waterdrop

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The powerful light that has been banished returns.  There is movement, but it is not brought about by force

 this part ?             -  maybe wuji stance and danitan gong can be seen as force otoo though ?  not just stretching ?

 

@Michael Sternbach        Ok so  , cleaning it all out  - looking at last question :       "
 

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  "what change(s) i need to do in my practice for my spine ?"

I got hexagram 24  -  where first line is a changing yang line      ->   and it changes to hexagram 2 (All yin)     (and hiddent hexagram is 2 also)  

http://www.pantherwebworks.com/i_ching/bk1h21-30.html#24

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And I emphasized the stretching part because that's the really tricky one, in my understanding of the Yijing's response

Where do you see the stretching part in that hexagram   ?       (was really illuminating to see before you that you wrote the yijing was (probably) referring to my attitude  - and me missing the Yijing saying oracle  - would be funny if now i missed the word "stretching"  somehow lol) 

@Michael Sternbach    

im a bit confused as to what you reply too in your latest post

You talk about all the questions i wrote   ?  or just the two last ones ?    - cause in the two last ones i asked about my whole system i take (wuji+stretches+dantian gong+meditation)  and not just stretching  
 

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Interestingly, the second hexagram serves to underline all that.

What second hexagram ?    are you talking about hexagram  24 ?  or 2 ?    or something else ? 

***  so trying to figure out what you mean is   :  is that it seems that the yi jing is saying not to stop my previous practice  ( at the moment im doing nothing for some days now - trying to figure out what to return to)   and return to it   - and not try the new one (just meditation)   ?   

(it makes sense - dont read criticism in my posts they are 100% genuine questions) 

have any thoughts about this clash ?         
 

shame , but thanks for the reply

Did something change that you cant hide posts any more    -  and also cant hide other users posts  ?   or its still an option and  i just forgot where it is and cant find it  ?

Well , i ask another question about this same subject :   "what change(s) i need to do in my practice for my spine ?"

I got hexagram 24  -  where first line is a changing yang line      ->   and it changes to hexagram 2 (All yin)     (and hiddent hexagram is 2 also)  

But again not sure how to interpret this  -  should i get back to my old practice continue the exact same way i did before ?   or without some of the physical parts of it  ?  stop everything and not do anything  ?  start doing only meditation alone (including a new type of meditation i didnt do before)  ?
 
some thoughts i have on this is that by 24 and first line it seems i should return to exactly what i did before  -  and maybe hex 2 seems to mean the same

on the other hand when I asked the yi jing :

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  " what was the influence of what i practiced in my system on my back health "

I got hexagram   28      --- with  six (changing yang)  in the third       ----       that changed in to  47         .... and hidden hexagram is  1 

 i asked somewhere else for advice on this  - and someone said its a clear sign what i did did me bad for my back  

*  so it seems this 2 divinations  clash  

 

On 11/23/2020 at 9:36 PM, Michael Sternbach said:

Oh, and let me know if you wish me to have a go at interpreting the original answer you received

 
Yes that would be awesome    -  though if i had to choose i would rather get a reply about this another later divnation i did which is :

I asked the yi jing :  " what was the influence of what i practiced in X system on my back health "

I got hexagram   28      --- with  six (changing yang)  in the third       ----       that changed in to  47         .... and hidden hexagram is  1 

Background : I got major back pain since i started doing an online course  ( the course is great and i recommend it , and im still planing on doing parts of it (the non physical)  -  it seems i got something wrong in the physical aspect of it)    so i stopped doing most of it   -  and i plan to start doing part of the course about balncing the elements in body thorugh meditation  and working with the energy channels  which is non physical    ,  but still wonder if that is right and i should just get back into doing the regular online course   and not just the channels and elements part  

From the results i got by some parts i can interpret if i continue

The stretching i asked about before (when i got 64 )  are part of the online course   (from what i call "physical part")   ...  also it has  dantian gong part  ...  also Wuji stance ... and also dantian gong part       ....   all three i suspect might have caused my back pain

---- i also asked recently about " what was the influence of the wuji stance i did on my back health ? and what i should do about it "

and got also  64  but with nine in the second and fourth places  ,  and six in the third   (  result was hexagram 52  with the hidden one being  63)

***  i write all but if there is one i would like a reply is hexgram 28 cause it seems the most accurate  - cause its the first time i ever get a result talking about the " The ridgepole sags to the breaking point"  when im asking about my painful back 

**  i read the results after in a physical Wilhelm’s translation book - but if i look after again i look at this online site (if someone wants its pretty neat)    :  http://www.pantherwebworks.com/i_ching/index.html#key

That is interesting .           maybe you can say a word about how exactly you interpert it as such ?   cause i would love to be able to discern that myself in future    
 

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hexagram  61        with sixth (changing yin)    in the third  and nine (changing yang)  in the fifth and also the six line        ...........   so hexagram change to 11     ...............   and hidden hexagram is 27 

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The Yijing commented on your attitude towards the issue rather than on the issue itself. 

What in the results  makes you think that way ?   


 

How to interpert Yi Jing results ?        intersting to hear any advice about this topic 

For example :

Do you ignore parts   ?  (for example i read about ignoring the hidden hexagram  ,   or even ignoring both hidden and resultant hexgram  , or ignoring all except the changing line ) 

What does the hidden hexagram  point to ?  
what does the resultant hexagram point to ?
what does the first hexagram point to ?  
what changing lines point to ?

What weight do you give each part  ?            (are the lines more important - the resultant or hidden or original hexagram more important ? )

If there are more than one changing lines which ones you listen to ? all of them ?   what if they are clashing in some way  ?



 

2 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

The Yijing typically reacts this way when we become too cheeky with it.

what way exactly you mean ? 

I have sent a couple of pictures of myself from different angles doing wuji and got corrections which i adjusted my posture accordingly  (and its clear of course it needs a very long time to perfect and for sure i still got lots to fix  - but since the pain i got are soo strong (as in i randomly freeze during the day without being able to move cause of back pain)   i am not sure i have time to keep practicing and correcting - as i did before ) and did a lot of other stuff as well including medical professionals   - and i am going to keep asking about this issue there  (not just stretching or wuji  -  might even be somehow from dantian gong)  but again i dont want to discuss my strong back pains here      , i want to discuss the yi jing results i got and interpret them         ..........   so i really want to not get replies on how to solve my back pain issue and what is smart to do  but to get replies about the yi jing results i got and how people interpret the results

Thanks for the ideas ,  i have asked question relating to this in that fourm already ,  including about my posture and stretches ,      and damo is in a retreat at the moment and dosnt answer posts , i may ask the group when he is back to replying so chances he sees reply are better , but anyway without connection to that i do want to get the "yi jing"  point of view about this matter   -   so it is a good opportunity to add im just asking here only on the matter from the  yijing aspect  and not general advice on the subject itself   -  that is why i ask this in yijing section and on the divnation results  and not about the subject itself which will just derail this thread to something i am not interested to discuss here




 

I asked the yi jing :  " what was the influence of what i practiced in this system on my back health "

I got hexagram   28      --- with  six (changing yang)  in the third       ----       that changed in to  47         .... and hidden hexagram is  1 

Background : I got major back pain since i started doing  this system in an online course ( the course is great and i recommend it , and im still planing on doing parts of it (the non physical)  -  it seems i got something wrong in the physical aspect of it)    so i stopped doing most of it   -  and i plan to start doing part of the course   which is non physical    ,  but still wonder if that is right and i should just get back into doing the regular online  course   and not just the heavenly streams part 

If anyone else reads something for example i dont understand is  - how i read a changing of hexagram  - if i only asked on past effect ?

and if its past up to present  - than it seems there was a positive change from my results  (if i got it right cause 11 seems positive- so i base my understanding on that)     but de facto in reality i had a change for the worst  so it seems the yijing result i got was not good

@steve   Thanks  - damo mitchell is great about anyrthing daoist related , including yijing  and in fact i read somwhere he is already working on a book about the yijing   ,  but i dont want to bother him or damos group too much about the yijing which is not the main thing of that group 

Taomeow is great yes -  dont want to bother her with a PM  - but i did tag her  and another reply from her would be great .

about asking  - i dont ask the yijing in english but in my language and im not sure how to really translate "devine"  to it  , and also wanted the question to feel genuine to me so it can stick to my head better (which i understand is important as well)     but what i asked seems to me to be very close to what she suggested   -   but anyway that is why i wrote it here so taomeow will see  and if she thinks its a big difference than i will no doubt phrase it exactly like she wrote

Again that derails this thread which is about yi jing  - but just to not ignore your comment  -  i have been to pyshos and orthpedics but this isnt just about stretching  - and not what im asking about or want this thread to be about  - so please dont talk about it - it derails this thread and its very important for me this thread stays about the  YI JING  how to inteprt it and how to interpert the yi jing reply i got

i need to understand this for many aspects of my life  - not just stretching  but other issues physical but also about career , spiritual practice , relationship with people etc  ....   i asked about stretching in other places online  and about physical health in general  - i want this thread to be about YI jing  in general and also the results i got (61 11 27) and how to intepert this    -  so i dont want to get  stretching or health advice here  - just yi jing interpretations to help me understand the yi jing better

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You did some stretching - then stopped - now you feel stiff and achey?  What do you expect?

Not sure what you mean  - but in case i get your drift  and you mean i just tried once or twice and than got pain and stopped  : i didnt do stretching one time  .... i did in many different times during the years  ,  sometimes doing strong sometime  going really easy - like the last time where i did every time  a few second  every day  and didnt put any pressure at all almost  - very gentle  and still got pains and less flexible somehow   ,  and when im talking about pains i dont mean during the stretching but after the stretching  -  and i tried in  a few different ways to stretch   

BUT  i really dont want this to become a discussion about stretching , and peoples views about stretching  - but about what the "yi jing"  tells me about the effects of stretching on me   -   about what he said to me in the divination i did  and wrote above and in general about how i interpret the "yi jing results"      (i have many other questions - for example i got very strong back pain and i want to ask about a few different trainings i do not just stretching  - so really its a thread about yi jing and not really about stretching and focusing on it will just derail this thread) 

What im saying is  - how i should read the changing hexgram if im asking about the past up to now ?   -   and if it means in the past things were hexagram 61  and than they changed to 11  than it seems like a very postive change  - but reality is the opposite of that 

@Apech     -   thanks for the replies   ,     about your first post about my first one  -  seems by what taomeow wrote that my question was not good  -  and i seem to buy into what she wrote  ,  you dont agree with that and say its still relevant ?   

about the second divination   :

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hexagram  61        with sixth (changing yin)    in the third  and nine (changing yang)  in the fifth and also the six line        ...........   so hexagram change to 11     ...............   and hidden hexagram is 27

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  It suggests you are bit more relaxed - that you should avoid bouncing or over forcing and the best aspect is tissue connectivity. ... I think

  -    i asked about it as sort of a test for the "Yi jing"   to be honest  and asked here also as a test (but mainly to understand ! just a tiny tiny bit a test)  for people here to see ........   cause truth is  im almost certain the stretching i did  harmed my health (that is why i stopped)    i have become less flexible and got pains

so i really hoped the "yi jing" would say something that it did me bad  (maybe in its way saying something about "danger"  etc)          -    now im not sure how should i read a yi jing result ?     i mean it changes to 11  which is a postive thing it seems   -  but i didnt ask about the future   - i didnt ask what i asked in the start about if i should return to it  -  cause if i would than i assume 11 would have been a clear answer  ... but i only asked about the condition up to now   -   so how i should read the change ?

also i got nine in the top which seems negative thing : 

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Nine at the top means:

Cockcrow penetrating to heaven.
Perseverance brings misfortune.

The cock is dependable. It crows at dawn. But it cannot itself fly to heaven. It just crows. A man may count on mere words to awaken faith. This may succeed now and then, but if persisted in, it will have bad consequences.

 

 

so again dont know how to read it 

Ok i had quiet - so i used it to do a divination , im still interested to know what i asked above including if this is a legitmate question - but i had to take this quiet opportunity even if it wasn't a good question  - so i asked  "what is the impact of the stretches i did up to know on my health ? " 

I got :    hexagram  61        with sixth (changing yin)    in the third  and nine (changing yang)  in the fifth and also the six line        ...........   so hexagram change to 11     ...............   and hidden hexagram is 27 

Still not sure how to interpret this - and would appreciate your thoughts

@Taomeow  oh wow , thanks !  , i  made a question based on my understanding of damo mitchells guidance in his book  "white moon on the mountain peak"     and he says there clearly not to ask a yes or no question  -  and for some reason i thought my question was not one  - but now i see it clearly is a yes no question 
 
-  he gives example of two section questions   -  the example he gave is  "What is the state of my role as the head of an internal arts organization ?  am i fulfilling the role to the best of my ability ?" 

is there an option to ask a two section question about stretches ?    cause from what i understand from your reply  this are clear 3 different questions that shouldnt be combined in one divination  ? 

- also can i phrase the first one - instead of what you wrote  in 1 ask  :  "what is the impact on my health of the stretches I did up until now ? "     -  is that an ok question ?

I asked : "did the stretches i did up until now did me good ? should i get back to doing stretches ? how ? "   

(that was the phrasing what i had in mind when asking is :       "  did the stretches i did up to now in life have done my health good (or bad) ?       should i get back to doing stretches (i stopped doing it for some days)  ?   how should i do them (aka any advice on how to conduct them yijing)  ?  ) 

I got  :  hexagram  64        with sixth (changing yin)    in the first   and nine (changing yang)  in the fourth       ...........   so hexagram change to 41    

and the secret hexagram is  63

can you help me interpert this  , i am not sure i get what it says at the end -    for example :  did stretching up to now in my life did good to my health or not ?        and should i return to doing stretching ?

@Taomeow            from your band example  - it seems like a con , a bad side  , of using the i ching .........   *If i understood what you wrote correctly*    ..........    cause you just wanted to know something about a band  ,  and instead you felt really worried for  some time   about something  and vigiliant about something you not only   dont know enough about  - but have no good  influence on  ?    i mean even if you would have guessed somehow its about the band  , what you could have done about it ? 

i can see how im wrong about what i wrote  - but i wonder what you think ?           cause it seems by reading your comments here that  the "i ching"  can easily cause more harm than benefit ?

I dont know how much the TCM practitioner  who wrote the quote below about coffee   wants to publish this outside of facebook with his name connected to it     -  so i just put quote of his here  ...  and would mention he said he   still drinks coffee himself   -  so that should be taken into account as well :