TranquilTurmoil

PS after craving shortcuts for many years I ve finally come to a resignation/loss of desire for full enlightenment whilst still devoted to pursuing the way wholeheartedly and sincerely. Which I think is actually quite a fast path in it of itself paradoxically!

I understand how you interpreted that statement, but allow me to explain: I spent 7.5+ years plumbing the depths of patience/forbearance/kshanti paramita largely involuntarily out of a necessity. Now the I Ching has taken the shackles off me, and I have switched my focus from patiently waiting for a time to take action/using waiting itself as practice to: Resolute Discernment and responsive natural, compassionate action. I can’t practice coerced stillness anymore without violating my nature it seems to me. However, I have no intention of taking over, I just follow line 2 of hexagram 16: “Recognizing the seeds, not waiting even a day.” This means acting when it’s time to act, trying to cultivate tranquil/stillnesss/fulfillment when it’s not. But I slept away days for many years on my cultivation path bc I was in agonizing solitude with no real willful practices to throw myself into, or a healthy enough body anymore to sit long hours of meditation with a decent posture. I recognize forbearance in many ways IS the path… it’s just naturally fallen to the wayside in my path at this time. hope that clarifies and that I’m on the right track! 🙏🏼☯️

I’m with you! That was a profound comparative study I’d say. Personally especially in my early years Ego would grasp at anything exotic, exalted, transcendent, somatic, etc. this led me reluctantly away from concentration/energy practices as even if I managed to do them safely and correctly they might be more detrimental than beneficial. I think following the Eightfold Path with a skillful path/practice to self awareness and having a good mirror are all we need to make profound progress. If one desires to either progress faster than that, or to indulge in exalted states of consciousness probably has wrong intention. I hope this is reaffirming and helpful. -Elliot

I’m expecting a similar response to this question as the previous one but here goes: I know next to nil about not just the esoteric concepts of body/bodies and the five elements and dantiens/chakras, but the principles of how Qi/chi works, how to manage Qi flow, and all the related things. I do feel different types of energy in my body at diff times, and generally feel the overall chi of body that I would describe as subtle ethereal essence within or analogous to the physical body. As I alluded to in another thread I had a severe energy eruption (Qi deviation?) 7.5 years ago and a couple minor energy mishaps within that year. I’m not particularly worried about it happening again anymore, but was curious if this is a good Avenue to investigate? Can never be too careful… especially as I have thrown patience and forbearance to the wind in the last month or two. ☯️

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But are they the same thing? Is mahamudra the same as the emptiness of zen? The Nirvana of the Theravada? The Brahman of Vedanta? Is there one true emptiness? Creator? Is this a cosmic accident or divine plan? Is true self simultaneously realized with no self? Is it a progression with one being a deeper attainment than the other?Yes/no/both/neither… all of the above? I infer that their is Unborn reality accessible to everyone… but I have no idea if it’s really the same or not. I have also read that not just past and future are illusory, that the present is too. Either way it is helpful to live in the now and not get lost in past and future. But how can me and you know if everything is not only empty, but empty of emptiness? And is suchness/tathagathagarba not essence? I don’t mean to insinuate that “I” have the answer to these questions or that they are definitively unknowable, but I don’t see the utility in adopting these specific beliefs just yet, and when I can insight into them, I doubt I will be omnicient or have the ability to know if my truth I discovered is the same truth universally. food for thought 🙏🏼

Too lazy to quote but fwiw I think my only real mental “illness” is radical clarity and reckless devotion… which some might call delusions of grandeur/magical thinking and a lack of self-awareness ! just to clarify 🙏🏼

"Misfortune is what Fortune depends on Fortune is where Misfortune hides beneath Who knows their ultimate end Or if they have no determined Outcome?" -TTC 58 (LIn) I cant figure out the whole unity/multiplicity of atman/buddha-nature vs/complementing/merged with shunyata/emptiness/no-self/non-self so I cant comment on the view of no intrinsic nature belief/understanding. However in my experience, when insight occurs in the field of mind consciousness, it is often Seeing the past with a super clarity inaccessible to intellectual knowledge or regular memory. I cant speak to the future, but i like to think my Oracle can! Maybe you can help deepen my understanding. *Forgoes bowing, and hops around like a sparrow slapping own buttocks like that crazy sage in the outer chapters of Zhuangzi* **Then bows!**

There is a lot to unpack here. We perceive reality according to where we are in this moment. I see your wisdom from an absolute perspective, but as someone who lives in a relative world (at least as much), I think a balanced middle way approach is what is best. To clarify, I recognize the opportunity in obstacles and rejection, the value of what Castaneda called "petty tyrants", and the illusory nature of identity. However, I dont believe glossing over human suffering, believe in fate and destiny whilst not fully fathoming mestaphyiscal law/truth so cant really speculate on your inferences and analysis fully. My homeless friend from Liberia always told me (not sure how to spell this) Zon Zigo! What is going to happen will happen! Every disappointment is a blessing. I believe that there is potential benefit to every karmic occurence, but idk if there is intrinsic benefit to them. And im not so non dual as to abandon the notions of benefit and harm altogether. And Im pretty good at accepting and loving and validating myself, but while some believe the past is an illusion, i believe regardless, it is always with us. i just dont want to "cash out" i want to keep giving, growing, and healing. i appreciate your thoughtful feedback friend.

Hey bums. I am an occasional lover of literature, but my intellect and requisite knowledge sometimes doesn't quite always work with certain types of fiction. I bought the aforementioned Overstory some months back and didnt get very far. I did enjoy The Alchemist a year ago as my first foray into spiritual fiction, and I was moved "Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close" which I bonded over with my dad, as well as the first book of the Mistborn trilogy at my friends reccomendation. However, since then I've been in a fiction funk and have foregone all things not explicitly Dharma or Tao. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestion on cultivating wise intention or enthusiam for reading, Then book suggestions always help. I think reading could be a good healing modality and also help me cultivate emotional independence as i spend a lot of time in solitude. Thanks.

Focusing on the bolder part, I ve come to terms (I think) with the decisions I ve made, path I have taken, and I no longer seem to feel much shame/regret. What “holds me back now” is that I haven’t been able to come to terms with samsara, with society, with the people I thought were my loyalest friends (and probably were at one point). To quote my fav artist/rapper in college (who has deep flaws and unethical mistakes made) that summed up my desolation for years: ”Psychosomatic, addict, insane. in my own nation like the Vatican, mayne” 💙🙏🏼💔

First of all thanks so much to all those who have welcomed here and dont seem to mind my rapid posting. I feel like i have developed enough a repore now to try to seize the day and work on my deepest, most unresolved wounds i carry with me with those who are inclined to listen and practice loving speech. to do this i would like to unpack and crowd source wise perspective on something I could never satisfactorily discuss with really anyone. I have alluded to having demonic nightmares in other threads in 2013. That in itself led to profound trauma and anxiety/fear of deviating of deviating from my I Ching prescribed path, as in my unripe perspective I ascribed cosmic meaning to the nightmares: that i was punished for deviating from my path. Fast forward a few months and a couple significant spiritual misunderstanding combined with a lack of guidance: I started sleeping about an hour or two a night for I think a month or two. Some nights Id forego sleep altogether. As this progressed I started experiencing minor hallucinations that I could generally discern as being hallucinations, as a result of my sleep deprivation. The exception to this is that I started literally Seeing light and dark energy or I believe I did. In my enviroment Id see little dots of dark or sometimes little orbs of light i think whizzing by. When I would think an unwholesome thought or do an unwholesome action I would See a little bit of light leaving my body. Now at this point of my training I had developed quite a bit of spiritual hubris and inferior virtue and disdain. I would condemn the masses, talk up my progress, and imitate the words and behaviors of those I admired. I say this because one morning this all culminated in a disaster of epic proportions. I consulted the I ching and got hexagrams 45.2.3 -> 28. For those unfamiliar with that configuration hexagram 28 refers to "Prepoderance of the Great" where the ridgepole (foundation) sags to the breaking point and if you "succumb to incorrect behaviors" the "dam bursts and the pent up energy you have accumulated leads to destruction and misfortune" This wasnt my first time recieving hexagram 28, but my first time under such intense circumstances. at some point that morning I made a mild and what i thought was an innocent boast to my mom about how my Cat liked me better than her. Within an instant i saw an orb of light leave my body and an orb of darkness approach me head on. Within moments, it was like a volcano erupted internally: A intense amount of energy I couldnt even percieve before erupted and all my energy dispersed in a vasicillating disturbed and disturbing way. At this moment shock and panic set in. The night before one of my hallucinations was seeing an evil statue on a table in my living room that had pictures of my deceased grandpartents (whom i wasnt that close to.) I dont remember if it was a hallucination that stayed or dissolved or not but nonetheless after I walked towards that room in shock a couple minutes later, processing what had just happened, I accidentally looked towards the table, saw the evil statue and its energy went flying across the room into my (energetic?) body. Skipping the gory details of the week or two that followed for the moment while I have shared this experience to varying extents with others, I never have had the opportunity to share it with anyone with the requisite knowledge and faith to contextualize and not label it at best kundalini syndrome, and much more commonly and alienatingly "psychosis". I was inspired to share this this morning after stumbling upon this tricycle article: https://tricycle.org/magazine/demons-mouth/ about MIlarepa facing demons in his cave. I think finding how to make sense of this situation, feeling understood, and figuring out how to relate to the experiences and fears that surround it would go a long way towards healing and integration. Following these experiences and the ensuing hospitalization and unfortunate misdiagonosis of schizophrenia, I suffered ptsd, intrusive thoughts, you name it. I dealt with it in secrecy and thought supression for literally years, and am open to it now. Im still averse to and afraid of either sacrilegious or demonic intrusive thoughts although I relate to them much better and make more space for them. I still have a ways to go though and I dont know what approach to dealing with them. HOpe to get good feedback. -Elliot

The mercy of the West has been social revoultion, the mercy of the East has been has been individual insight into the basic self/void. We need both -Gary Snyder

Thank you Steve, TWR and our interdependent intertwined sangha <3. This morning i felt myself compelled to weep at buddhist articles about inclusivity, songs about mental illness and rejection and so on. I didnt quite cry, as I havent in 3.5 years, but thats progress. Surrender and resignation can be wonderful and graceful, or disheartening and disillusioning or both. TDB has been a lot of help. PS lately I've been seeing the unity of direct mind methods and focused contemplation. I feel that I've been "cracking the koans" of a DDJ i ve read 10000 times, as well as song lyrics by various artists of various genres. With that I still need to tear down the walls built up over a lifetime of struggle to be able to merge the insight of the mind with the wisdom of the heart (or vice versa) to truly embody the Way. To paraphrase Hongzhi IF within illumination, serentiy is lost ----> nihilism. If within, serenity, illumination is lost ----> wastefulness/spiritual hedonism.

When the world Disappears under your feet Are you falling or Flying? The crow will Say one Thing. The fox another. And, Both are right -Gary Lemons

I empathize with you as I did this too against my conscience for 19.5 years. However I feel like we ought not to willfully ignore our intuitive sense of right and wrong. That’s how bad things take root in ourselves and thus the world. With that said true progress is almost always gradual and evolutionary rather than sudden and irreversible. Thanks for your honest answer

I am largely ignoring the vaccine thread as it seems that their is mutual resentment and toxicity there or at least I assume so as I haven’t read most of it. But it brings up an interesting point and analogous comparison. Embodying principles of tolerance and coexistence in an interdependent world where some actions or inactions can lead to life and death. I am staunchly pro vegetarian/vegan/ethically sourced meat and animal products. It actually broke me in college facing the horror that is factory farming and realizing almost no one around me cared or understood my guilt, grief and despair surrounding it. I have had to largely resign myself to this tragic fact of life and yield to everyone around me usually willingly enabling and supporting such practices. I instantly saw the futility of going an evangelical crusade about it. However, if you don’t speak up, how does one improve the situation? I think what is essential is to work with people where they are, without condemning them self-righteously and indignantly, even as there potentially wrong views lead to what we see as immoral consequences. This takes a level of awareness, conscientiousness, compassion and emotional maturity. I have the firm agenda that factory farming is terribly unethical, and that not being selective in either refraining from eating meat or buying exclusively ethically sourced products are the only two options to living a fully just life. However I would like to open up a cautious, gentle dialogue on it to see if I can gain perspective and skillful means in trying to leave my modest dent on the world, while possibly seeing if I can persuade others who might not see it as such a big deal. I hope this thread doesn’t go wrong, and I hope some find it helpful. 🙏🏼

I’m not trying to solicit hostility or intensity. If you disagree that’s fine, as is feedback, but no need to to make it more than that. I use qualifiers like “not wanting the thread to go wrong “ to attempt to properly convey my sincere intention. Much is often misinterpreted through text messages I find and im new to posting here. Other than that that is the best I can think of saying rn. to quote the I Ching “True joy is experienced by those who are strong within and gentle without”. Conscientiousness and gentleness go a long way 🙏🏼

I’m one to acknowledge and try to correct my mistakes but I don’t like to try to cover up or undo anything unless there is a super compelling reason like protecting someone’s feelings.

But I did read part of the thread which was toxic… which is why I was inclined to not read the rest. But if it means a lot to you I will! Just feel tense and conflicted now :/

My apologies nungali. I didn't mean to diss anyone or be self righteous. I read a few pages and it seemed tense.. I even saw someone accusing other posters of harassmenr. I wasnt trying to correct or condemn you guys, as much as I am trying to see how ppl can have difficult talks without them descending into hostility. Hopefully thus thread isn't ruined before it starts

Who needs self defense when we can defend with the non defense of love, and unity? In all seriousness you make a pretty good point. I know in my dreams "defending with compassion" nearly always works against ordinary, mortal foes. I haven't had the good fortune to get it to work on aggressive humans in waking life or malicious dream entities. Food for thought

To the credit of TDB , my zen center, and a shift of philosophy from passive waiting to resolute seeking, I feel increased emotionality (in a positive way) and connection over the past week.

Well I think there is no such thing as full healing until immortality or Buddha hood is reached I assume. I want to reclaim my Joy! And stop carrying around my burden of pain and disenchantment. Whilst still maintaining “the tender heart of sadness” 🙏🏼

So I have recently returned to Drek LIn's translation and i think I'm seeing that verse as weel as some others with new albeit not definitve eyes. I use to assume (i think falsely) that this verse as well as verse 55 claim that Sages are protected from harm to the point where they miraculously escape premature death , conflict, persecution. While there are certainly miraculous cases of this , there are clear cut cases of Sages meeting with untimely death, oppression, persecution. I interpret the "3 in 10" lines as such: 3 in ten are moving towards birth/rebirth, three in ten are inching towards death, and three in ten are caught in the in between juncture of living, bound to change as we all are. another way of looking at it, some attached to lifes leasures and excesses, some attached to the promise of salvation at physical death, and some merely going through the motions. Im interpreting the 1 in 10 as someone who is either on the road to or has accomplished "the great matter", transcending birth and death and all duality altogether. Now this person in ordinary life doesnt actually necesarruky avoid danger (although cautious and not seeking danger) in the form of rhinos and tigers. In times of inescapable conflict, danger, "war" he isnt defeated or harmed at the level of spirit and essence because he has severed entanglements and attachments. Because they dont have a false self, and because their true self is indestructible and eternal they have "no place for death" Now clearly this verse can function on many levels and have multiple nuanced meanings both obvious and hidden. But I wanted to rejoice and share my interpretation cause this verse use to cause internal doubt as well as risky tests of faith (for better or worse).