Trunk

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Posts posted by Trunk

  1. Posted

    (could be that I'm somewhat off-topic from the actual pt of this thread, just ignore if so, but - what's percolating ...)

     

    on a fairly physical angle related to the LDT ...

    *If* there are tangles in the nerve plexuses, torques n' adhesions in the fascia of the abdominal area, it can be a layered very long term project to work through.  And the abdominal layers cover the LDT and up further the torso so - if open and functioning well, allows various ventilation, harmonization among.  If not, then puts a partial lid on the LDT, inhibits the integral function.

     

    This sort of 'core' work is more common these days (pilates, etc), but my observation is that aspirants often get to that layered excavation late (because so many other things are easier, because the strength of youth masks lack of esoteric development, etc).  If you made it through puberty with that region in really good shape, and you haven't had any major car wrecks nor kitchen fires since, then lucky you: provides much more fluently integral vitality.  For those with issues, it's a notoriously stubborn region.

     

    A lot of the traditional internal arts (belly dancing, bagua, xing yi, yoga) have various exercises that separate and articulate the layers of abdominal tissue.  That prepares a space, so that a LDT could occur (at all .. or more frequently, deeper, more integral).

     

    Fact is, the LDT includes our densest physiology, energies and psyche and, also (of course, 'cause She's all over) a connection to God.  That's quite a spread.  And, everything runs through there (we've an integral body).  It just seems like a fluent and thorough integration, *especially* of the LDT, includes many layers and is long term cultivation.

     

    Seems to me that the broad areas to look at are:

    - health

    - behavior

    - transpersonal integration

     

    And as far as potential depth, how far does it go?

    Ask Padmasambhava.

     

    There are levels.

    ... but, hey, for some people they just feel basically well put together, basic healthy.  Good on 'm.

    and perhaps no sense of 'pregnancy', of latent pressure ... of that incessant silent drive for divine integration that inspires, frustrates n' propels some of us ol' nuts over our whole lives.

     

    - Keith

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  2. Posted

    42 minutes ago, ChimpSage said:

    All that being said, what is the harm in calling them ...

     

    I wasn't trying to give advice to others about how to talk,

    just shouting out my own working-things-out into the digital universe.

    If my viewpt is of use, well that's lucky.  Easily could be not.

     

    fwiw, imo, you've made legit & discerning pts.

    Good conversation.

    :)

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  3. Posted

    2 hours ago, ChimpSage said:

    I suppose, but at the end of the day, there is always a clear and concise definition for every term if you truly understand it.

     

    Dantian is the elixir field. If the field is not used to build the elixir, it’s not a dantian.

     

    ...

     

    Being okay with inaccuracies without ever correcting them is how we lose the art

     

    All good points.

     

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    There's 3 definitions of dantian that "I've heard".

    - Ren-6 (or somewhat inward from that).

    - The relationship between the navel and the life-gate (between the kidneys) - and other pts and tissues engaged in body - to shift into "embryonic breathing".  It's a deep-deep nourishing physical practice.

     

    Both of the above are oriented around health and physicality (even if very deep and esoteric) harmonization, integration, nourishment.

     

    - integrating with (what I call) the "deep-center", the small quiet still place, the mysterious pass (where the lower center intersects with the central channel ~ sushumna), to integrate with the One Medicine, Spacious Luminous Awareness, transpersonal awareness, etc.  This is what I think of as the most deeply authentic.

     

    (And when I hear people say 'dantian', I am often uncertain about their intended meaning, and I have doubts that they understand what they intend to mean .. and I am curious as to what their actual experience is ..)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

     

    That's just "what I've heard".  I do not claim to be deeply stable and fluently accomplished in this area.  I have enough experience to see that all 3 of the above are true, but still working on putting it all together with deeper stability and integration.  Can I connect to the One Medicine in my LDT fluently, reliably, (nearly) every time?  Nope.  Same re: embryonic breathing?  Nope.  And so I'm cautious about throwing around simple terms in navigating my own internal practice, that those simple terms mask the complexity of what I'm actually experiencing.

     

    There are lots of layers of structure; there's a lot going on.  There's opening the various layers of tissue, there's sinew-changing through the abdominal area, (both of which are long term projects, perpetual even) ... and how that all connects to organs, channels, tissues, the rest of my body.  There's the processing of vitality and digestion.  There's a lot going on.

     

    And, so, I am cautious in my own speaking (just for my own level, for myself, and not chastising anyone else for their expression - just slowly working out my own stuff) ... when I talk to myself about my practice ... while I know some taught maps and headed in those directions, and I do have some experience ... my own experience is not "fully baked" and I shy away from classic words that cover a complex territory with a single simple term that maybe I don't fully understand in the first place.  To stay engaged and connected to my actual process, of patiently placing attention (yi) in an area and simply being open, curious, patient, calm, tenacious, smooth integrative.

     

    " all writing is a campaign against cliché. Not just clichés of the pen but clichés of the mind and clichés of the heart."

    - Martin Amis

     

    - Keith

     

    p.s.

    Often there are several (many, sometimes) interpretations for a Daoist term.  Different legit layers or methods, also misinterpretations.  it's often a mess.  I'd agree that connecting the LDT to the One Medicine is what makes it a *really* authentic dantian, but I'd also say that a lot of the work is to integrate the pieces, the layers - of very physical to very subtle - to integrate, work together harmoniously.

     

    *ugh*, yet more ...

    imho, any major dantian (or chakra) connects to the One Medicine at it's intersection with the central channel.  And, as that resonance develops, the whole central channel resonates with the Big Light like the filament of a light bulb.

     

    lightbulbfilament.jpg

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  4. Posted

    On 12/25/2023 at 11:06 AM, ChimpSage said:

    In my opinion, the only true Dantian is the one used to create the elixir.

     

    .. not really the true Dantian if it’s not being used for alchemy. It’s a false Dantian...

     

    Better terminology ..

     

    I think there's a wide range of what each of us understand as 'elixir' and 'dantian'.  Both varying from each other and also varying degrees of/from accuracy... accuracy of actual structure and from various teachings.

     

    It's a worthy struggle to:

    - understand what the teachings mean

    - connect to our own experience in a grounded way, and not letting the terminology disconnect us from the curiosity and engagement  of "what is there?".

    Every teacher I've heard speak has struggled to put their practices, and traditional teachings, into common english language that connects.  It's not easy.

     

    ... more later ...

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  5. Posted

    On 12/26/2023 at 3:31 AM, Daniel said:
    Quote

    Delusion ---> craving/aversion ---> suffering.

     

    See, it's not neutral.  The assertion is:  "You are causing your own suffering"  That's an insult.

     

    disclaimer: I'm not claiming to represent any tradition, just my own thoughts - but there's a lot of overlap.

     

    Seems to me that the concepts of forward (manifesting) and reverse (unmanifesting) are pertinent.

     

    forward

    I just observe that physical life has challenges, pleasures and suffering and - from the perspective of the world and the body in a certain way, you're gonna suffer.  Even, imo, the *very* advanced beings I've been lucky to be around.  Their body still feels pain.  (When they are not in meditation, ) they have a personality and deal with, and have (not always perfect) responses to, the struggles of life.

     

    In dealing in the world, forward, it's necessary to have a persona (thoughts, attitudes, skills, etc) in order to interact functionally in the world.  A persona, or 'ego' one might say ... though, I know that colloquially 'ego' often has negative connotations of being stuck on one's self and self aggrandizing, there is just the functional conglomeration of stuff amorphous consciousness needs in order to act like person in functional way.

     

    reverse

    Merging with spacious awareness, transpersonal awareness, the One medicine, luminous emptiness, God.  Humbling one's self to the dialectic between drop and Ocean.  This can become so strong that it mostly overwhelms the discomforts of physical life, certainly accessible to many at least for short periods.  More fluently, more skillfully and wisely, gradually deeper - over the course of one's life.

    (I'm just going to stop there at that level that is relatively grounded, real, accessible, not super advanced legendary esoteric.)

     

    The drop ~ Ocean integration, development, skill can develop with education on how it's done, and practice.

    Just like many other skills.

     

    So.

    Could you say that it's someone's fault that they've not developed the level of skill, development, that they've not eliminated all of their suffering?  And take it as an insult?  ... or that little kids etc?

    I can see how someone could take, argue, that pt of view - but I find it so out of proportion with reality, and so askew of the intent and perspective of the teachings ... that it's not, imo, a fair understanding of what Buddha was offering (even the little bit that I've gotten from it) nor how that relates to the realities of living cultivation.

     

    Do some of the Buddhist teachings get interpreted in extreme ways?  Yup, imho.  And leads to some legit analytical critiques, imo.

    Are there streams of Buddhism that seek to bridge middle ways?  Yep. 

    ... that train in gradual development that leads to solace from the built-in suffering of life?  Yep.

    Are there streams of Buddhism that develop a "Light body" that resonates with Universal Light?  Yup (vajrayana).

     

    Ok, 'nuff yakkin',

    Trunk

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  6. Posted

    It’s been a rough year.  I’m no astrologer, but geez.

     

    This Christmas morning I’m reflecting and … a lot of treasured things come and go, things are built, things are up-ended; it happens.  What continues to be of meaning?  What continues to be inspiring and renewing?  Perennially: the internal process.

     

    And, by extension, the community process of muddling through, clarification, mutual support.

     

    Thank you each for sharing your sincerity, 

    your practice,

    your experience.

     

    - Keith

     

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  13. Posted

    1 hour ago, HumanElectric said:

    By the way, I just want to give you your flowers for helping to put the Dragon Gate Sanctuary practice out there. I used to follow the both of your posts many years ago (2011 or 12?). DGS helped to keep my interest up enough to continue seeking out respectable Neigong/neidan practices. @Trunk @zerostao big s/o to the teacups

     

    Thank you!

     

    .. for those not familiar with Sifu Matsuo, Dragon Gate Sanctuary, here 're links:

    Youtube, Facebook, DGS intro page that I wrote up after being introduced to the school by @zerostao,

    one, two, three threads here at TDBs.

    ~ now back to your regularly scheduled thread ~

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  15. Posted

    On 12/7/2023 at 9:22 AM, HumanElectric said:

    My teacher calls it Authentic Neigong. His lineage is unspoken, but this is the name we call our practice. 

     

    To the extent that you feel appropriate to share ...  could you say something about what qualities and/or principles, goals, structural emphasis (any of that, or other, that you might choose) ... that designates a practice as neigong?

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  20. Posted

    On 11/20/2023 at 10:16 AM, NaturaNaturans said:

    Good evening good folks. Id assume you have considered it [an Abrahamic subforum], so what made you decide to not go ahead with it?

     

    [edit: save yourself some frustration and skip to the bottom of this message, to after I’d looked up the word :rolleyes::D ]

     

    my own perspective on the formative arc of this forum ...

    Originally conversation was at Chia's Healing Tao forum, then transitioned to here.  The emphasis was always generically "cultivation methods and results", but initially with strong umbrella of modern Taoist origins, then broadened to include various other eastern religions, and modern eastern influenced schools ... all with an emphasis on cultivation methods, sharing experience, resources and results.

     

    All of this within the context of western culture where varieties of Christianity are predominant and the eastern influenced cultivation scene is slowly establishing a practical foot-hold.  I never saw a need to include a special forum area for traditional western religions, as my view was always that there's already lots of that in current western culture.  However, I have no qualms about someone talking from the perspective of *any* religion and - as I review the topic now - there ought to be at least some area that includes "any religious orientation not already specifically listed".  Honestly, I don't know what "Abrahamic" religion is, specifically.  I'll have to look it up.  (And so I'd not previously considered it as a subforum.)

     

    I still have some orientation of this forum to steer toward

    1. cultivation method/s, results, resources ... and also principles & theory that assist in understanding practices and results.

    2. an emphasis towards methods & schools that are of eastern origin, yet not exclusive

    3. inclusive of some general area/s for religion/s not specifically listed

     

    I'll review #3 to see if adjustments seem in order.

     

    - Trunk

    admin

     

    p.s.

    I am open to fine tuning on this.

    cc:

    @steve, @dwai, @ilumairen, @zerostao

     

     

    ~~~~ EDIT ~~~~

     

    Agggghhhhhh!  Yup, embarrassingly woefully ignorant of a certain term:

    Quote

    The term Abrahamic religions refers to the categorization of certain religions; most notably Judaism, Christianity and Islam, centered around the worship of one God (God in Abrahamic religions). Abraham, a Hebrew patriarch and Islamic prophet is extensively mentioned in the religious scriptures of the Hebrew and Christian Bibles, and the Quran.

     

    Yep: perfect.

    We oughta have an Abrahamic subforum.

    I was not previously aware that there was that broad category.

    (Also, the whole formation arc that I wrote about previously in this post.)

     

    That setup is good and still can suit the emphasis of TDBs.

     

    A concern that I do have, is that some Abrahamic traditions can be aggressively sectarian in fundamental orientation.  That can lead to all sorts of trouble, at least in this eclectic environment.  Seems to me likely that making that section as broad and inclusive as “Abrahamic” + the TDBs context to begin with … I suspect and hope will neutralize excessive sectarianism.

     

    I’m happy to add that space, and we’ll see how it goes.

    :D

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  25. Posted

    On 9/12/2023 at 11:16 AM, Trunk said:

    One issue of concern has been harmonizing the intensity of results.   … After some experimentation, embarrassingly convenient solution: regular kymq, just the hands.  …

     

    p.s.

    The saying, "with the right lever, I could move anything".

    I'd suggest that, for some people, kymq(cb) may be 'the right lever' ...

    that dramatic improvement of ease

     

    types-of-lever.jpg

     

    I’ve found that both the finger-knitting mudras and kymq are good not only for harmonizing the intensity of kymq(cb) work but also, as a result of the cb work …

     

    ... that both of those methods (kymq + mudras) have gained access (meaning: access, refine, integrate) to *much* heavier layers (tissue, fluid, energy) of deep-core internal work.

    B)

     

    re-visiting various

    jdpmudramindseal-sig.jpg

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