dwai

*bump* and just did a price drop --

Ebook is now $2.99, Paperback is $8.99

They are all appearances. Stay with pure present awareness and let all thoughts, emotions and feelings rise and fall away.
 

Let what comes come, let what goes, go. 

In the Śāmbhavopāya of the Shiva Sutras, the next sutra is --

jñānam bandhah

Knowledge is a prison

Wonder what that means

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

undoing to me as in un-attachment to limitations of forms, thus nothing wrong with forms per-se.  Shakti can never be negated.

Nothing wrong with forms whatsoever. Just have to let go of misidentifying with them.    
 

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

Paramhansa Yogananda refining the wave in the ocean analogy further:

 

"...Imagine a bottle, he said, floating on the surface of the sea.  This bottle represents the physical body. Enclosed within it is another bottle representing the astral body.  Within that second bottle is still another, representing the causal body.  The water represented by the wave in our former analogy is contained in that innermost bottle.  It cannot merge back in the ocean until its last remaining bottle, the causal body, is broken"  

 

I’d say that according to Advaita Vedanta, the physical, astral and causal are all appearances in awareness (Atman/Brahman) and so just the realization of what our true nature is, is sufficient. 
 

Liberation isn’t some exalted state one attains by doing actions. Liberation is a result of Truly letting go of the layers of personality and body identifications - it is an “undoing”. 

I think @dawei’s reference to “Sitting and forgetting” would be an apt description.

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

Rideforever,  sounds like you are getting your interpretations of 4th way stuff mixed in here,  for if soul had to accept Spirit into itself at some point or time per the following  concept of yours (Of course when you discover "I" ... it is immediate.  But to get it inside the human soul takes time) it would not exist in the first place....what soul has to accept and work on is removal of the veils over the Spirit which already is its inner most Self. (as deeply implied by the Upanishads)   Making a better astral and or causal body  that then accepts Spirit is not it, although those bodies are very important for evolutionary workings and manifestation. 

 

I remember reading of Mr. G. being quoted  as off offhandedly saying this or that person had no soul which really missed the mark of deeper perception per Vedic related schools and teachings of Self Realized beings, a saying btw. which Mr. G  later took back.

Who’s Mr G?

6 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

Yes... forgetting 'what'  

 

I will apologize as I didn't watch the video ... but did now... twice !

 

Here are the powerful words I heard:

1. You suffer from the notion you have slipped away from it.  Even when you think you have slipped away from it,, ,you have not. 

2. Experience and memory battle to create a reality where the former is an ever present experience and the latter an attempt at recognition (of something we feel is hidden). 

3. There may be a period where we dwell on things but that is practice not enlightenment

 

I find concepts of Zhuangzi of forgetting... if you want to find the memory, you lost the ever present experience.  And Baopuzi who said practice is not natural...  dwelling on things turns us to 'practice' and then we have also lost the ever present experience .  Practice is an attempt to find that which we feel is lost, memory aspect.

 

This may not align with your position and thinking as I am not from the same thinking this is presented from... but I really liked it. 

I agree with you  

29 minutes ago, dawei said:

How do you see Zhuangzi's idea of Sitting and forgetting ? 

Forgetting what? 

51 minutes ago, EmeraldHead said:

In this thread, what awareness is and it's nature has been identified. But now, how does one let go of ignorance that is the absence of guidance of awareness?

 

- i'm not asking a trick question

There is always the guidance of awareness. Simply recognizing the core of our being as awareness is sufficient - though initially some effort is needed to operate from the new ‘center of gravity’...this is called abiding as awareness.

Ignorance is only in the mind - Awareness is ever spotless and luminous. 

18 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

exactly.

 

Qi at its most fundamental level is 'transformational information in process'... it isn't a thing - it's a process... it isn't so much a substance - it's 'information' (with the caveat that it behaves like a substance in some contexts) - it's information that's putting change into action...

 

But this explanation probably confuses more than enlightens.

 

So it's best to consider qi within its context - not as something separate or objective like we tend to want to do in our western approach to understanding things.

 

The qi of feng shui - the qi of Chinese medicine - the qi of taiji - the qi of qigong - they all have the same fundamental nature - but they're all different and have different qualities and mental models within their respective contexts...

 

The idea of qi shouldn't be considered or conceptualised in isolation from its context.

Actually Qi is both a subtle substance as well as a process. It is energy, but energy is not dumb — it is the result of the appearance of changes in awareness. So Qi is actually information. That’s why it gets so hairy if you try to pin it down. It is best to refer to it as Qi and go with one’s experience. 

Qi is Qi. Without it there is no life. Trying to define Qi in English is like trying to explain breathing in air to a fish. It is an untranslatable. 

Practice this method for a few days without fail. Then apply the technique when you're seated, standing or lying down. If you find it of interest and try it out, please do post you're thoughts on this *after* trying it out sincerely. What you're looking for is easily attainable if you can empty your proverbial cup  

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

My teacher is all for strength/power training -- with traditional taiji methods.  So he got us to practice pole shaking forms -- without using the arms, with routines developed to engage, strengthen and build up internal power that is not the kind that's "in the mind/spirit/yi" alone -- it involves core muscles/organs, alongside proprietary stuff of course -- qi, blood, LDT, martial applications.  Most moves involve generating complex motion patterns in the pole by turning it into a body part of sorts but not an extension of your arm as, e.g., with the sword -- rather, an extension growing straight out of your LDT -- 7 1/2 feet long and freakin' heavy.  Your arms will get plenty of muscle building action from just holding that thing and turning, coiling, supporting, coordinating the moves, no lifting of anything additional required for them to get a good workout.  To say nothing of the legs.  But the main action is in the internal muscles and organs gaining control, strength, mobility, resilience, all the good things.  This practice is physically rather challenging, but also exciting and fun, something I could never get myself to feel from any "reps" of anything. 

 

The interesting thing is that a beginner will invariably use external muscles instead (but hopefully not to the extent that might be detrimental to internal structure) because knowing how to use internal ones is proprietary territory of internal arts and that territory takes time to get to.  So maybe Dwai is right in his assertion that someone who already has internal workings down pat is way safer doing strength training with weights and such.  In fact, I was almost ready to add light kettlebells to my routine and got a couple, and that's when pole shaking was introduced.  So now they're collecting dust.  

The problem with living in a place where it’s freezing or below freezing for 4-5 months of the year presents a challenge in using the sword ( which gives a really good workout ) or the staff/spear. 
 

My taiji staff and swords have been collecting dust because of that. But I’ve fashioned a ‘pole shaking’ set using the Indian mace (10 lb) using the same movement principles. It’s a lot of fun to use.
 

Traditionally, the mace was used as a training tool for swords and spears too. The Indian clubs were used to train for double sword techniques (butterfly patterns etc). 

9 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

 

I see, thanks. I'll stay clear for now. When I've reached a high enough level of internal energy proficiency, I'll probably be able to discern more clearly for myself the cause effect relationship...  

btw when I say strength training I’m only using lighter weights - 15-20 lb kettlebells, 15-20 lb dumbbells, 10-20 lb Indian mace and multiple reps and slowly building up — not heavy weight lifting. Bulking up is not the objective — getting the metabolism to high gear is, counter weight gain — which is what happened to me with years of not doing this kind of physical exercise.

Also added intermittent fasting to it - 16:8 on:off ratio. 

22 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

 

Very interesting, thanks. I don't know if you follow a lineage like freeform does though that builds the body in the same manner with the fascia connecting together in the way he describes? It seems there are many differing opinions on this! At least it seems from @freeform he said that it will only cause harm in terms of development. He has said multiple times that bodyweight stuff like animal walks are great though and also things like sit ups and some push ups, but anything that involves contractive force like deadlift, squats and bench press is no bueno since it will create problems for the internal mechanics.

 

Here's the quote from first page of this thread: 

 

 

I do find it strange that it has such a potent effect on my mind when I've finished such a workout. I do not get the same rush from doing cardio or bodyweight, it is only with heavy weights and things like deadlifts, squats and bench press I get that feeling. It is like a rush of warmth through the body and can become quite euphoric, I imagine it is some androgenic hormonal response, but I have no idea. 

Tbh I don’t know much about freeform and I don’t agree with somethings he writes about.  

I know this — I used to shirk strength training and I have pretty good proficiency in taijiquan which was developed over 20 years or so. By doing strength and cardio training I’ve not lost anything yet in terms of either ting, peng, sung or spiritual clarity. Only thing was that for the first 2 months after I started working out, there was a lot of kinetic mental energy built up, but it eventually levels out. 
 

Adding a point about sung with weights - that is exactly what happens. The whole body takes up the effort, so even isolated drills like bicep curls become full body workouts. 
 

In fact I was laughing and sharing this with my personal trainer a few weeks back  

6 hours ago, anshino23 said:

 

You mean weight training or? I really liked the feeling I got after doing squats and deadlifts, but I learned from freeform that it builds the body in the completely opposite direction of what is needed for neigong and neidan, so had to let it go. Now I do running and stretching instead. 

I avoided strength training for almost 14-15 years for that very reason. 
 

Once we have developed sensitivity to Qi, and know how to clean the channels up using fajin, open the joints, feel the fascia - it can readily counter the unwanted side effects of  physical workouts (namely bulking up and losing sensitivity). 
 

I resumed strength training after 15 odd years,  after my teacher confirmed to me that it is okay to train that way. Cardio, moderate resistance and full body workouts are good for us if we are internal martial artists and certainly if our objective is health focused. 
 

It’s been 4+ months that I’ve been working out 4-5 times a week (60+ mins of strength training per day along with cardio). I’ve not seen any deleterious effect on my ting or ability or access the energetics. 
 

I think the key is moderation. Don’t over do - do as much as necessary. 

A very normal step on the way back to non-duality is getting the initial breakthrough and then eventually when mind gets distracted, to become despondent that “I had it before, now it’s gone!” 

The key is to realize that “it’s here” and “it’s gone” are both in the mind. That (Self) is not the mind but the knower and the light that illuminates the mind. With time, the paranoia about losing our ‘spirituality’ will disappear.  

13 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Well said.

 

I believe we are all on a journey towards "realization of our inherent complete nature."  It can be a solo journey but most people´s evolution is furthered by partnership.  Marriage is in service of exactly this realization and this is why marriage is so notoriously difficult.

Spouses often are the toughest teachers  

1 hour ago, GSmaster said:

 

Monks have big issues as being celibate does not help them to control or use sexual energy, it essentially closes up the channel.

 

Might be the reason why monks dont work with Qi practices and internal energy as they dont have Jing to support those practices.

 

 

The orgasm lifeform is talking about is when you have ejaculation jolt and either lose semen, or prevent it by pressing lock pressure. It is a discharge and it does not last for an hour. 

 

Ecstasy is a different thing and it can last for hours without any arousal or sex.

 

The two (orgasm and ecstasy) are part of the same spectrum - bliss. ‘Ecstasy’ can be accompanied with a physical reaction (or not). But what most people don’t realize is that sexual stimulation doesn’t start with the body, it is a reaction of the mind.
 

The mind in turn reacts to the energetic configuration of (gasp...I’m going to use a Hindu word) the second chakra. It arises as a strong excitation in that chakra. As to why it does so is a result of seeking completion. 

What is the nature of this ‘seeking completion’? 
 

Each of us have a male and female aspect. With the physical body and the limited mind, the gender which gets reinforced as the dominant aspect will seek completion. It will try to find completion in its opposite (energetic - May or May not equate to gender). That is the basis of sexual desire. It is different from the biological imperative to procreate (that is for the animals).

So by suppressing this urge or by outright repressing it, we are stymying our natural tendency for expansion from a limited state (body-mind) to a state of completion. It is detrimental to spiritual growth. 
 

When the completion occurs, a deep sense of fulfillment permeates our experience - it feels like a sponge which is fully soaked in water, and that then soaks into everything that comes in contact with it.
 

For most the completion can happen with a physical partner. For a few others, it can happen with an energetic partner. For the even rarer few, it comes from the realization of our inherent complete nature (transcending gender completely at the spiritual level). 

This fear of orgasm and sex is a myth introduced to keep monks celibate and focused on their studies. Yes, sex can be distracting for people who have an unhealthy obsession with it. Usually that is a result of repression. 

Perform the act when the need arises and then move on. If you can perform the act with mindfulness, it is quite liberating. 
 

if you’ve ever had an hours long ‘orgasm’ without even touching or being with another person you’ll understand how powerful it is. That is what a real orgasm is — involving the body, mind and spirit - compete ecstasy. Funnily enough when you seek/chase it, it doesn’t happen. 

12 minutes ago, Lataif said:

Please:

 

Anyone come across any mention anywhere of "black chi" (?)

 

Or maybe . . . "dark chi" (?)

 

Thanks . . .

 

Never heard of it but I’ve seen black tar like energy — sticky and nasty. Usually associated with a negative phenomenon and/or entity.  

A question that I’ve asked and others I know also have — in fact it is a frequent question in the process of nidhidhyāsanam (Advaita Vedantic practice/meditation) : “How can I stay constantly aware of my True Nature?” 
 

Swami Sarvapriyananda answers beautifully  — 

3 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

If "experts" were to put their respective views together, the resulting picture of jing would perhaps look something like this...

 

 

For me, the best way to relate to one's jing is to find out as much as possible about who you really are.  Jing is fundamental memory of who you are, minus all the false memories imposed socially, culturally and traumatically.  Losing that memory is not compensated by accepting someone's narrative.  Any statements along the lines of, "you are _____________" are understood only by your neocortex.  One thing is certain -- you are not your neocortex.  E.g., when they say things like "you are not your body," it's the neocortex that formulates that idea, and by doing that, it is merely telling its own story.  Yes, it is, indeed, not your body.  It is the youngest, least experienced, consequently least wise, and sadly most arrogant and verbose part of your brain, is all.  It talks outta its neoass.

 

Your body and your mind together know who you are, neither one does separately.  I don't believe pitching one against the other is conductive to health and happiness.  Your jing is four billion years old, and its story is the story of life on earth -- for starters.  It's not the story of what this or that guru preached from this or that sacred book serving this or that psyop purpose.  It's the story of the environment that is the spirit co-arising and co-created with the body that embodies it perfectly.  Trying to make it your story once again, to the extent possible, is the best way to relate to one's jing IMO.  

 

 That zebtahlephant ... 

26 minutes ago, EmeraldHead said:

This for example, the daoists say 5 things not 4. emptiness and dao are distinct. even lao tzu has his 5 steps of existence, not 4. The emptiness elixir and the dao elixir are totally different. I remember reading an article from purple cloud blog just last month.

In regards to the Elixir Dao, he completed the process of Refinement of the Void and the Unification with the Dao " http://purplecloudinstitute.com/saints-sages-part-vii-張三豐-zhang-san-feng-1247/

Instead you just call it one and using some hindu lineage for it and then call it light. Light is still external from/known to you - a kosha. Atman is beyond the koshas.

Anyway, I will stop because I am off-topic.

not the light of awareness — which is what I mean by light. Atman is awareness and it is light  

50 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Question for any of our resident jing experts who care to reply, @dwai @freeform @Taomeow.  Suppose a Bum has modest aims (health and happiness) and wants to relate to their jing in an optimum way -- what advice would you give?

I’m no ‘expert’ at anything but I found that eating healthy foods, doing taijiquan or some similar IMA/yoga + pranayama help. 
 

Another aspect I’m rediscovering after shunning for many years now is a good physical workout regimen. Get a good 3-4 days of strength training and cardio in every week. Makes a big difference for me. 

EDIT— Oh another thing I was reminded of just now is that stop over-dependence on concepts. Concepts are great to start with but can soon end up imprisoning us. We might have the most powerful technique in the world,  but if we get caught up on concepts without direct experience to corroborate them, we end up neutralizing much of the power of said technique. 

An open mind and open heart is very essential to live a healthy and happy  life imho.