Pietro Posted June 9, 2009 Tradition, Girlfriend? Hmm [....] the concept of romantic love is quite modern, and was not present in China. [...] Sorry to keep on on my own personal sub-thread. I know this is very asocial. Still, I keep on mulling this question over and over. Not only I think the idea of a gf is really linked with romantic love, but I think there are specifical techniques NOT to fall in love. I will refer here two bibliographic references. The first is from Bruce Kumar Frantzis, who at some point of his life was involved in a Taoist Sex group and had to swear that he was not going to have a gf unless he has had sex with 1000 women. This was seen as a prerequisite to be able not to fall into this kind of delusional state where you think a person is a madonna. The second is the book from James McNeil "Ancient Lovemaking Secrets". His school has been claimed being the original school from which Mantak took his HT sexual techniques. I have not read the whole book, but already in his initial story he tells how he had to make love with many taoist women, and once he fell in love with one of them, the teacher asked him to chose: the girl or the practice. A third, albeit non taoist, reference is the book: The Art of Happiness, coauthored by the Dalai Lama (as usual someone interviews the Dalai Lama, writes a book, and then sticks the DL name on it). In this a question about romantic love is being presented and he just diss romantic love as an illusion. The author describes how weird that felt. Is it possible that such a key element in western culture, such an important personal question, is but an illusion. Also there are modern research that suggest that many states of falling in love seems to make someone behave like a drug addict. I can imagine that a tradition that in the centuries, in the millenia, has been looking to make a person free, and spontaneous, might be looking for ways to avoid people becoming addicted. Even to other people. I know this is not the kind of answer you were looking for, and I trust the others will provide you with more palatable answers. It's always a bit the problem when you speak about traditional this, and traditional that: I try to look for references . Cheers, Pietro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
11:33 Posted June 9, 2009 Nice post Pietro. I think romantic love is a shoddy imitation of real love. I think you could mistake in your post that somehow there is something "wrong" with relationships or marriage. The mistake isn't in the marriage, if anywhere the mistake is in YOU (not you personally Pietro ) Or maybe you don't even believe love exists at all? I can't go down that road. To me love is a natural result of Oneness. The natural desire to see all beings truly happy and wise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pietro Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Nice post Pietro. I think romantic love is a shoddy imitation of real love. I think you could mistake in your post that somehow there is something "wrong" with relationships or marriage. The mistake isn't in the marriage, if anywhere the mistake is in YOU (not you personally Pietro ) Or maybe you don't even believe love exists at all? I can't go down that road. To me love is a natural result of Oneness. The natural desire to see all beings truly happy and wise. Let me start by saying that I haven't had a 1000 women, although I surely desired them, so I cannot say how it is to be over it. I am not sure how deep does the illusion go, and what is illusion and what is not. Some delusional states we have all been in, when we were teenagers, are obviously dead end roada. And I will agree that marriage is not all wrong. But then there is a huge grey area in between where I have a hard time in discerning what is real and what is an illusion. Gandhi in his comment on the bhagavad gita speaks about the depth of Arjuna ignorance for distinguishing between killing relatives and other people. Maybe the illusion is this search that there is a person that will complete us. I honestly don't know. But there is a big trap that I have seen, experienced and witnessed. It is very common for people to say: this type of falling in love is not ok, this other is ok. And then they usually head directly for the one they so carefully claim to avoid. Only to fall again. Especially it goes: Of course romantic love is just an illusion. And of course I love her of real love. In fact I love her so much of real love, oh my God how much I love her! SBAANG! Oh, yes, let me add something. Bruce not only speaks about how he was supposed to make love with a 1000 women, he also describes practices (rough) to avoid letting this falling in love to happen. Leaving aside the rough practices, one of the non-rough was, after every love session to sit and dissolve everything about the girl. You know how in general after a love session we are all sweet and nice, and keep the sensations inside, wishing for them not to go away. Ok, head the opposite direction. Dissolve everything, and get over it. I think the idea is that if there is something real between you two, it will remain. In any case this will let you see her again like the first time you met her. And if it was all an illusion you will get over it faster, and (important!) not let her remain a ghost when you meet the next girl. Because one thing that is really important in traditional taoism is: the bedroom is not the right place for ghosts. You don't want the ghosts of your past girfriends hunt you down when you are in the middle of making love with someone. EDIT: grammar Edited June 9, 2009 by Pietro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
三江源 Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) . Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteTiger Posted June 9, 2009 Saying that romantic love is a delusion or an illusion is a dangerous partial statement that is floating around in our culture leading to emotional cynicism, lack of self trust, thwarting of the heart. If we are to be conscious enough to point out what is delusion /illusion, then we must be responsible enough to go further into consciousness and outline WHY this delusion is so highly regarded, and say what is the POINT of this illusion with the psyche - soul of an individual. It is dangerous and damaging to point out biogical imperative interpretations, and to ignore psycho - spiritual interpretations. The soul requires Eros in order to move it beyond itself and to experience exaltation, to grow and be fertile with the heat of an inflamed heart, to be punctured by the arrow of Cupid. Romantic love expands the psyche and soul. This is it's function. This is why everybody gets so excited when they think a woman is getting to Spock, it isnt logical to need tenderness, to get a softening of the features around a woman who is staring into your eyes, but if you do, it means your sense of self is expanding and softening, it means you are HUMANISING more fully. This is why falling in love is part of one's education. One's education as a human being. The mind often seeks others to gain help. It is also at the energetic expense of yourself with the trust that the energy will come back to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trevcaru Posted June 10, 2009 Are there any traditional Taoist techniques for finding a girlfriend? I'm curious to know! All the Best, 11:33 Marriages were arranged traditionally. More modern techniques can include going to highly populated areas at night time, such as bars, night clubs, or party events. Theres also a lot of online dating sights that are geared for meeting up with the opposite sex and they are searchable according to various preferences you may have regarding religion, height, or smoking habits for example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
11:33 Posted June 10, 2009 Marriages were arranged traditionally. More modern techniques can include going to highly populated areas at night time, such as bars, night clubs, or party events. Theres also a lot of online dating sights that are geared for meeting up with the opposite sex and they are searchable according to various preferences you may have regarding religion, height, or smoking habits for example. But they didn't have night clubs back then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteTiger Posted June 10, 2009 The mind often seeks others to gain help. It is also at the energetic expense of yourself with the trust that the energy will come back to you. Cat I'm patiently awaiting your rebuttal, if that is you wish to give one. Please my stand on the issue is not to continue arguing my point and unwilling to budge. Its an improper way I view the world based on so many MANY bad experiences I've gone through. I may be a really annoying and tough cookie to crack. But that's simply because I'm not made to crack I'm made to open once I've dispelled my own ignorance. It is basically knowledge I lack that causes my dysfunction. I am sincerely curious to what helpful knowledge you may have. Although if its given in matters of compassion or the heart I question weather you have a special intention in mind. Otherwise I like stillness, peace the mind, mind uninterrupted. After all it is my road. But if I'm not actually able to reach there in as fast of a time as I wish to be any dispelling of my own ignorance would be greatly appreciated. Beyond words is the virtue you commit by doing such an act. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trevcaru Posted June 10, 2009 But they didn't have night clubs back then What i mean by 'arranged' traditionally, is that you werent able to choose your wife or the wife her husband, the parents in their 'superior wisdom' chose for them. Of course they didnt have night clubs as we know them today, then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tabula Rasa Posted June 10, 2009 Isn't it interesting that for a philosophy that is all about going with the flow, Taoists have so darn many techniques, methods, diets, rituals, etc? yup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Posted June 10, 2009 What i mean by 'arranged' traditionally, is that you werent able to choose your wife or the wife her husband, the parents in their 'superior wisdom' chose for them. Of course they didnt have night clubs as we know them today, then. Before they arranged a marriage they would consult an astrologer to calculate the 'compatibility' and the lucky periods when the marriage should be done. This was done to prevent any problems that may occur on the path since a marriage is suppose to be a 'dual spiritual cultivation' that last as long they live. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
11:33 Posted June 10, 2009 Before they arranged a marriage they would consult an astrologer to calculate the 'compatibility' and the lucky periods when the marriage should be done. This was done to prevent any problems that may occur on the path since a marriage is suppose to be a 'dual spiritual cultivation' that last as long they live. You know what's fascinating? My girlfriend who I've been with for 2.5 years (the one I met after I wrote the long list of qualities I had reflected on and wanted that I put in my bureau under the socks)... Amazingly she and I are compatible in every form of astrology and numerology I've ever heard of: western astrology, chinese astrology (I only checked the years, not all the other parts), numerology both based on name and birth date, as well as Mayan astrology. The universe can really bring you some good stuff when you ask nicely and get the heck out of the way Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted June 10, 2009 pangomanam - Actually, I was quoting 11:33 on that...so you may want to ask him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
