Apech

Nagajuna's shunya and Xuanxue match quite closely and in a way Wang Bi and his school paved the way for an easy entrance for Buddhism into China. I wonder how different Daoism would be without Xuanxue? Can we ever know?

No need to apologise ... all is in the spirit of good natured conversation as far as I am concerned. I will answer your PM. I don't want to talk too much about vajrayana on this thread because as you say the topic is Chaos Magic.

I'm not sure what you are implying I haven't had in a while Just to clarify ... vajrayana is quite hermetic (with a small H) theurgy = sadhanas astrology = auspicious days and years, planetary influences etc. alchemy = internal mixing of winds, substances etc. ... also channeling by oracles and divination. Buddhist monks also practiced magic from the earliest times (despite what they would have you believe).

Vajrayana is a magical system

I think you might find the dates reflect when the wiki article was written. If you read the article it says that Chaos magic started in the 70’s in England.

“One cannot attend a single thread on the Dao Bums, where cultivators of every lineage and temperament are gathered for the great ball of spiritual discourse, without being entertained by the most delightful rumours: that Master X has secretly attained rainbow body in a cave near Chengdu, that Adept Y has fallen into deviant qigong and married a fox spirit, and that poor Neophyte Z is violently in love with the teachings of the late Master Ni, while everyone insists he is promised to the Complete Reality school! How such reports arise in a forum where people ostensibly have nothing to do but discuss the Dao, I protest I cannot imagine.”

My balls have always been followed by gossip.

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r-11cv4x{0%{transform:rotate(0deg);}100%{transform:rotate(360deg);}} @-webkit-keyframes r-imtty0{0%{opacity:0;}100%{opacity:1;}} @keyframes r-11cv4x{0%{transform:rotate(0deg);}100%{transform:rotate(360deg);}} @keyframes r-imtty0{0%{opacity:0;}100%{opacity:1;}} .r-24vbc0{position:absolute;visibility:hidden;top:0;width:50px;pointer-events:none} .r-24vbc0.loaded{visibility:visible;top:50vh;width:50px} Chaos magic (also spelled "chaos magick") as a distinct modern magical paradigm first emerged in the late 1970s in West Yorkshire, England.Key milestones: 1976–1977: The foundational ideas began circulating in a loose group of occultists in Yorkshire. Early figures included Pete Carroll, Ray Sherwin, and others who were dissatisfied with the rigid hierarchies and dogmas of traditional magical orders (Golden Dawn, Thelema, Wicca, etc.). 1978: The first public statement of chaos magic principles appeared in Pete Carroll’s book Liber Null (published privately at first) and Ray Sherwin’s The Book of Results (also 1978). These two short works are considered the “founding texts” of chaos magic. In them, terms like “chaos magic,” the rejection of belief systems as tools rather than truths, and techniques like sigil magic derived from Austin Osman Spare were formalised. Late 1970s – early 1980s: The loose network called the Illuminates of Thanateros (IOT) was formed (initially as a mail-based pact in 1978–79), becoming the first formal chaos magic organisation. So the commonly accepted “birth year” of chaos magic as a self-conscious movement is 1978, with the publication and private circulation of Liber Null and The Book of Results.(For context, Austin Osman Spare’s sigil techniques from the early 20th century and Discordianism in the 1960s are important precursors, but chaos magic proper begins in 1978 with Carroll, Sherwin, and their circle explicitly branding and systematising the approach.)

I wasn’t talking about the nature of numbers but about how complex systems of large numbers of things ( eg raindrops hitting a windscreen) can be described. As random and chaotic for instance.

There are two types of chaos. One is the pre- creational state which is formless and undefinable. The other is the complexity of large numbers of things moving independently.

I don’t think there is any relation between chaos theory ad chaos magic apart from the name.

It’s Armenian, Got no cream in, It’s the coffee got you dreamin’ It’s a fact, No coffee’s like that, This side of Mount Ararat, It’s hot In the pot what we got Drink it, drink it a lot. (modest coffee rap)

frothy coffee?

Hi and welcome

I hate tofu. but I like toffee!

Yes - I was perhaps being a bit harsh there. But it is a tendency among those who misunderstand zen to think that switching off is the thing. It is more like switching on your mind to total brightness ( or something like that). The monk that stole the tofu needed a cat alibi obviously - so kudos to him.

That’s what I thought. What’s the Latin quote ‘who guards the guards?’ So the technique is ‘look at the cat, look at the cat’ while the monk sneaks away with the tofu. Or to be even more controversial … pay your subscription but switch off your mind… just sit and switch off your mind. Who gives this advice and why?

Ok. I'm going to talk through this and the next two stages (from the papyrus of Khonshu-mes). Sorry about the title I couldn't think of anything better. It's from a papyrus written in the 21st Dyn. in Thebes for the priest Khonshu-mes. It is one of the so-called mythological papyri which were produced in this late period which consist of almost entirely illustrations with little or no text. We are starting in the West which means the body. With death and mummification. Sorry the pic is a bit blurred but I probs with the image capture and getting it big enough. I'll go through what it shows and try to explain what it means in subsequent posts. Questions welcome (but please try to stay on topic if at all possible).

feigning affection I lied about loving you fickle heart fickle tongue.

Do you always sit In constant meditation? Only now and zen. 🧘

The illustration to the Head of Mystery Chapter 151 of the Book of the Dead is very similar to the picture we are studying:

Somebody has to do the work around here

I disliked this video very much. For two reasons. The people listening to her laughed on cue to stories which were not understood even by her. Tofu is not good for cats - there’s no way a cat was stealing it night after night. I did enjoy your subsequent discussion even tho I disagree with most of you.

Vibe

Most people seem to think it is related to words meaning 'be strong, powerful' and others to the word for natron the salt used for embalming. But I think that really no-one is sure. A kind of flag was displayed outside of temples with three coloured cloths hanging from it - I think this is most likely the meaning ... its a sign showing a god's sanctuary is there. But who knows?