my experience and understanding, that more Jing strengthens and cultivates the mind to make it quicker and more awake. Thanks.

 

1. Now, is that all that is meant, though, when it is said to turn jing and chi into shen? Because it seems like this process is similar to putting chi into dantien, like "put the chi into the dantien and then turn it into shen before you close" whereas the energetic mind seems to just be noticed later on like "hey, I don't need to sleep after work anymore"

 

2. Also, what is meant by bringing the Shen into other parts of the body? There seems to be a connection where Shen is like a second stage of refining Chi during Qi Gong.

 

To tell you the truth, the ancient explanation about Jing, Chi and Shen are very vague. Nobody was ever really has a good understanding of it. I had read this most of my lifetime in my native language. People were just took it for granted by accepting these two phrases below. It was always a myth to me.

 

精化氣：　Jing turns into Chi

氣化神: Chi turns into Shen

 

I can give you my best shoot at it. Jing is the essence of the body; Chi is the energy being generated from Jing; and Shen is generated from Chi. Shen is not a thing that flows in other parts of the body. Shen is only a vital sign of the spirit of the body. It can only be sensed by feeling or grokking. For example, if a person was very energetic and very lively, it was to be that person is full of Shen(high spirit) by appearance. From Chi Kung based on the ultimate breathing method will build up more energy inside the body. The more energy inside the body, the greater one feels. The great energetic feeling is the vital sign of Shen of the body.

 

1. The west has a big misconception about dan tian. I'd never read anything like it in my native language.

"it seems like this process is similar to putting chi into dantien, like "put the chi into the dantien and then turn it into shen before you close"

 

In the Chinese literature, dan tian is only a location of the body. The term was used to describe where the chi should go into while practice the Chi Kung breathing method. When they say "sink the Chi to the dan tian", it simply means when taken a deep breathing have the abdomen fully expanded to increase the volume of the lungs allowing for more air capacity. This was called the abdominal breathing method. You properly heard the term before.

 

The Chinese always referred Chi Kung as the ultimate breathing method. Chi Kung generates a tremendous of body energy. Somehow, because of that, people thought it was energy cultivation instead of breathing cultivation. That was why some people practiced Chi Kung for many years has no effect because they did not know the significance of breathing.

[Gerard]

Your higher self that lurks beneath the mind. Qi body would be its physical manifestation.

 

Shen is also manifested in the heart as the leading force of the five pure lights (elements in Daoist thought) according to Tibetan Buddhism (Dzogchen).

[de_paradise]

Many of us have qi experiences, but shen is pretty high up the cultivation ladder. I wonder if anyone has any first hand knowlege to share.

[doc benway]

Some musings about Shen and stuff:

 

I've read a little about the more theoretical and analytical aspects but most of my understanding comes from practice. My teacher has always discouraged much reading and advised me that the same time spent only practicing would be much more valuable. So my ideas are my own and may or may not help you.

 

Jing - sexual energy, semen 精

When I first started practicing Daoist meditation we learned the MCO. I couldn't figure out what I was supposed to be feeling for a while. One day I had a powerful perception in my lower pelvis that had the quality of the physical feeling of sexual stimulation. I began working with this and it opened the door to working with Qi. I think Jing goes beyond the sexual although the sexual methods and awareness are helpful tools in understanding it. Jing is the energy inherent in physical being, more or less, not only existing now but potential energy as well - hence, the reproductive component. It's very useful to look at it as the energy and "substance" of your physical body. Substance is just our perception of a specific pattern and level of energy, after all. Although, as your practice progresses, self and other become less distinct.

 

Qi - air, breath, oxygen, energy 氣 or better yet 炁

Qi seems to be the interaction between Jing and Shen. It seems to be more a transaction - an awareness, a perception, and less any kind of substance. Looking at Qi as energy one can manipulate and contain doesn't ring true in my practice. Qi to me is more akin to tuning the antenna of my being to whatever animates me/it/us, connecting the physical experience to the mental experience. Working with QI is more about dissolving into the awareness of being and less about generating or storing a quantity of energy or stuff. It is a tuning of the Shen to the experience of the Jing. Those two communicate and interact through Qi.

 

Shen - spirit, god, heart, mind 神

Shen was the most elusive of the three to penetrate. Shen is universal consciousness/awareness. It is also uniquely you. It is always there. It is generally very muddled and muddy. It can be refined, it can be uncovered through awareness. It is what is aware of Jing and Qi. It is what motivates Yi. It is very complex and absolutely the most basic and profound. Like refining Qi, the process of refining Shen has more to do with stripping away than with building up. Become aware in daily life and being to strip away patterns and conditioning. See what lies behind your ideas and assumptions, your expectations and desires. Strip away the bias. See what lies beneath all that and dwell there.

 

Bruce Frantzis gives a nice discussion of some of this stuff in his meditation books. I don't think he has that much experience in so called "fire" methods of meditation as his description makes it seem much different from the "water" method he describes when they're nearly identical. The organization is a bit different but not so much the intent or method. Fire methods also involve dissolving, it's just a bit differently structured, that's all.

 

Jing Qi and Shen are always already there. They interact freely with each other and Daoist cultivation is more about cleaning away the distractions and being able to experience them directly and participate in the process. So in order to develop Shen, I would suggest that you continue your practice of working with Jing and Qi and start to look at who is it that is working with JIng and Qi? What is the reason? How does this all happen? How do you react to different things in your life? What is under your surface?

Start to look at who you are and why you are even interested in all this stuff. That should help you understand Shen a bit better.

 

The Buddhists talk about the Mind / Dependent Origination / Emptiness - drop all concepts and methods and simply be and this is what is.

The Daoist talk about the Way - a verb. Drop expectations and desires and do not interfere just do or do not do, and it is what is...

Krishnamurti talks about Truth being a pathless land and choiceless awareness - drop the methods and rituals and choices and measurements. Let go all belief and have faith, which means that everything can be dropped and whatever remains is what is.

Hope that helps somehow.

 

Good luck

[ChiDragon]

Many of us have qi experiences, but shen is pretty high up the cultivation ladder. I wonder if anyone has any first hand knowlege to share.

養神(yang3 shen)

Most people do not realize that meditation is Shen cultivation.

[Ya Mu]

Stillness-Movement neigong is essentially a Shen cultivation, although don't take this wrong and attempt to classify it as only Shen. It has to do with the awakening. It has to do with the raising of the energy body vibration. It has to do with finding one's true self/true nature. It has to do with finding who you really are, awakening to this and pursuing this higher level path that is an expression of who you really are. It has to do with... well, you know, it has to do with much of which is difficult to express in words but that is felt/experienced by those that practice it.

In our Stillness-Movement medical qigong we do have body techniques. But the advanced students work mostly with Shen.

[dawei]

Jing Qi and Shen are always already there.

 

養神(yang3 shen)

Most people do not realize that meditation is Shen cultivation.

 

Two very good points:

 

---

 

One example of Shen in Oracle Bones:

 

Shen was thought of as ‘that which drops from heaven’ (a subtle spirit energy) which ‘passes through the body’; Thus it connects the heavenly with the earthly (in the above picture, note the heavenly swirl and earthly swirl; archetype for Yin and Yang Diagram- Tai Ji Tu, 太極圖). In ancient document Song of the Valley Spirit, Shen is called the “Real Great Dao”. In others, it is called the “Valley Spirit”.

 

Like original Qi and Jing, there is original Shen (Yin) received during conception. Similarly, acquired post-natal (Yang) Shen is maintained through meditiation, practice, inner quiet and peace, and brings about harmony between health and Shen. It is housed in the heart (often called the supreme controller [of the body]) and when gathered in the upper dan tian it is projected out the eyes, third eye, crown, etc. Some documents said the Shen was housed in the brain but I think it’s better to think of it as housed [internally] in the heart and transported [externally] via the head. Ancient belief was that all illness is said to have a spiritual root. ( Modern chinese medicine has slowly push the idea of spiritual and Shen out of it’s explanation of the cause of illness.) High levels of Shen development account for psychic abilities and altered states of consciousness. One is said to have connected to (ie: can hear) the 10,000 voices (Wuji). Also, there is an extreme condition of the Shen called “Shenning out” which I have seen in a person. Very fast treatment is needed to the important Shen points.

 

You can also look up The Five Shen energies associated to the Yin organs:

http://taoism.about.com/od/thefiveelements/a/fiveshen.htm

 

 

Here may be an easy way to see the considerations with Shen:

-- Chinese Medical Qigong by Dr. J. Johnson

 

Yang, Jwing-Ming has written extensively on Shen in The Root of Chinese Qigong, which I highly recommend. He describes the Five Regulations and also Shen Breathing and how to join it to the breath, mind and Qi. Instead of ‘converting’ Qi to Shen, which Mantak Chia writes a lot about, one will: Cultivate, Regulate, Coordinate/Unify/Harmonize. In the ancient text, the Qi is called the ‘mother’ and the Shen the ‘son’. (ergo, not really a concept of converting but nurturing).

 

Jwing-Ming also wrote Qigong Meditation: Embryonic Breathing which describes this breathing and Shen practice but it is not really well laid out step by step but if combined with the first book you get a better understanding (although some material is repeated).

 

You may often hear someone say that Intention/mind leads the Qi (Yi leads Qi). This saying appears to originate with Mozi. It is actually better to see it as:

Intention leads Shen; Shen leads Qi.

 

But this short hand does not really do justice to the point which is more like:

Regulate Intention (and emotion) and you regulate/calm Shen. Calm Shen combines with regulated breath and Qi for health and longevity. If mind or emotion is disturbed then Shen is disturbed, then Qi is disturbed.

Edited July 2, 2011 by dawei

[devoid]

Here's a nice article on the five spirits - the shen, the zhi, the yi, the po and the hun:

http://taoism.about.com/od/thefiveelements/a/fiveshen.htm

 

-apart from dividing it out, I found it easier getting to grips with the concept of shen when I simply started thinking of old western expressions which were meaningful to me, i.e. to be in good spirits, to have a strong spirit, to be strong in spirit, etc. Think about similar expressions that make sense to you and meditate on that thought paired with your knowledge and feeling of the organs.

 

I wish you happy searching - in good health and spirit!

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Alright! That explains SO MUCH. Not only do I understand a lot more of what I've read and experienced, but all this gives me an awesome key to work with! InSPIRIng. Thanks all. And by all means, keep em coming with practices and whatever you have as I'm sure I'm not the only one trying to take it all in

--- ---

 

edit:

So essentially (not to dilute. The responses will be here for future reference, maybe in my practice log too), clearing the mind and developing concentration develops Shen. Having better energy circulation and balance does as well. Having more energy and brightness of mind/spirit from various practices is a healthy shen. Awareness of shen is what provides awareness of the sameness between our substance and the substance of life.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Informer]

Edited July 2, 2011 by Informer

[ChiDragon]

1. Is later practice of shen reaching through the crown for "other energy" like jing energy?

 

2. Is jing more like the energy that is felt upon orgasm then it is the sperm itself?

 

1. Shen is something that can be felt or manifested from a state of high jing energy. Another word, without jing, one will look fatigue. Perhaps, the one has no jing may be showing a pale face. If one's face is energetic looking and full of life, that is a sign of a person that is full of Shen. It was because there is good blood circulation in the body of this individual.

 

2. Yes, jing is the energy of the whole body. Orgasm is part of the energy that was released for the jing energy. It is not the sperm itself is correct. However, after orgasm, one will be the weakest person at that time. Jing energy can be rejuvenated a lot quicker by practice Chi Kung. The sperms will be matured in three days. After three days, your jing energy will be back to the normal level again.

Edited July 2, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Satya Ram]

Shen is Vitality. Yes?

[ChiDragon]

Shen is not a Vitality but it's only a sign of vitality.

Edited July 2, 2011 by ChiDragon

[Satya Ram]

Shen is not a Vitality but it's only a sign of vitality.

Clever, but no cigar. Vitality is not a thing. Not even a 'sign' - its signless.

[ChiDragon]

Clever, but no cigar. Vitality is not a thing. Not even a 'sign' - its signless.

From my previous post.

1. Shen is something that can be felt or manifested from a state of high jing energy. Another word, without jing, one will look fatigue. Perhaps, the one has no jing may be showing a pale face. If one's face is energetic looking and full of life, that is a sign of a person that is full of Shen. It was because there is good blood circulation in the body of this individual.

 

Do you consider that as a good sign...???

[Informer]

From my previous post.

1. Shen is something that can be felt or manifested from a state of high jing energy. Another word, without jing, one will look fatigue. Perhaps, the one has no jing may be showing a pale face. If one's face is energetic looking and full of life, that is a sign of a person that is full of Shen. It was because there is good blood circulation in the body of this individual.

 

Do you consider that as a good sign...???

 

This sounds a bit racist, what about an albino, or a black man for that matter?

[ChiDragon]

This sounds a bit racist, what about an albino, or a black man for that matter?

Please, I am talking about blood circulation..Please read carefully.

[phore]

Shen is a concept generally defined as spirit.

If you look at the 3 qualities of energy described by the Chinese.

Jing corresponds to essence or sexual/ emotional energy. These energies are very heavy and physical.

As attention is applied to the essence it begins to become rarefied and chi develops.

Chi corresponds to breath or air. This is a more clarified form of energy. It is much lighter and subtler than rough essence. To convert essence into chi we must purify our lower and more basic emotions through a means of alchemy.

As the chi is worked with it begins to rise and cool off substantially. Your life becomes more free-flowing and playful as you develop your heart.

When you seek an even further degree of clarity you move into the realm of shen. As chi reaches its highest point it guides the mind into the spirit world. This energy takes on the vastness of space. There are a great deal of new possibilities to explore and objectivity is gained through exploring beyond the individual circumstances.

As the learned personality is sublimated into a perspective of pure clarity and balance then shen is cultivated sufficiently to begin the higher stages of alchemy.

 

You could say that we begin the journey tied into our lower emotions. As we develop heart and love we begin to transcend these emotions. As love develops we begin to transcend our individual (egotistical/ selfish) perspectives. When we attain an objective and natural perspective we can begin living through our spiritual consciousness.

 

The shen or spirit is an energy that is shared with the entire universe. An individual may cultivate an awareness of this energy by rising above the limited circumstances of the individual and becoming aware of the unlimited potential of expression inherent in existence. As spiritual consciousness is developed we begin a spiritual journey.

Remember qigong was originally developed as a path to enlightenment. It is not a shortcut lacking in spirituality. Spiritual Qigong is a very systematic approach to life that allows a person to become more spiritually aware through the medium of space-time (life) in stages. The ancient sages graphed the stages of the journey they observed and created systems to help guide humans along their chosen paths.

 

Once we have developed enough spiritual awareness we gain access to our divine intelligence. We are no longer limited to exploring the universe through the limited awareness of the monkey-mind. Through spiritual awareness we can uplift the human consciousness. Even in the darkest times by listening to our divine intelligence we can access our spiritual ecstacy. Through this deep inner strength we can hold fast to our benevolent principles. When you have developed shen your life journey becomes a very inspiring affair. Your consciousness becomes aware of universal balance and harmony. We come to a realization that we live in a world of light illuminating universal love. And a world of love illuminated by the light of consciousness.

 

In the higher stages of alchemy the spiritual light begins to illuminate the holographic unlimited nature of non-being and gives rise to virtue.

 

Qigong is a medium that works through time to transcend time.

Mushin is a state of freedom from the monkey-mind. Mushin gives rise to our inherent divine intelligence that animates us and witnesses our journeys. When the monkey mind is still the guidance arising from the spiritual energy can be heard.

This guidance encourages to transcend our self-centered perceptions and act in alignment with universal harmony and balance. It is a message of the triumph of divine light and unconditional love.

Shen is what you have when you let go of attachments to heavier things. It is always with you but our monkey-minds tend to draw our awareness away from it.

Edited July 3, 2011 by phore

[doc benway]

 

As attention is applied to the essence it begins to become rarefied and chi develops.

Chi corresponds to breath or air. This is a more clarified form of energy. It is much lighter and subtler than rough essence. To convert essence into chi we must purify our lower and more basic emotions through a means of alchemy.

 

Hi Phore,

Very nice post.

 

I'd like to comment on the above point, however.

Qi goes beyond breath and air.

Ancient Daoists used separate characters.

Air/Breath or Qi 氣 contains "internal energy" Qi 炁 but also lots of other stuff - mostly unwanted (according to my teacher)

Breathing is also a process that allows us to extract Qi 炁 from Qi 氣

We also get Qi from other sources (prenatal, food, universal, etc...)

The Qi itself, however, is a more subtle "energy/awareness/connection" that is beyond air or breath.

Guiding the Qi through the bone marrow is not guiding air or breath through the marrow, for example.

 

As I mentioned before, I personally have a bit of a different view of Qi than even my teacher but this is the more classic view that I've been shown and I think it is an important distinction that is not always clarified.

 

Not everyone agrees with me on this -

for example: http://www.buqi.net/en/articles/chi.htm

I disagree with Dr. Shen's comments regarding Lishu - I've been taught that some Daoist texts and verbal transmissions do make a distinction between 氣 and 炁 .

[phore]

Hi Phore,

Very nice post.

 

I'd like to comment on the above point, however.

Qi goes beyond breath and air.

Ancient Daoists used separate characters.

Air/Breath or Qi 氣 contains "internal energy" Qi 炁 but also lots of other stuff - mostly unwanted (according to my teacher)

Breathing is also a process that allows us to extract Qi 炁 from Qi 氣

We also get Qi from other sources (prenatal, food, universal, etc...)

The Qi itself, however, is a more subtle "energy/awareness/connection" that is beyond air or breath.

Guiding the Qi through the bone marrow is not guiding air or breath through the marrow, for example.

This is true. In qigong traditions the qi is universal energy. All things are made of chi. Qigong practice teaches you to use a mechanism called breath to consume energy. In qigong the breath extends beyond the lungs and air.

Edited July 3, 2011 by phore

[ChiDragon]

This is true. In qigong traditions the qi is universal energy. All things are made of chi. Qigong practice teaches you to use a mechanism called breath to consume energy. In qigong the breath extends beyond the lungs and air.

Yes, in qigong the breath extends beyond the lungs and air.

 

If people knew something about physiology, perhaps they would have known that "the breath extends beyond the lungs and air" is the ATP. Most Chi Kung practitioner have no knowledge about the ATP, they can only give a vague answer about Chi by calling it some sort of universal energy or cosmic energy.

[ChiDragon]

The Macroscopic and Microscopic Views of Chi (氣)

 

There are always two sides to a story. It is like a coin with two sides which analogous to the yin and the yang as a unit. LaoTze always suggested to look at the yin side of the story to understand the yang side. In the case with the interpretation of chi, one must look at it from the other side. The people say it is energy. Unfortunately, they did not say exactly what kind of energy. Hence, people start looking for the answer randomly. If people are not sure what Chi is or might not even exist once thought what it might be, then how can the answer be found?

 

The ancients have a tendency to see things macroscopically; and the west tend to see things microscopically. In order to find an acceptable and logical answer, one must consider to investigate Chi macroscopically and microscopically by using the scientific method in using a known definition based from the western science.

 

Let's assume that Chi is a biochemical energy know as adenosine triphosphate(ATP). In microbiology, ATP is the energy released by cell respiration. Cell respiration is the breakdown of glucose by oxygen. The glucose is the conversion of glycogen. Glycogen is stored in the liver which was covered into glucose as needed for muscle contraction and other vital functions within the human body. For simplicity, the formula can be written as:

 

1. glucose + oxygen = energy(ATP)

 

The result from the practice of Chi Kung had developed a tremendous body energy by breathing a large amount of air 氣(Chi). Since the character氣(chi) has two radicals, it can be broken down into 气(chi) and 米(rice). It can be represented as

 

2. chi (气) + rice(米) ＝ 氣(chi)

 

The ancient character for air was 气(chi). The character for rice is 米(rice). The compound of the two radicals becomes 氣(chi). Looking at formula 2, macroscopically, the rice is the main diet for the Chinese people. Eventually, it will become glucose after the internal digestion had taken place. There are oxygen in the air from breathing. Hence, the rice is the source of glucose; and the air is the source of oxygen. By comparing the elements in both formulas, all the terms on the left hand side are equivalent to each other respectively. Since formula 1 is a known scientific fact. Therefore, the 氣(chi) in Formula 2 leads us to believe that is or equivalent to the biochemical energy, ATP, in formula 1.