dwai

https://www.amazon.com/Apprenticed-Himalayan-Master-Yogis-Autobiography/dp/8191009609 https://www.amazon.com/Living-Himalayan-Masters-Swami-Rama/dp/0893891568/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Swami+Rama&qid=1631570271&s=books&sr=1-2 https://www.amazon.com/Sadhguru-Mystic-Vision-Beyond-Paperback/dp/B00RWSRTXO/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=Sadhguru&qid=1631570300&s=books&sr=1-7

I was trying to find an amazing video that goes from microscopic to macroscopic scale which illustrates how simple patterns transform into complex systems. I’ll post when I find it. For now, here’s an interesting one —

Was on a walk today and noticed the leaves turning yellow as fall sets in. I closely inspected a leaf and noticed that the green in the leaf was gradually shrinking in a fractal pattern much the same as a plant grows in fractal patterns (branching fractal). Energy expands/moves in a spiral pattern (also a fractal pattern). It dawned on me that the “dying” of the leaves, which is a recession of energy/life itself, follows a reverse pattern of “coming alive”. This triggered a memory of conversations that have happened here about simplicity and complexity. Some (most) people view life, energy, nature and awareness as complex. I (and most nondualists) consider awareness to be the most simple, most rudimentary “building block” (some call it existence itself). When this expands, and since awareness in motion is energy or life force, it does so in spiral patterns. When this expands at a large enough scale, it takes on the appearance of complexity (much like the plant, or even a leaf). Is it plausible that what is considered life, is merely an expanding fractal of awareness/energy? Similarly, is what is considered death, merely a reversal of said expansion? Kind of like inhalation and exhalation go together. You can’t have one without the other — yang and yin, or yin and yang or simultaneously yin-yang, depending on what perspective one considers the process from. The outgoing breath can be considered as death, or it could be considered as making room for incoming breath, hence life. Or could it be considered both life and death at once — life-death, like yin-yang?

moderator note - Old3Bob has made disrespectful comments against another member on this thread and therefore is restricted from posting on the forum for a set period of time.

Some mantras, I found make it so, that there is progressively greater pauses of stillness as we repeat them. Some others are not quite so, and require active focus. In the Hindu/Vedic mantras, those with lower number of syllables tend to be in the former category. Those with more syllables seem to be in the latter category. unrelated to TM, but a general rule of practice in the Hindu tradition is what is called a “purascharana”. One purascharana is 100,000 x number of syllables in the mantra. Depending on one’s karma, the benefits of a mantra can be attained by performing one or more such cycles. For some it can happen with a lower count, if they’ve done part of the work in a previous lifetime.

And (as most probably already know this) — there is a sensation of “falling in”, like if you suddenly lost the ground you stand on, only the mind goes deeper into stillness (like from the turbulent ocean surface going deeper and deeper). We have to be watchful or else the “surprise” of this “falling in” sensation can jerk us out of meditation. But with time this becomes a welcome process.

Thats' the way to start the inner work. Sinking the qi is step 1 IMHO, this Nei Dan/Neigong distinction is a false dichotomy and a recent development. The main teacher of my system never distinguishes between Neigong and Neidan, and yet, most of what he teaches as Daogong would be considered Neidan practices.

What is so hard to understand. There are both the ingredients and the "cooked" stuff. All refinement is based on the level of clarity/purity in our minds, and the ability of the mind to consolidate (as opposed to scattered by thoughts/emotions/feelings). Once the mind is consolidated, "qi" consolidates. Once qi consolidates, it can be directed to be stored in the dantien. Where is the need to over-complicate and make it sound like it is harder than it is (being able to consolidate the mind is a lifelong endeavor for most of us)? Stand, release and let the qi sink to the dantien. As the mind consolidates, the qi will consolidate and condense in the stomach area to the size of a golf ball. There's more to it, but mostly it will result in great outcries of disbelief and outrage if I share that info here openly In any case, it's best to not confuse the heck out of Dev -- he should pick a path and stick with it until he experiences the fruits of that path.

Agreed. I don't particularly subscribe to that view that the dan needs to be created. I've been told by my teachers, and my own experience also tells me that this is already present. How it's been explained to me is as follows "Think of the Dantien as an oven where you have a small fire going. The teacher will turn that into a big(ger) fire, which then you have to tend to and maintain/grow as you continue to practice". One can even grow this "fire" on their own, but it will take longer than if the teacher provided an accelerant. There are many strong opinions here that articulate that point of view.

better to learn to release and sink the Qi first. The stretching will come on its own when the Qi starts to radiate out from the dantien (imho). Beginners don’t really know how to be subtle with their bodies (unless they’re really gifted or physically very weak). Good, but there are many proponents of “the dantien needs to be created” too

There’s a lot of mythology around “stretching” and the “drumskin” concept. If you’re referring to the taiji classic - it has less to do with the physical body and more to do with Qi itself, and the surface tension of the energy field (like the surface tension of an inflated ball). Is that what you were referring to? Yes stretching is important, but it is not a physical/muscular stretching as I know it. It happens as a result of qi. Beginners can’t really achieve that kind of stretch — so it’s better to learn to release and learn to sink the Qi to the dantien (and no, dantien doesn’t need to be created - only identified via proper posture and relaxed focus of the mind).

One last piece of friendly advise, and then I’ll leave you in the good hands of the residents experts here… The reason why it’s suggested to lean forward slightly with the upper torso is because we tend to think we’re standing perfectly straight but end up leaning backward — this is especially true if you can’t suspend the crown and the martial crown is not raised up (which why we tuck the chin in slightly). The slight leaning forward also activates the Kua. These things take a bit of playing around with to find the correct combination — which will vary from person to person. Main thing is to relax the mind — if you’re constantly fretting over how your posture is, your qi will not sink. Just stand and let your mind rest in the lower abdomen area. If your posture is incorrect, your mind will move to where there is discomfort. The mind is blocked when it’s occupied. When it is unoccupied (with thoughts), it is unblocked. Without unblocking your mind, you can’t make progress in the internal arts.

@Dev if you’re interested in what I have to say, feel free to PM me. Obviously it’s not a good idea to have too many cooks/recipes.

That is possible to do just as well by balancing the weight between the heels and the balls of the feet. I've seen various versions of this kind of instruction -- "spread the tarsal bones wider, apply more weight/pressure on the K1 point, treat the big toe, K1 point and the center of the heel as 3 nails you've dug into the earth and so on". FWIW, in my experience (and I've been doing this for more than 20 years now) -- the best way to stand in wuji is when you are neither falling forward nor backward -- and your weight simply falls through to the ground. The more important thing to watch out for in wuji stance is really about suspending the crown point, tucking the chin slightly, leaning the torso slightly forward, and letting the chest muscles sink downward. Another thing is to not let your toes splay out -- keep the toes perpendicular to each other or even better, slightly splayed inward.

I don’t know about that. Seems to open quite well without physically stretching the area. If you stand “correctly” it doesn’t take much time to start feeling the Qi. Just think about it, if you’re perched up on the balls of your feet for long periods of time (like a ballerina), you essentially are holding a “calf raise”. Why won’t your calf muscles not “burn/sting” or even cramp?

If you are unable to wiggle your toes in this position, you’re putting too much weight on the front part of the feet. The weight needs to be distributed evenly between your heels and the balls of the feet.

https://www.banyanbotanicals.com/info/ayurvedic-living/living-ayurveda/diet/chyawanprash/

Or maybe Vato Loco

Indian traditions have a very detailed exposition on the power of sound (Vak). Kashmiri Shaivism presents the concept of matrika chakra (the mother wheel) which shows how the universe manifested from a seed sound. Similar idea also exists in the Vedic tradition as well. http://www.ravikhanna.com/matrika-shakti-as-explained-in-the-shaktopaya-of-the-shiva-sutras/3

Or is it a form of samadhi?

If they are real monks or yogis, then I doubt if their chants are empty But I don’t consider your yoga booty latte slurping lululemon wearing yoga studio types to even be fake yogis.

It works in both directions. Only, we are tracing the breadcrumbs back to the source, so we’re following the reverse path — nivritti. Sound arises from silence — so we’re just reversing the step. In mantra practice, the weakest/lowest level is vocal chanting. Next is mental chanting, and then it is activating the deity/energetic aspect behind the mantra directly. Highest is silence.

Actually there are plenty of Hindu priests, monks and initiates who have been trained in the Vedic system that know exactly how to do it. The system hasn’t changed in 1000s of years.

actually the vocalized mantra is the lowest level practice. Yes. One method of Advaita Vedanta meditation involves silent meditation on prolonged Om chants.

I would venture to say it’s not so. Om is not just a mantra, it is the primordial seed sound, a reverberation of the absolute itself. There is a lot of nuance to “om” and an entire meditation practice is based on simply chanting and meditating on this “sound”. Om comprises of 4 parts - “A” (like the sound aaaaa), “U” (oooo) and “M” (mmmm), followed by an equal measure of silence. When one meditates on Om in the vedantic way, one is performing a sacrificial ritual of sorts, into silence and stillness. A represents the waking state and the waking world. U represents dream state and the dreaming world, M represents the silence of deep sleep and absence of phenomena therein. In the chanting of Om one goes from the manifest world to the unmanifest. The silence is that which in which the waking, Dreaming and deep sleep states arise and fall. When you articulate Om as AUM, you can see how it correlates to going from the manifest to unmanifest. It is the power of three lineages/ancient traditions of the world - Hindu, Buddhist and Jain. So no, “One” is not as effective as Om in my humble opinion