marcus2013

Hey Tao Bums, How are you doing ? I have a question for you about one thing that's happening to me lately : I am lying on bed (I haven't done chi kung or anything special before lying) I focus on my abductors for a few seconds, then visualize them melting. Disolving. Like a pleasant dissolution. I can feel my mind trying to disolve and the body resisting. But when my abductors surrender, then ... BAM! I instantly feel a stream of "energy" that goes up my spine and it makes my spine very straight. The whole "procedure" doesn't take more than a few seconds. I don't feel anything else besides that. Not more physical energy, clear mind or anything. It's just fun and the sensation of having the spine straightened is pleasant, but I am wondering what is this ??? Does someone have an idea ? Or it's just my imagination ? But I can really feel how my spine gets straight and my chest gets pulled out. It's like uncontrolable. I am not an expert on MCO but whenever I do it I try to put my tongue to the palate just in case it helps bringing the "energy?" down again. All the best, Marcus

Yes it is a very good and powerful technique. I've tried a slight variation many times and it has given me a few things : 1.- Much improved general circulation of blood and oxygenation on the following days. 2.- Increased awareness and much less brain fog. 3.- Clear insights that your ego won't let you see, or subconscious patterns. This is the big point. But please don't expect magical results... I've given up on that. Development/problem solving/health is like peeling layers of an onion. That breathwork will surely help but won't be aanything definitive. Also, let me say, that in my experience there are many factors involving the results of the work. First, of course, yourself. But also the facilitators, the group with whom you breathe, the intention of the group, the place, etc... The only drawback I can see is that you might need some knowledge or help to integrate the experience. But it is not common since with this kind of breathwork you can stop your "trip" whenever you want, so you won't go that far that your psique can't handle it. Not like LSD or things like that.

Thanks!

Hi there Tao Bums! I would like to start doing some kind of daily inner practice. Wether it's meditation, qigong or anything that I can do on my own. However, I've been reading the forums and found so many different opinions and warnings about doing qigong on your own. When I wanted to start learning and practicing the Small Orbit (as it's taught in the Spring Forest) then I find some people saying that even doing the small orbit can harm you if done improperly. Others say that basic meditation if done improperly can repress your feelings/emotions instead of letting them flow. All in all, a real mess for a newbie. So, then, is there any practice you could recommend me that it's 100% safe ? Thanks!

Hi Tao Bums, Just as some tao bum suggested me, I've started a "program" of 15 minutes daily of sitting meditation. Just sitting there and trying to focus on the space between thoughts. Some days is very difficult : The 15 minutes pass like a second, and my mind hasn't stopped any single milisecond. Other days I can focus some seconds on that space, it feels good and generates insights. Although it's all very subtle and I of course I am in the very beginning. I started adding 15 minutes of "free movement" after the sitting meditation. That is, I stay still and wait for my body to tell me how he wants to move. That is normally movements with the pelvis, hands, neck, hips, normally in circles. Also, some violent gestures, some caring gestures, some sexual gestures, some gentle dancing gestures, moving the body in waves or circles, joy movements, etc. However, yesterday I got very scared : I started to use my hands as claws, I was something between a wild animal and a crazy paleolithic raw carnivore, I was gesturing like tearing apart some flesh and furiosly biting at it. I was very scared but said to myself : Just don't judge this, just observe and let it happen whatever it is. It continued. It was very primal, very violent. After a while it ceased and much more gentle gestures came. I am still a bit shocked that this was inside myself. Is this the "shadow" ? Or what is this ? Is it ok to keep on doing like that or will I awake dark forces inside myself ? What does that mean ? Please advice! My best wishes to all the tao bums.

OldChi, I am more inclined to think like you rather than daoraintao. However I think that after all, what he wants to point is just a "Warning" to not fall into the continuous interpretation of movements in search for a psychological meaning. Anyway, do you think what I am doing is ok ? Even if very dark side movements arise ?

Hey, thank you, now I understand what you meant with your first post. Regarding your question, you don't know what I mean ? I mean the charasteristic split in consciousness in western civilization. The dissociation from your body. Living entirely neck-upwards. You know what I mean. And regarding meditation, it's because I readed in one of Michael Greenwood articles, he says : Source : http://www.paradoxpublishing.com/assets/files/publications/articles/aama/vol-11-2-splits.pdf

Hi there! Thanks for your answer. I am not sure I understand what you mean with "delusional states of mind" and why looking for meanings and concepts is bad. Why can it be bad to let the body move itself as it feels ? Anyway, I've read somewhere else that the physical part should be after the sitting meditation, not before, to avoid mind/body split. Why do you say it's better before ? Cheers.

Exactly same situation, same thinking about people in other historical times. Same willing to quit job and travel, and same acompanying worries. I would like to point two things : 1.- Traveling we won't find what we are missing on the other side of the world, because it is inside us. HOWEVER, it will probably be fun, exciting, plenty of experiences and people to learn from, open dozens of possibilities, and most importantly : We want to do it. 2.- I think it's worthless to worry about other people or other historical times. What really counts is what you want in 2013. It's so difficult to accept this! How are you going to be yourself (the ultimate destination of the path) if you rely on other people or other times situations ? This is extremely difficult, be responsible of your needs and actions and take the responsability that comes with them. We are probably telling ourselves "If I do that change/travel/whatever and I fail, I'll be an stupid for having done that and will have a miserable life." That said, I still don't understand why don't we close now this fucking computer and do it!!!!! I can see it rationally but can't act upon it. Neurosis, I guess. Weak organs (in TCM terms). Bad Karma. Possessions. Fear. Who knows. My best wishes to you anyway.

Don't chinese medicine talk about fear being stucked in the kidneys ? Maybe is it fear of going to Mexico that has taken over your lower back because you realized if you get the job, you'll get the money and then no excuses to go there ? I don't know. Just a thought. By the way, I totally understand you and share your worry. I am also struggling with this dilema (I have bolded it above).

How do you know what is resist or what is following through ? Sage men from all cultures and times had said : "It's not the outter things that affect you, it's how you process them." So, in the case of this guy, what means resist ? Resist the temptation to go to Mexico ? Resist the pain and take the job ? Resist his real willing of going to mexico ? I hope you get what I mean it's not a simple arguement.

Well, VERY good article. Thanks so much! When he mentions the "Abdominal lift" exercise I don't really understand this sentence : "Stand with your upper body supported on your knees." Can anybody please explain me what's that ? Sorry I don't understand it (I'm not a native english speaker). Your upper body supported on your knees ? Standing ? Isn't this the normal way to stand up ? Or does it mean your knees on the ground and standing from there ?

Awesome!!! Thanks!!

R V do you know anything for sitting at the computer ? Thanks

I see... Then I understand the "devastating" you are talking about and the shirt metaphore. I can see there's probably not much time for good dietary habits either. You probably know this but, please be careful specially with the food. With that lifestyle you can deplete your nutrient levels quite quickly and it's not easy to refill them (it's not as easy as taking supplements).

Hi Rara, What are you going to do then ? Change job for one that doesn't involve being in an office ? Nevertheless, there are lots of other devastating factors in jobs that aren't done in offices. Summarizing pros/cons an office shouldn't be that bad. Right ?

Dear Tao Bums, I am asking you for some sincere advice. I have been diagnosed by a TCM Dr. with Stagnant Qi Liver and Spleen Qi deficiency (attacked by the liver). After reading about those two syndromes, all the bad things that are happening in my life finally make sense. My constant sense of frustration, irritability, inability to experience joy, the sense of being stuck in life, my tremendous lack of energy and direction on what to do to change those frustrating things, etc. This is, I think, at least partly realted to a job I am stucked in, an extremely boring (I feel like in the Groundhoug day) but which I cannot change because I lack the energy, courage and direction to do so. My TCM Dr. via a pulse diagnosis said it's normal because my "mind" wants to move forward, but my "body" (in reality there's not such distinction) is sending the message : "you have so low energy, don't even move! save it for vital functioning!" so that's why I am always neurotic (divided) on leaving this job that I don't like or staying because it consumes very low energy. Plus, this job is sitting in front of a computer for many hours, also fatal to the liver I've read. However, it's decently paid and it would allow me to do/study other things, it's about 6h day job. Why can't I just do the 6 hours and enjoy the rest of the day ? Impossible to me. But I don't know if all this mess is caused by the stagnant qi liver, or this frustration with the job caused the stagnation. Or maybe I have deep psychological traumas or something that are causing all this mess. If I go to the normal doctor, he wants to prescribe me antidepressants. If I go to the psychologist, she wants me to either change job or enjoy it. However, this seems impossible to me because I lack the energy to change or cannot control my emotions no matter how hard I say it to myself that I should stay calm and be grateful for having a job. I feel like in a vicious circle from which I don't know how to escape or what to do. Maybe leaving the safety of this job is even worst. One thing that is *really helping* are coffee enemas but I don't want to be hooked to this procedure (I feel like I have to connect to a dyalisis machine every day) plus I am not sure it's healthy in the long term. Another thing that has helped me is practicing shaolin kung fu, however, it's quite aggressive in it's nature and quite aggressive for the knees also. What do you think ? What could you recommend me ? Of course I'll discuss this with my Dr. but I would like to know more opinions. Please help. Thanks in advance.

Hi somatech, thank you very much for your time and your advice. Might I ask what was that issue ? I know it's very personal. Please don't answer if you don't feel like it. Or send me a private message. But I guess it will help me a lot. How have you done that pain/emotional stuff processing? Did you go to a psychotherapist ? And if so, which kind ? Could you please tell me a bit more about those pain/emotions and the fear? In a PM if you wish. Every bit of information will help me I hope. What are you doing right now to address the deeper core stuff ? And what is it about ? Is it things from your childhood ? Trauma with your parents ? Past sentimental relationships ? Sorry for asking so many questions. I feel lost. Well to be honest since I started the herbs, diet and acupuncture I'm feeling more balanced emotional and psychological. I am far from being ok but I can see a start. 3 weeks now. Thanks. My best wishes.

I also found this very interesting article discussing the psychological/existential relations with qi stagnation : http://www.paradoxpublishing.com/assets/files/publications/articles/aama/vol-13-1-compartmentalization.pdf Daojones you might find it useful. And this one, very useful for understanding the relationship between antidepressive drugs, TCM, and qi stagnation : http://www.paradoxpublishing.com/assets/files/publications/articles/aama/vol-21-1-drugs-and-acupuncture.pdf Cheers.

I just found these two paragraphs in a book by Jost Sauer (www.jostsauer.com). All the book is very inspiring and resonates of what's happening to me (although I never abused any hard-drug, only tobacco and marijuana during some years.). Well if Prozac is a drug in the sense Jost is talking, then yes.

I am glad you are feeling better. Let's see how this goes. I have now plenty of information about the issue. I am very grateful of having had such different point of views. I'll keep you posted on this. My best wishes to all the Tao Bums that are helping. Yes your intuition is right again. I also feel in a heavy transition point although the transition is blocked now. It all started after quitting my prozac medication that was masking the real problem for years I guess. Plus some breathwork and work with shamanic substances I think accelerated the process a lot. I'm in an existential crysis. What's my purpose in life ? What am I doing in this job ? Apart from the job, is this the career I want (I.T.) ? What is love ? Does god exist ? Does something bigger than us exist ? ETC. I realized this life of politics, people stressed with their jobs, consumerism, going to discos and drinking to have fun, politics, scientificism, etc. was like living in MATRIX. It was a painful process, I was feeling like getting out of matrix. Sometimes I was very connected to nature and god (or tao or universe or whatever you want to call it) and someother times I was suffering like if I was in the Dark night of the soul. I had to drop some friends, a girlfriend, habits, etc. (the environment daojones is talking about I guess) I even told my boss I was quitting my job, with really no other plans than to just ... see what will happen. Soon after I regreted the decision and cancelled the job quitting, staying there until now. I guess fear of leavin the comfort zone. Or autoprotecting, god knows! What happened then ? I started doing the martial arts and taking some vitamins, that improved my condition. Those are the bandaids I guess daojones talks about. Anyway, they helped to rebuild my health. So now what happens ? I am in a middle point, where my old life isn't satisfactory to me, but I don't know where to move. That's why I'm stucked, and probably with the stagnant qi liver hitting very bad. Sometimes I want my old life back, it reminds me of the Pulp song "I wanna be like common people"... but old is old, and for good or for bad I've changed. This all makes sense of what daojones is saying. As I said in the original post, my TCM Dr. said it's normal that I am stucked/splitted because I want to make a change, but it's normal that my body is telling me to not do that because I am very weak (liver `+ spleen) and once we fix that, I could make the changes. We'll see how this goes with the TCM Dr. He also is of the opinion that I have to make a vital change. I'll keep you posted. Thanks everyone!!!

All right! Thanks buddy.

Well, I'll keep it in mind and ask my Dr. about it! Thanks! 50% of myself thinks like you. 50% of myself thinks like daojones. I'm totally divided though That's also why I can't seem to move because there's two equal forces going on opposite directions. Harmonious, Thanks for your answer. I think you are right on what you say. Emotions exist for a reason and trying to completely supress them feels very unbalanced and unnatural. However, being anger every work day I consider it very unbalanced (that's my case). I readed a few times your post, I am a total newbie to Chinese philosophy/medicine/spirituality so it sounds kind of strange about the water/fire/organs/etc. plus my brain fog is fucking me but I think I get your point. If I am getting you correctly, that's why using a techinique like EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) could be counterproductive since you'll be erasing any kind of uneasy emotion that in reality might be there to help you cope with a problem in the right way. Is this what you are saying ? Anyway, related to my case, I would like to hear your opinion. What's the role of your theory in my case ? Thanks. Long life to you.

Does this simple method is beneficial ? For how long ? "Back to meditation" what means ? I don't really understand what I have to focus into. Between my thoughts there's supposed to be an empty fraction of time ? And, 15 minutes a day it's ok ? I'm about to start my 40 days routine. THanks!!!

Well, first of all, thank you very much for your time and answers man. Yes, he's doing acupuncture once per week. He said minimum between 6 months to 1 year. Well, I cutted my alcohol drinking very drastically (it wasn't excessive before either) some months ago, although I still have that "only one beer" for social reasons. Maybe two glasses of wine a week on friday or saturday night. Geez! Do you really think a glass of wine a week can really fuck up my liver or stop progress ? All you say about cola/colds/sugar/etc. makes a lot of sense and it's part of the written instructions my TCM doctor gave me. I've cutted them, but ... MAN! Do you really think a piece of pie on saturdays or sundays can really fuck it all ? No spicy (I don't like it anyway). And no deep fried products. If TCM can't fix a liver to the point that it can stand some sugar and some wine once a week, then... well, I don't know. I don't think chinese are so very much strict on anything. And lots of people drink alcohol and eat sugar and smoke and only have health problems when they reach 70. You are right I woud like to heal my organs first and then decide what to do with the job, but, if tou read daojones post just above yours, I think he goes straight to the point when he says about the environment and existential crises. I think the job might be affecting very much my liver not because of the screen but because there's absolutely nothing new to learn there, nothing to learn from my coworkers (I see them as zombies) plus I sit in front of the computer doing nothing (there's not much work to do) so it makes me feel I'm not worth the salary I get. That said, my goal if possible is to first heal the organs and then decide. We'll see if that happens. Supposedly the coffee goes straight to the liver. You don't absorv much caffeine on the general bloodstream. My goal is to not having to make any at all BUT as the things are right now, they're saving me. If I don't do them 2/3 times per week I feel like I want to run someone over with my car. Of course I'll never do it, I'm not a psychopath but you understand what I mean. I get extremely frustrated and my body becomes rigid like stone. This is the path I am following right now. Have you find any permanent solution then ? This really makes sense of what's happening to me. How have you been doing then ? I mean, applying the advice you have suggested me, has it fixed your exitential / emotional problems ? I've seen you in another thread saying you have very tigh lower abdomen. Probably repressed emotions. So do I have a very tigh abdomen. What you are saying also really makes a lot of sense to me. I've been having this intuitions for a long time but lacking the courage/energy to do so. The more time passes, I still have the same intuitions but less energy and less courage. That's why I feel I'm stucked in. I feel like crap! I hope the accu/herbs treatment can get me going so I can make the decisions. I don't really now what I want but I know being in that job with that zombie people is not who I am or what I want. Man after reading your last paragrpah I almost cried and shouted in emotion (good emotion). Let me please ask you one thing : Once you got your qi flowing, what happened with those emotions that are supposedly repressed when you have stagnant qi liver ? Thank you very much for your advice. My very best regards to all tao bums that are giving me their time and advice. Well I don't know why it replies to daojones and Narew in the same post!!! So be it.