Is Tao an Ontological Essence of Life?

[C T]

From the so called sayings of the Buddha and the cultural context in which these sayings come from, it is clear to me the Buddha was preaching a reactionary message. Mainly against the Brahmans. Also there is disagreement among scholars as to the complete authenticity of the Buddha's sayings.

 

Further, the Tibetans have disposed of the so called lower teachings (Pali) and have accepted the teachings of Padmasambhava as the new Buddha. Over the centuries, there has been much infighting among the various sects.

 

ralis

You diggin' up old recipes again Ralis?

[Raymond Wolter]

You diggin' up old recipes again Ralis?

Why are you doing that Ralis? Stick to empty posts ooops sorry empty pots. And Buddha's recipes?

[C T]

Try telling that to a hungry group of people! I bet you cannot twiddle around with empty pots and shove away the filled ones. Try telling them the joy of cooking and how accomplishing the cooking itself is not important. There is something called being practical and grounded and there is this.

 

Again, irrelevant - and my question was willingly shoved away into the backburner. Okay, I guess your play is with empty posts oops sorry pots as usual. Have fun with the flowers but try to bring in a real flower once in a while

If you seek for real flowers you would know where they are when they are, when you want. If you refuse to acknowledge them, even the real ones you will argue as false, as most people do with most things.

[ralis]

You diggin' up old recipes again Ralis?

 

You have a problem with scholars that may disrupt your belief system? Further, then you would have to jettison your conceptual notions and face the cosmos without such props?

 

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

Sure you did. What should we do now?

 

Do we assume everything you now assert is absolute Truth and that you really know what you're talking about?

 

You can decide to or not.

 

When you were 10 you realized what was happening?

Only to a certain degree. I used to go around and tell bullies that they were what they were bullying while in Elementary school. Literally, I would say, "You are that person". Then, I would get beaten up so I learned martial arts.

How did you figure out what your experiences were?

I only read the descriptions of my earlier experiences later when reading texts by well recognized spiritual teachers.

When did you figure them out?

Conceptually later, experientially... right then and there.

Why is it "a fact" that you had those Jhanas?

They occurred so young to me due to previous lifetimes of merit, that is all. All effects have causes, thereby are empty of self.

Is it because you now ascribe those qualities to them?

You'll have an intuition about them when they occur naturally during your own progression, and when you read about their insight from more eloquent people as I was at the time, you will know directly through remembrance.

Did one of the adults the spiritual community tell you that's what it was?

My Mom said my experience of neither perception nor non-perception was that of God, and I believed her at the time, because it connected me to everyone and gave me insight into peoples unconscious, but I have since transcended that interpretation through coming closer to what the Buddha said in a more awake interpretation of the experience.

Does it make you somehow more special now?

How do you define special? Everyone has the exact same potential to realize Buddhahood. Just within a time-line, I've been at this for so, so many lifetimes, thus there is the fruit.

Why do you keep bringing it up over and over again here, for spiritual 'cred'?

 

Because people ask. People here wonder how I know if what I say is true or merely something I have read and repeat like a parrot. So, I say... no, I've experienced directly this truth beyond reading about it.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

Why are you doing that Ralis? Stick to empty posts ooops sorry empty pots. And Buddha's recipes?

 

I guess I don't know any better. Vajraji has said I am ignorant.

 

 

ralis

[Raymond Wolter]

If you seek for real flowers you would know where they are when they are, when you want. If you refuse to acknowledge them, even the real ones you will argue as false, as most people do with most things.

Okay, I accept you are a flower

 

Would it make you happy if I accepted Vajra as a real flower too?

 

To make you even happier, I would have quoted Pema Chodron but will save that for later.

 

Again, are "real" flowers grown only in Buddhist garden? Is it possible that "real" flowers grow in Christian or Hindu or Taoist garden? If possible, are the Buddhist flowers bigger, brighter, more fragrant, less of hit and miss, clear to vision and easy to pick?

[C T]

You have a problem with scholars that may disrupt your belief system? Further, then you would have to jettison your conceptual notions and face the cosmos without such props?

 

 

ralis

What is my belief system? What is 'mine'? What's 'yours'? Can you take it with you when you leave?

[Vajrahridaya]

You have a problem with scholars that may disrupt your belief system? Further, then you would have to jettison your conceptual notions and face the cosmos without such props?

 

 

ralis

 

Oh... how you have so many props.

[Raymond Wolter]

I guess I don't know any better. Vajraji has said I am ignorant.

 

 

ralis

If he said that it must be true! After all Mr. Cow is very compassionate and writes so much and so well here and he has unconditionally endorsed Vajra as the true champion of Buddha dharma

 

So what Vajra says must be true. Shame shame Ralis

[ralis]

You can decide to or not.

 

My Mom said my experience of neither perception nor non-perception was that of God, and I believed her at the time, because it connected me to everyone and gave me insight into peoples unconscious, but I have since transcended that interpretation through coming closer to what the Buddha said in a more awake interpretation of the experience.

 

 

What if she is right and you are wrong?

 

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

What is my belief system? What is 'mine'? What's 'yours'? Can you take it with you when you leave?

 

Actually, generally speaking... it becomes where you go when you leave. LOL! This may be exactly what you mean though...

[Vajrahridaya]

What if she is right and you are wrong?

 

 

ralis

 

You can decide for yourself by going within your own conceptions and sub-conceptions and causes of them... try add infinitum.

 

Oh yeah... dependent origination! Oh yeah... infinite regress without primal origin.

[C T]

Okay, I accept you are a flower

 

Would it make you happy if I accepted Vajra as a real flower too?

 

To make you even happier, I would have quoted Pema Chodron but will save that for later.

 

Again, are "real" flowers grown only in Buddhist garden? Is it possible that "real" flowers grow in Christian or Hindu or Taoist garden? If possible, are the Buddhist flowers bigger, brighter, more fragrant, less of hit and miss, clear to vision and easy to pick?

Do you derive much satisfaction from these immature snides? You must do, seeing that you keep angling them over and over. Some leverage you have. Kudos to you, i must say.

[ralis]

If he said that it must be true! After all Mr. Cow is very compassionate and writes so much and so well here and he has unconditionally endorsed Vajra as the true champion of Buddha dharma

 

So what Vajra says must be true. Shame shame Ralis

 

I guess I am doomed to infinite hell realms for blasphemy against V the Buddha. He knows my life better than I do!

 

 

ralis

[Raymond Wolter]

What is my belief system? What is 'mine'? What's 'yours'? Can you take it with you when you leave?

 

 

Do you ever have straight answers for any question

 

I bet there is another question coming as an answer and equally twisted.

 

Or ...for one who chooses to see an answer in question sees the answer and the one who refuses sees the question in the answer ... something like that

 

The Dalai Lama said during his retreat in Seattle that spirituality is profound and simple at the same time and requires no twisted or long winded paragraphs. How precious

[Raymond Wolter]

Do you derive much satisfaction from these immature snides? You must do, seeing that you keep angling them over and over. Some leverage you have. Kudos to you, i must say.

 

 

I have added smileys just like yourself - in all those posts where you take a dig at Ralis or Songs or someone else. If a compassionate one such as yourself can indulge in such behavior, is it not allowed for an ignorant one such as myself? Also, I cannot write long and flowery posts either

 

I hate to write so many posts but this is my way of saying - please shell out your Buddhist wisdom when requested and don't throw it around unasked, especially around the likes of me who lack an open mind and are immature. Nothing that is given freely and unasked and all the time to the point of suffocating one <is not equal to> Skillful means.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Raymond Wolter

[ralis]

You can decide for yourself by going within your own conceptions and sub-conceptions and causes of them... try add infinitum.

 

Oh yeah... dependent origination! Oh yeah... infinite regress without primal origin.

 

Exactly what is a sub conception? This is the closest explanation I could find.

 

Infinite regress? Evolutionary? Will I turn into a primate?

 

http://www.mystore411.com/store/view/567857/Canada/Quiznos-Sub-Bay-Roberts

 

 

ralis

Edited July 15, 2010 by ralis

[Raymond Wolter]

I guess I am doomed to infinite hell realms for blasphemy against V the Buddha. He knows my life better than I do!

 

 

ralis

 

 

Which you are already even if you didn't say anything against the Buddha.

 

Anything against Buddha, Vajra or his team - Hell

Nothing against them but follow a non-Buddhist path - Heaven and re-birth - read that as 'waste of time'.

 

So either way you are doomed.

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Again, are "real" flowers grown only in Buddhist garden? Is it possible that "real" flowers grow in Christian or Hindu or Taoist garden? If possible, are the Buddhist flowers bigger, brighter, more fragrant, less of hit and miss, clear to vision and easy to pick?

 

Buddhism is just clearer in expression. If it's time to awake, it's time to awake no matter what conceptual formulation or language history you fall under karmically.

 

You can see the concepts of Brahma, vishnu and shiva as an elaboration on dependent origination; i.e. creation, sustenance and destruction, leading to new creation etc. All interconnected with all concepts, thoughts, phenomena, experiences, etc., and Brahman as just the realization of this, not as a transcendent self sustaining entity of all or Self of all. But, if you read the Upanishads, Brahman is definitely reified, deified and thought of as a supreme source or Self of all. Brahman in Advaita Vedanta is considered the beyond concept origin of all things, thus the primal substance of all things. In Christian mysticism, you read the very same within Christian verbs of whatever language. For the most part, it seems that those with the karma for awakeness, come to the path of "Awake-ism". You have to have experiential insight into what the Buddha taught in order to realize what is not Buddha or "awake" insight. If you don't, you'll take explanations that seem to be alike on the surface as proof of aligned insight, when this is just not the case upon deeper investigation. The experience of one-ness is mere Samsaric re-absorption. There is no such one to re-align with that was there at the beginning and will be there at the end, unless you are talking about the awareness of emptiness which is complete self transcendence, and what this means is not explained outside of Buddhism with much clarity it seems. The difference between this and the interpretation of all things being God is deeply subtle, but most important. This is indeed what sets what the Buddha said apart from other traditions. If you don't have insight into what he said, you will say, "oh... we don't really know if he said that or not." Go ahead with your bad self then. At least you're trying... I must say. At least you will evolve positively, as it's better to be an Eternalist than a Nihilist.

 

I think I've invested enough time in this argument tonight. Fare well!

 

It's funny... we get all these revenge oriented people arguing after the fact that me, Marble and Stiggy find a common ground. Wow... please look in your own proverbial mirrors.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Marblehead]

What you just stated is very difficult to add to. Thanks!

 

ralis

 

Indeed. I think that was a very nice recap of what is and isn't.

 

Peace & Love!

[ralis]

It is 0100 here MTN time and this is so much fun!

 

ralis

[ralis]

Which you are already even if you didn't say anything against the Buddha.

 

Anything against Buddha, Vajra or his team - Hell

Nothing against them but follow a non-Buddhist path - Heaven and re-birth - read that as 'waste of time'.

 

So either way you are doomed.

 

Someone here with a sense of humor. This is good!

 

ralis

[C T]

I have added smileys just like yourself - in all those posts where you take a dig at Ralis or Songs or someone else. If a compassionate one such as yourself can indulge in such behavior, is it not allowed for an ignorant one such as myself? Also, I cannot write long and flowery posts either

Really? Show me one where i supposedly 'dug' at Mr Songs?

 

Where did i claim to be compassionate? I have none, but with you around, i'm beginning to generate tiddly bits of it, so thank you very much (again).

[Raymond Wolter]

Do you derive much satisfaction from these immature snides? You must do, seeing that you keep angling them over and over. Some leverage you have. Kudos to you, i must say.

And Mr. Cow, you forgot to thank me for giving you an opportunity to observe your reactions to my snides, let go and contemplate. Should not a true contemplative person like yourself use every snide and praise as tool for self-evaluation and technique to observe the mind? I thought Vajrayana teaches one to use every hindrance as a tool

 

Also, when I expressed similar disagreements with ShaktiMama and Santiago (who I maintain are very nice people) over Shaktipat - what will like to call "snides" perhaps - I got a PM from your kind self congratulating me and expressing support. I appeal to you to see this conversation in a similar spirit of disagreement and not disharmony, even if the disagreement is with your home team - Vajra and Buddha - not necessarily in that order.