Apech

I am English but I live in Portugal. Oak is Portuguese but lives in England. It’s a kind of yin yang non duality thing.

Sorry I don’t really follow you - but all good. It’s an English obsession as to what is the North/ South which goes back to the Wessex/Danelaw division more than 1000 years ago.

hey you can’t give up 1000 years of history just like that.

You know it’s a big deal in England what’s north or not. I don’t make the rules.

‘North’ 😃

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Welcome.

Hi and welcome.

Yes.

Pre-philosophical shamanism????

The use of the word Dao was fairly universal in Chinese philosophy wasn’t it? Like the other schools such as the Naming School and so on. So we would have to identify a purely daoist Dao distinct from others? And also where are we placing the origin of daoism anyway?

Nagajuna's shunya and Xuanxue match quite closely and in a way Wang Bi and his school paved the way for an easy entrance for Buddhism into China. I wonder how different Daoism would be without Xuanxue? Can we ever know?

No need to apologise ... all is in the spirit of good natured conversation as far as I am concerned. I will answer your PM. I don't want to talk too much about vajrayana on this thread because as you say the topic is Chaos Magic.

I'm not sure what you are implying I haven't had in a while Just to clarify ... vajrayana is quite hermetic (with a small H) theurgy = sadhanas astrology = auspicious days and years, planetary influences etc. alchemy = internal mixing of winds, substances etc. ... also channeling by oracles and divination. Buddhist monks also practiced magic from the earliest times (despite what they would have you believe).

Vajrayana is a magical system

I think you might find the dates reflect when the wiki article was written. If you read the article it says that Chaos magic started in the 70’s in England.

“One cannot attend a single thread on the Dao Bums, where cultivators of every lineage and temperament are gathered for the great ball of spiritual discourse, without being entertained by the most delightful rumours: that Master X has secretly attained rainbow body in a cave near Chengdu, that Adept Y has fallen into deviant qigong and married a fox spirit, and that poor Neophyte Z is violently in love with the teachings of the late Master Ni, while everyone insists he is promised to the Complete Reality school! How such reports arise in a forum where people ostensibly have nothing to do but discuss the Dao, I protest I cannot imagine.”

My balls have always been followed by gossip.

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r-11cv4x{0%{transform:rotate(0deg);}100%{transform:rotate(360deg);}} @-webkit-keyframes r-imtty0{0%{opacity:0;}100%{opacity:1;}} @keyframes r-11cv4x{0%{transform:rotate(0deg);}100%{transform:rotate(360deg);}} @keyframes r-imtty0{0%{opacity:0;}100%{opacity:1;}} .r-24vbc0{position:absolute;visibility:hidden;top:0;width:50px;pointer-events:none} .r-24vbc0.loaded{visibility:visible;top:50vh;width:50px} Chaos magic (also spelled "chaos magick") as a distinct modern magical paradigm first emerged in the late 1970s in West Yorkshire, England.Key milestones: 1976–1977: The foundational ideas began circulating in a loose group of occultists in Yorkshire. Early figures included Pete Carroll, Ray Sherwin, and others who were dissatisfied with the rigid hierarchies and dogmas of traditional magical orders (Golden Dawn, Thelema, Wicca, etc.). 1978: The first public statement of chaos magic principles appeared in Pete Carroll’s book Liber Null (published privately at first) and Ray Sherwin’s The Book of Results (also 1978). These two short works are considered the “founding texts” of chaos magic. In them, terms like “chaos magic,” the rejection of belief systems as tools rather than truths, and techniques like sigil magic derived from Austin Osman Spare were formalised. Late 1970s – early 1980s: The loose network called the Illuminates of Thanateros (IOT) was formed (initially as a mail-based pact in 1978–79), becoming the first formal chaos magic organisation. So the commonly accepted “birth year” of chaos magic as a self-conscious movement is 1978, with the publication and private circulation of Liber Null and The Book of Results.(For context, Austin Osman Spare’s sigil techniques from the early 20th century and Discordianism in the 1960s are important precursors, but chaos magic proper begins in 1978 with Carroll, Sherwin, and their circle explicitly branding and systematising the approach.)

I wasn’t talking about the nature of numbers but about how complex systems of large numbers of things ( eg raindrops hitting a windscreen) can be described. As random and chaotic for instance.

There are two types of chaos. One is the pre- creational state which is formless and undefinable. The other is the complexity of large numbers of things moving independently.

I don’t think there is any relation between chaos theory ad chaos magic apart from the name.

It’s Armenian, Got no cream in, It’s the coffee got you dreamin’ It’s a fact, No coffee’s like that, This side of Mount Ararat, It’s hot In the pot what we got Drink it, drink it a lot. (modest coffee rap)

frothy coffee?

Hi and welcome