Spotless

4 elbow joints - 😎

It would be incorrect to say an Enlightened person “cannot have sex”. That would imply a physical disfunction. If the definition of Enlightenment is the cessation of suffering - it does not imply any disfunction of the physical capability and may or may not effect continued sexual engagement. If the definition of Enlightenment is both the cessation of suffering and freedom from rebirth as well as numerous subtle bodies changes - disfunction does not take place but it is quite likely that sexual activity and engagement have nearly or entirely ceased. At such time as this change does or does not take place - it will not in any way seem like a loss - like having lost something - it will not feel like a loss of virility - it will not be missed (even if it was a big part of previous personhood - it will be of zero concern and it will not weigh upon one in the least). One will no longer get lost in momentum’s - DNA markers will not climb into you - sympathetic resonance will draw no quarter and life will be more vivid than ever. And concerns about Futures and Pasts will cease as time and space fall away - this is perhaps the key to understanding what cannot be understood in this - the energies are not withdrawn from - they are thousands of times greater and finer and more vivid - but in Light - not in the candied relative dense branded identifications of momentum’s and constrains. Everything is Light - Objectless Consciousness is not a cardboard Consciousness nor is it simply Samadhi - in these “realms” - abidance in them transforms all the subtle bodies. Not in abandon or trance - that would be to miss the mark in child’s play. Trance is nothing in this - this beingness is visceral Light (far higher than sex on any level - and in a freedom beyond bound)

Regarding the entities that spoke through Cayce - everything was far from ALL mainstream Christianity - not merely Fundamentalists with whom many mainstream Christian leaders differ.

Just a side note: Edgar Cayce would not have refered to himself as a “Christian Mystic”. He was known as the “Sleeping Prophet” and was completely unaware of what he was saying and dictating while asleep. When a doctor started asking him questions while under that were related to esoteric areas and not healing remedies he became livid and was actually concerned if “ the devil was rearing it’s head” when he heard what had come out of his mouth. It was very contrary to the “Christian” teaching he had been teaching. However - once the can was open he decided to ask at the behest of those he was angry at if the sleeping speaker could elaborate more on the seemingly contrarian ideas and slowly but surely he could see a very very different picture from that resembling the “Christianity” he had been teaching. It was a very big deal when he started breaking the news to his own family because it parted so drastically from typical “Christian” mythology. Also a great deal of the information was not related to Christian stories but Egyptian and general esoteric traditions from India. As far as a moniker like Mystic - Edgar would have been the first to laugh at that. He was a humble and grateful man who had gifts as a channel that came through him during total sleep in which he was unaware. He was “Christian” - he read a version of the Bible once every year for every year that he lived. “There is a River” is one of the finest books written on his life and as a book chronicling what it can be like feeling ones way in the spontaneous happenings of gifts of this sort. It is a beautiful book.

What ever your practice - practice can and will help you to arrive at a peace that simply one day takes place in this regard. i do not know what the mechanisms are precisely - I constantly thought of suicide for many decades - even after my son and wife and all. What you explain was always with me - though those that knew me often thought that was the last thing on my mind. Not long before I Awoke - it simply fell away - I was meditating a considerable amount - but I had meditated even more in earlier times. I had just started Qi Gong - it is incredible at breaking up held patterns both physical as well as all throughout the subtle bodies. (It is incredible post Awakening for breaking up residual patterns) As much as the allure of suicide was tempting I was quite clear in the futility of that as some out - it is more like stepping from one jail into a far more confined space. Rideforever mentioned comedy - laughing - and for me - taking a drive, comedy, movies, a message - it is important to be with some form of relief and play. Even if the “play” is something pretty mundane by most standards. Fasting was a great help many times in my life and perhaps this would be of help to you as well. It is like a big recalibration to ones natural essence and departure from current trends and crossroads. The isolation is in otherness - but even Unity Consciousness does not necessarily remove this malady. One can BE in everything and the sense of aloneness may still abide - possibly even more as time goes on because regardless of what you know/see/feel you are even less able to share it with the general associations in your life (particularly if you have aversion to overt religious behavior and rainbows and unicorns). A great deal is in willfulness. In this itching willfulness - the urge to Do - is isolating. It would appear not to be isolating - but it solidifies Me-ness in its triggering ever so subtly. Look at your story and let it go. (it is in the story that the lie has taken form - the lie that Self cannot simply Be but must somehow be a reward. That cowardice is your problem - or lack of fortitude.) Pasts and Futures are the gut of the illusion and only trance takes you past the driving pain of loss of Self. Ultimately whenever the frequencies of trance subside we long for something better or more meaningful. Sleep - waking sleep is everyday life among the sleeping masses. The addiction to our favorite trances is the illusion. Laughter and sudden beauty are among the best ways to see Present in Presence. NOW has no longing.

The personhood that ceases upon Awakening may have been a thief - upon Awakening the thief is no more though some propensities may still exist unattached. The assessment that nearly anyone can Awaken does not mean a vile decrepit low spirit has any likelihood of Awakening let alone Enlightenment - one that is thoroughly lost in attachment, fear and depravity is likely fairly immovable. But in many many scenarios such as that of the famous Milrepa of Tibet and others - thieves and those involved in treachery and even mass murder come in many varieties - many are princes and kings and queens. Some “born” to fight. Most religious dogma would say the unethical will not enter the gates of heaven - of course many of those saying that are as perverse as anyone they would have barred.

Simply not the case. The machinations within can come to the fruition of a considerably bent human being - and when Awakening occurs is not very much dependent upon purity as it is upon a critical mass of release. From this a previously “experienced and imperfect” Presence can in many cases understand how much more “work” is to be done. While a relatively simple life may bring forth a wonderful teacher in Awakening but see no reason for ardent work. Awakening can be mistaken for Enlightenment - Enlightening aspects proceed in Abiding Awakening but does not necessarily progress to what Enlightenment more closely resembles. The conceptual - long slow engineered progress is conceptual only - it appears to work for those that need it but it is the longer path generally speaking. Generally it is more of a shit or get off the pot situation - life is generally raw and then the grasping ceases in Awakening and from there veryfine changes take place over many years - in seemingly endlesss massive unfolding. Awakening - and with it the secession of suffering can definitely take place in someone pretty far from perfect to any great degree. To a very great extent - all it takes is release from grasping - most thieves and most apple polishers are just as asleep and automated as anyone.

Gently bring the awareness to the center of the head and away from the brow. Concentration can be defined in different ways but generally two: 1. One in which awareness is consistently less and less engaged in otherness and becomes more and more concentrated in the “simple” divine essence of Awareness. 2. One in which one is attempting a wilful act of holding ones attention upon a “singular” point/object/sound etc. Both forms of concentration are fine - but the first IS meditation and the second is a mental practice. Considerable strain can be found in brow concentration - and it can result in many of the anxious reactions through your subtle bodies. You are experiencing kundalini energies and may very well benefit from a Yoga practice that includes the Asanas. My reference to Yoga is a way of life and does not include the asanas as the defining characteristic but rather meditation and whole life commitment. Take particular care to look at your diet and stimulants. The entire erection thing will subside all by itself and is of no concern - but do move the awareness from those areas and find yourself back in the center of the head. Mantra is for the first definition of concentration - it can be seen as simply a sound that can carry your awareness in stillness - and the sound settles noise among the subtle bodies carrying the Light far and wide in no time and no space. You may find Pantanjali’s yoga sutras interesting - when he wrote it meditation was the practice and assanas were not part of yoga. In one of the posts here someone mentioned spontaneous back bending - this was definitely along the lines of what you are dealing with - he mentioned Kriya Yoga - this may be helpful. i experienced the same thing regarding spontaneous back bends and they were clearly massive kundalini arising in my case. I was already quite advanced in meditation and took this in stride along with very exciting inner sight. So - it may not be necessary to do anything in response. Early strong meditation in the brow can also be triggering a flight or fight response on a lighter level and this can trigger adrenal activity and sexual energies. Center of head does not pose these problems and it does not inhibit the growth of awareness in the brow area whatsoever. Do also understand - many of the abilities in the brow, when developed, are among the most seductive of all siddhis - they can own you without your knowledge and bestow abilities far and wide that fall very short of the mark they have one believing in. Above all - be good to yourself and hear your bodies in this communion of Awareness in the subtle bodies. It would be best to land on a singular practice and with good guidance. It is difficult to respond to a mismash of practice within oneself. The very basics of meditation will unfold everything - when you get into engineering - everyone else’s answers seem to become more important and it’s easy to get lost and overcome. The very basics are - good upright posture - whether sitting in full lotus, half lotus, in a chair with feet on the floor, or standing - it does not matter in the least. Breath into the lower abdomen. Awareness in either the lower abdomen or center of the head. Start and stop meditation on a good note - try not to stop when you hit a wall. If you are regularly experiencing a wall at a particular time then make sure you trudge through it or simply stop well before it typically happens. As you progress your diet will need to change and behavior changes will come to you as well. Diet is EVERYTHING you take in - food, drink, media, environment, friends, news - all general noise and music as well. Feel the bottom of your feet - the air as it passes through your nostrils - breath deeply into your abdomen and walk in and with your bodies. Let judgement fall away - and the Light will emerge.

There are so many types of energy and endless growth. One can radiate at times and at the very same time be going through massive changes - for many years. Some learn invisibility and others are more on the surface while some are charismatic. Traditional yoga is primarily meditation - western “yoga” is primarily a work out regime. For some Qi Gong masters it is like walking in a volcano in private - for others it is a Well to draw from - for some it is like walking in a sun and for some it is all of these. For many- it is like Western”Yoga” - a work out of sorts to ward off aging and stagnant Qi. For some it is a tidy business with good money to be made in seminars. For some it is their way and the students are simply practicing with them.

For some high anxiety and prolonged hardship are saddled up with the notion of Dark Night of the Soul. It may also be a deep suicidal voice and a sense of general dissatisfaction with life that drags anchor and weighs upon one that is associated with Dark Night of the Soul. In the definition of Dark Night of the Soul put forth here it is much more tangible and typically quite abrupt and blunt. It is simply too easy to extend the definition to include nearly every quiver in the heart. When a person finds out they have cancer it can be a whole range of anxieties - but when you reach stage 4 and it’s everywhere - in many cases - your life stops - personhood is put on hold - each day is in the moment. When a sizable portion of lifes work comes to an end in bankruptcy and ruin - it can be a stop point in interaction with life and family and everything familiar. Catastrophic consequences can leave one with a spouse or child or entire family dead - there is no retrieval in such a case - it is not possible to put oneself in such a persons shoes. The sudden and unexpected loss of a long time job - an unexpected announcement of a spouse leaving / divorcing - loss of a home and no money or youth to work with left. There are quite a number of events that can separate one from ones personhood - disconnect the drive train - remove one from all familiar inertia’s - from inertia. Full stop mode - but not resembling a conscious choice - an abrupt shift to Present with a sort of black patina and dead weight attached. The most key feature - all wilfulness comes to a stop. ——- This is about Wilfulness ——- Awakening is Wilfulness dropped - all grasping is Wilfulness. All personhood is Wilfulness etched in habituation and fortifications of position and belief held in pasts and futures. Many who experience Awakening come to a stop moment in which they drop Wilfulness within to a critical mass and - in an instant - are Awakened. For many that have Awakened - it has come about in Dark Night of the Soul. For many that have Awakened - they find themselves in a state resembling Dark Night of the Soul: It does not have the black patina and the weight is like helium - but past and futures and habituations are gone (at least for a time). Personhood is missing.

In the Dark Night of the Soul as defined here it is quite the opposite of the above quote - their is no protesting - no cycling - the “speed” is that of dead stop. The ego in basically any form of definition of it is withdrawn from - it is not held at bay - it is not being contemplated - it is nothing. Personhood is withdrawn from - it is like suicide was committed but with no planning and no intention of committing the act - and their is no remorse or rehashing or investigation - it is with a great heaviness that one takes each breath and moves about. Everything feels somewhat newish - even going to the bathroom or placing your hand on a cup of coffee. The mind by any definition is nearly at an utter and complete stop. In some ways - all breath is sipped in by the heart as one proceeds very much alone in a deafening silence.

Rene: “For me - DNOTS has come as a sideways step from bottomless depression. Not like a rescue ladder - but rather the lateral move taken without intent or even the desire to do so: the crumb trail followed when nothing of old Self remains...including any connection to the situation that got me there in the first place.” Yes! No rehash - nothing

Patrick Brown: ”I see it as going to the end-of-mind, or exhausting mind, and being on the verge of sacrificing self but something keeps you here, selflessness!” Response - Spotless: This view is more along the line of heavy depression - but the use of the word Mind leaves a very wide berth for interpretation. The key aspect put forth above is in relation to Wilfulness specifically - you can’t run (not a mind function) and you have no yankable option of energetically grabbing and twisting your way out (not a mind aspect) and crying and feeling sorry for yourself is also not an option (not a mind aspect) and the mental options were the first to be written off the list - and often having nothing to do with mental exhaustion. A group of physical cops surrounding you with guns drawn leaves no mental or physical or emotional way out - zip. All impetus to momentum is dead before starting.

It is what it is - it is not necessary and not specifically a side effect of “seeking”. Some may experience it, some may not. It could be the side effect of having stage 4 cancer.

Awakening is generally not about the “letting go” of positions but rather the falling away of position (also called grasping). In a sense we are all experiencing depression as we feel distance to some un-pin-able essence. Self / Divine Essence / Grace / Love / God - we are these - they are the same. We glue into frequencies that come and go (karma) and comprise them to be our “I”s which we take to be who and what we are - but this “we” that comprises our personhood and our proud stories and our ordeals and bruises and open wounds fall short in the appraisal of who we are and what “it’s” all about. A great portion of what “it’s” all about is Spontaneous Creativity and so “it” is not all dreary and may be nearly void of drearyness. The component of depression is the suffering that ceases with Awakening. It is investment in pasts and futures - beliefs - concepts. All belief is vested in pasts and futures. And the wilfulness of our investment in them is constantly grated over the Present which we willfully and in automation and habituation walk over the jewel of Self. Depression - doubt - redress - these are symptoms of the “pasts futures” dilemma - and yes they can be helpful in this lost and found we are in the process of discovering. Great joy makes the lows feel like a mockery. Yet many of our highs are as automated as any experience. It is a peculiarity of our species and this play to value automated suffering over automated “fun”. The Dark Night of the Soul as it has been referred to and defined in these writings could easily be named The Harsh Brilliant Light from which all of the “you”s that comprise your personhood cannot hide, run from, or tape over. Other definitions may easily turn into a hug fest - victimhood and self improvement. IN The Dark Night of the Soul one does not want comfort - one wants nothing. It is a settled space. Sudden silence in a patina of drought and incredible weight. One is abruptly faced with nothingness. It can be like finding oneself falling into a bottomless pit - for a time one is IN the “pit” aspect. After a time it may occur to one that “bottomless” means essentially that one is floating and is not about to be a splat. At some point one may reconsider the entire assumption of “pit” in relation to having no position, no grasping. Instead of picking up the “pieces” of residual selfhood/personhood/position/automation - one may abide in Self and come to Be.

The entire discussion of Dark Night of the Soull can be turned into a discussion of various levels of depression. What was put forth above is something different and more defined as a confrontation of ones willfulness and in that an abrupt debasing of ones personal story(s). In “classic depression” personal stories grow, positions lock and the voices are often given free rein or sometimes only a few very repetitious negative loops. (It can be hopeless and it can be hard to want to wake up or answer the phone as well.) It is nearly the opposite with Dark Night of the Soul - though some that are interested in this theme have included nearly everything in a sort of group “problem solving” heart themed inquiry “teaching” and it sells very well. In DNOTS personal stories turn to ashes, positions have no grasp and locking up on anything is functionally impossible - even the mind loops stop - though for a time the mind may loop on the completeness of the situation - such as the man might say “what the ? Whaaaaaaaat the ?????? Whaaaaat the f..............?” As he begins his free fall from the plane.

People come and go from Self frequently - and they sometimes Awaken for no apparent reason whether having symptoms of depression or joy. However - it (Awakening) does happen much more frequently in moments when a person suspends judgement and in some sense disengages from their positions. If your question was with regard to entering what is referred to as Dark Night of the Soul without pursuing Enlightenment - and whose only outside symptom was the onset of depression - It’s “onset” has no general correlation with seeking Enlightenment and outwardly a person could appear nearly fine to most people’s perceptive abilities. The Dark Night of the Soul is not a “state” one enters as much as a train wreck or falling out of a plane without a parachute. It is not depression with thoughts of suicide. It is a confrontation of your person-hoods wilfulness.

Absolutely - and it is also problematic: In time it can become your story - it can bring you close to Awakening and has so many elements of awakening but it does not generally come with the clean release of grasping but rather a sort of fenced-in no-out aspect - a bit like being surrounded by a bunch of police telling you to drop everything and put up your hands - their are no good options - not even to speak - zip - put the hands up and drop everything - get on your knees then lie face down. And like the above example - you are not really asked to give up your person hood - that group of “I’s” you consider YOU - but it is temporarily stopped in its tracks and you do not have willfulness as an option - in other words you cant talk the police out of the order - suicide or dead compliance are the options. In the case of the Dark Night of the Soul - you are surrounded by complete futility - the options are the same. And for a time - you are in the present - with a haunting bleak tiredness. You do not even resort to planning - futures are of no interest - your previous story seems like fantasy in ashes. You may turn to drink - you may turn to religion - you may sleep endlessly and not answer the phone and contemplate suicide - you may work and do what you must while carrying yourself as walking leadened dead weight with each step asking why? But with no interest even in asking or entertaining the question - no interest in sorting it out - there is nothing to sort out. AND then we come to the crux in the road. We begin to walk upright - like the first few days outside after a really bad bout of the flu - we are in a delicate physical state and in this case a very delicate overall state. We are planning nothing - we put one foot in front of the other and if need be we just stand and breath and perhaps then sit down or lie down fine with having had even a moment with some semblance of a part of us being slightly above water. This goes on for a time and then the crux - outside expectation comes to us and inside impulses of expectation begin to arise - but we are also experiencing SELF - we are IN SELF and their is something familiar and wonderful about it - an awareness of breath and Being that we are not doing but that we ARE - a part long covered over and sidetracked in those very noises of futures and pasts and hardened dead positions that we have just put under our feet. But............. The sirens start calling ever so faintly - you need to get back on the horse - put your hands back on the reins - you can’t sit on the fence - living in a van down by the river is not a nice option. At this point most simply begin to pick up pieces and familiar habituations begin to re-emerge. Some things may be off limits entirely for awhile and others not so much - it is a slow “recovery”. It is slow for many easily imagined reasons but particularly because whole pieces of the former life are of no interest and are no longer of value. Futures and Pasts both have taken a considerable jump back in terms of planning or prioritizing or wearing as a badge. And we are once again abandoning Present / Self and it becomes soon enough again - “our story”. Awakening is often frought with the same sirens - it generally does not come with a haunting bleakness - but it is often extremely disorienting. In much the same way whole portions of personhood (often felt as all of personhood) have dropped away - so much so that you also do not answer the phone - but not because you are ten feet under - you simply have nothing what so ever to say. And the sirens are your friends and family that know you are fine but - NOT FINE - and you have no explaination even if you wanted to explain - and at the same time you are uncommonly overwhelmed with immense Gratitude towards nothing and everything. Got to go - tough writing all of this on an iphone -

As has been said before - no practice will lead you to awakening - it will happen when it happens - it is like an accident. But doing practice does appear to make you more accident prone.

It is a first step as Dwai correctly explained: If you do not see this then you will try to fix *your selves*, you will try to improved upon the quality with which you grasp the tree. You will continue to be invested in willfulness and solidification of position.

The examples from your teacher are not really a mixed bag approach like I was referring too. I am not from a Qi Gong lineage that “sends” energy - though I have mastered many of those abilities. It is something that needs to be taught with great care and subtle awareness of the nature’s that can be transmitted. It is also a “doing” school that has this component - I have moved from these practices. I am also not interested in prove-it practices - though I am by no means saying yours is playing prove-it.

It’s a club word in the sense you have used it - over time you come to know the teacher and the feel of what he is saying. In that context it’s fine - and he might have said another word or two that would mean the specific general meaning he has delivered to his teaching using the word Love. In general discourse without that club word relationship it’s just the start of positioning or a big sloppy hug fest. Sloppy hug fest’s are fine but then they are not discourse.

It is interesting to note that at the mention of the word "Love" the beginnings of completely derailing this topic has begun. It happens time and again - speaking of the Heart field or heart chakra or heart center or Higher Heart - is time and again polarizing. It is not as bad as trying to discuss male/female differences or topics along those lines which here tend to lead to banning people but here it is again - a very tricky subject to discuss without positioning and personhood investment yanking the ground from reasonable discourse and then with the addition of incredibly vague overriding words that have hugely personalized meanings and very flexible and vague meaning even to each persons own definition. This has been a nice discourse and reasonable for what it is - but it has become one of trying to force the square peg into a round hole. Everyone is correct from their position. And some are positionless which makes argument pointless - but fun to try. Some of the best students are those that have no previous training or reading or even prior known interest. Some of the worst students are the very best students but they are so coiled up in mousetraps waiting to find fault according to their unrealized positions and personhood that they are sooo Very invested in that they are nearly dead on arrival - while at the same time being the most active in the cage. All real Practice (practice with the idea of it as a way of life to reach Self Realization and then onward from there in an ever Enlightening Grace) leads to highly increased energetic levels which beg for some discipline regarding diet and generally a clean approach vs a mixed bag approach. The Mixed bag approach is the Rabbits Way - highly engineered by someone who does not know what they are actually engineering - it leads to the house of babble - possibly one with tons of Siddhis - but siddhis are trifles. The more easily words come out of one's mouth regarding Heart - the more one is full of oneself and one's views and in love with one's words - it is like a sweat lodge for one's Self - words distract from it and box it - they are so tiny. Imagine for a moment the color - poasidjga;oegin - just take your time - this is like saying the word Love - it has only reasonably specific meaning for the person saying it - for the persons hearing it is - poasidjga;oegin. The only agreement is in a club setting like a religion - yet Love has been what many have killed for in those clubs. People LOve the word Love and will continue to pound it out like a square peg into a round hole endlessly - it is at this time basically an unfortunate word that should be used as though it is just about the last cup of water on the planet. In a setting of pointing as in a teacher pointing the way to Awakening - the word Love is a poor pointer - it is not even a good pointer to Unity Consciousness. It is about as effective as using the word God as a pointing. In general discourse about these subjects - club words such as these (in their best sense - meaning where some reasonably generally understood notion of them is agreed upon within the club words and usages) become only reasons for derailing the conversation and not getting to any pith.

Spotless: It is not so much "masking" - it is still mostly futures and pasts - and investment in one's positions - which are investments in past and in future projections. This is the trance of accumulated compressions and held beliefs and "our story". dwaii: By Gut you mean the Lower Dan Tien or comparisonthe gut? My teacher always tells us to balance out the energies by sinking to the lower dan tien. 4 2 Spotless: Lower Dan Tien or in Yoga - the abdomen - or in most meditation - just below the navel in the abdomen - but yes this is the base and from there the mountain rises. One can breath in this and be in this and all that one is given will shine from there - and all that is too hard to bear will burn up there and not run to the head and heart and become part of the trance. Ownership of the base means the Heart will not fear and send the mind racing. Ownership of the base means the Mind will not project and send the heart racing. When one is fully abiding in the base with the heart and head fully incorporated - one is far beyond mere Awakening - it is much closer to what Enlightenment is associated with. The head and the heart will not be tamed without this - they will not be whole - they are like rabbits in a race with a turtle - the three transcend to a level that is immense even by comparrison to the enormity of the three individually

It would be hard consider that “Divine Love” concepts have their root in Christianity. Your assessment of the New Age is a far right Christian tag assigned to it. It was actually disappropriation of inherited dogma and staid religious assumption. The negative view of the New Age was sold hard by the dying religious dogmas - and it was an easy target with the barrage of whimsical intermixed with enormous grace and expansion. But Christianity is an easy target as well - it is simply not as politically correct to denigrate it - displace assumption regarding its concoction and intoxicating transmutations and plagiarized basics.