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While it is true that not everybody has the obligation to know what neidan is, mainly because it is, perhaps, the less spread of the spiritual systems, the misinformation that qigong and neidan are the same has to be stopped. We know that qigong is a modern umbrella term for several traditional practices more or less adapted (and sometimes diluted). Practices like yangsheng (not to be confused with yangshen), daoyin, neigong (either martial or medical), etc. were fused in one model: qigong. But neidan was not part of this process, although some neidan methods can be found from time to time in qigong systems. Besides, there is the difference in method and energy used (already explained by Antares).

Ok sorry! What it is saying, in general, was pertaining to Neidan. It was written in classic format. The esoteric Taoist interpretation is: Since there are 精氣神(Jing chi shen) inside your body to make elixir already, then, why should one be wasting time to hunt for it externally. 長生藥: Immortal herbs were implicating 精氣神(Jing chi shen). It is because they are the main ingredients or three treasures for Neidan.

By a duck pond . I am glad you thought my post was funny up there . I also posted it on my history forum amidst all sorts of serious joyful traditional corny Christmas music that people were posting and it got two likes ! as if some didnt see any discrepancy in what I wrote and the 'music ' anyway here is another 'Viking ' favorite ( an oldie but a goodie ) Viking birthday song .... sing it to your friends on their special day

Destiny is ming. In neidan this means yuanqi and yuanjing. Xing is yuanshen. As Zhang boduan says ... everyone has it but squanders it. Golden elixir is merged xing and ming.

Haha! Are you trying to tell me something? PS I rather be a fool with my own wisdom. I will not try to make people smart again.

juice, lips, tongue, sweet now and not a kiss to be had anywhere--but then anywhere--but then everywhere--come, get your share when we all shine on

The snow frames the window panes , the scent of the real Christmas tree wafts through the house . The fire burns brightly in the grate while Granddad naps in the chair after too much pudding and brandy sauce . Mum and Gran are cleaning up after the Christmas lunch, the kids play happily on the floor with their new toys and dad puts on some Christmas music ;

We hear and see examples of people extending unconditional forgiveness for harm done to them but sometimes without there also being the very important step of some type of repentance by the one that did them harm! Anyway I copied the excerpt below as an example about that from a much longer text...(with Bible related sayings although I think not limited to Abrahamic religions) "But wait! I missed a step. Something VERY important has to happen first. Something that EVERYONE forgets when they talk about MERCY and forgiveness. Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and IF HE REPENT, forgive him. Did he say to forgive your brother for his sins against you? NO! He said REBUKE HIM! Judge him for his sins against you, and TELL HIM HE WAS WRONG! And IF HE REPENTS, IF HE REPENTS THEN, and ONLY THEN, FORGIVE HIM! That’s what He said. IF HE REPENT is in that scripture. And it’s there for a reason. “forgiving” a brother without him first repenting to you, is tantamount to “forgiving” a shark for biting your arm off, as it swims around for a bigger piece. (not a very good example imo since a shark is not human and biting is in its nature) But hold on, you say – Christ said to forgive a brother SEVENTY TIMES SEVEN – and should we do no less? You’re absolutely right! We should do EXACTLY what Christ said and FORGIVE THEM EACH TIME! But wait… in the very next verse here it says… Verse 4: And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. For EACH AND EVERY ONE of those SEVEN TIMES in that day that he sinned against you, he has to turn to you and say “I REPENT!“ or, in our language ”I am sorry! I was wrong!” and THEN – ONLY then, mind you – are you to forgive him! " Then again there is also the aspect or act of not burning oneself up with bitterness if repentance was never given, and thus not easy to deal with also "seventy times seven" !

@ChiDragon no need to.

... ask him for help. So, ive recently befriended this 40 yo. fellow. He lost his long term wife and love of his life to cancer a few years ago, and is currently unemployed. No children. Naturally, there are still pictures and other reminders of his late wife in his home. First time I visited, I didnt ask any questions, as I felt it would be wrong. But yeah, it does sort of become the elephant in the room, in a way. Next time however, he opened up. It was very refreshing, and the honesty of it as well was... IS pretty much always healing for all parties, I feel. There are few if any human qualities I value higher. Today he told me that the reason for him to open up, was that he knew that the darkness he once felt, and that others may feel now, is temporary, and he wanted to provide support for people who are currently lost in darkness. It was healing for him. He then told me about this radio program he was listening to. In the program, it talked about how many of the traitss that once made men so valueable; strength, sense of honour, sacrifise, bravery etc. are no longer needed in the same way. There are no more mamouts to hunt. There are no bears that threaten the tribe and needs to be taken care of any longer. As a result, loads may feel useless, and get in a deep hole. The radio show said that if you want to help one of these seemingly lost men, ask them to help you. Idk... but ressonated as true in my eyes and thought it was worth sharing. I certainly have somewhat of a need to.. protect, in lack of a better word. And from experience I can confirm that serving something larger than myself as well as my fellow man, has done a lot of good. Hope you are doing well, people.

where is this place, please...

Nah man i genuinely wondered what it said! Google and Bing were giving me some subtle yet significant differences, and my own scrutinization was turning up even deeper.

Did you learn this in Tao school? Which one was that? I want to go there too.

Life is simple, it’s just not easy.

性: xing; cultivation of the mind 命; ming; cultivation of the body. It was known as 性命雙俢; the cultivation of xing and ming.

Do you mean "where is this place" or "why am I not in this picture?"

@Cobie You did not put the 自 in your thought. It seems to be it was a humorous sciatic remark meant for me. It was hinting that I was wasting my time in explaining what Neidan is to everybody.

Everyone possesses the elixir of immortality, yet foolishly squanders it. (Zhang Boduan, Song Dynasty). But he wrote in Classical, so each will read in it what they expect to find.

Thank you for this little bit of information leading us to the right direction! Every little bit helps to find its way to the truth.

Totally right. I posted about it too, a while ago now and can’t find it back. Was sth like forgiveness is only applicable after the perpetrator: 1) understands it was wrong 2) is sorry 3) has now acquired the skills not do it again 4) has now the mindset to never want to do it again 5) apologises sincerely 6) humbly and sincerely begs for my forgiveness All else is aiding and abetting

A friend phoned a few days ago, sounding hoarse and complaining about her throat. I asked her if she could visualize a rope around her neck. She could. "Who is holding the rope?" She could see her younger son. So: - Forgive yourself for being such a shit that he needed to hang you - Forgive him for having had to hang you A minute later her voice had become normal and she was feeling much better There were more family members involved but I shortened the account. The events occurred earlier on this timeline

when we all shine on bringing up that black gloss on someone else’s shoes.

I will try to follow your logic. However, it might be difficult for me. It is because the truth is the truth. What else could it be. Anyway, thank you for your truthful advice.🙏

Where am I!?

you didn't ask me but I'd say no, never do any kind of advanced practices without true guru guidance/insight, why, because the farther one climbs the farther the potential fall ! Thus a step by step process along with a rock solid foundation that is also continually practiced or made stronger. Btw many may claim to be true guru but true guru or Sat Guru is rare.

Hahaha I am not new here at all. I was banned about three times already by telling the truth. PS Ofc my truth may not be somebody else's truth.

You aren’t going to be banned for having a contrary opinion, but you might need support it robustly. 🙂 Since you are new here, take some time to evaluate for yourself our cast of characters before you decide who knows what is true. Hint: Teachers with real insight tend to be kind. _/\_

Love Cleary's translation at the bottom of your primer: Carrying vitality and consciousness, embracing them as one, can you keep them from parting? "Carrying vitality" implies a sense of weight--here's something from a piece I'm writing now, slightly edited: Moshe Feldenkrais observed that people sometimes hold their breath just to get up out of a chair, and he outlined a way to avoid that: …When the center of gravity has really moved forward over the feet a reflex movement will originate in the old nervous system and straighten the legs; this automatic movement will not be felt as an effort at all. (“Awareness Through Movement”, © 1972, 1977 Moshe Feldenkrais, p 78) Feldenkrais stipulated that: … there must be no muscular effort deriving from voluntary control, regardless of whether this effort is known and deliberate or concealed from the consciousness by habit. (ibid, p 76) “Reflex movement” can also be engaged to sit or stand, as the weight of the body combines with a singular location of consciousness. In Gautama’s teaching, a singularity in the location of consciousness follows “making self-surrender the object of thought”: … the (noble) disciple, making self-surrender the object of (their) thought, lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness. (SN 48.10, tr. Pali Text Society vol V p 174; “noble” substituted for Ariyan) In my experience: …“one-pointedness” occurs when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a singular location in the body, and a person “lays hold of one-pointedness” when they remain awake as the singular location shifts. (Just to Sit) As to "... embracing them as one, can you keep them from parting?": As Gautama said, there can also come a moment when: … seated, (one) suffuses (one’s) body with purity by the pureness of (one’s) mind so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded with purity by the pureness of (one’s) mind. (AN 5.28, tr. PTS vol. III pp 18-19, parentheticals paraphrase original) The “pureness of mind” that Gautama referred to is the pureness of the mind without any will or intention to act in the body. There is a feeling of freedom, when the body is suffused with “purity by the pureness of (one’s) mind” and the activity of inhalation and exhalation is “reflex movement” regardless of where consciousness takes place. The experience can be recalled in standing and in daily life through an overview of the body taken at the close of the seated experience, the "survey-sign" of the concentration. There are some details of anatomy and of fascial support for the vertebrae of the sacrum and spine that might interest you, here: A Natural Mindfulness (hardcopy through Amazon).

Okay! If you all have make up your mind of what you had injected. I'll quit from here before I get banned. Peace on TDB.

I see! What you are saying that I should not have initiated the OP to ask the question then!

Well, how do you describe the method of Neidan in your own words? Besides "oh boy". In your own understanding, what is Neidan? How do you practice? If one knew it so well, why not shed some light for us?

I have translated what Neidan is many times. Who pays attention to it? Neidan is a known method of Qigong defined by the ancient Taoist. It is not just my understanding, but that is the method. The above post that you had cited "Lü Dongbin asked his teacher Zhongli Quan" does not describe the Neidan method. I don't understand the last paragraph. I just want to know how people view Neidan and their understanding. So far, I have not seen anyone have a good description of Neidan as compared to the Chinese text.

Okey, what is your translation, please translate it for us. Compare with what - with your understanding of it? I understand what is criticized there and why. The main idea is that it should not be done from "egoistic" state of mind like "I" breath air into part of MY body, - the main problem that often people associate themselves with mind-ego and their body and trying to practice from egoistic dual mind state. But there are some requirements for real neidan work. Majority of qigong people do simple calisthenics or stupid anus muscle compression work.

Please state your method of Neidan. So we can compare it. Don't cite something that you don't really understood.

If I can read the original native version, then, why should I read someone's translation? PS The translation is confusing like hell. What is actually the real method in simple words? Who practiced with good results?

Please read the following thread

Did you know Neidan is a form of Qigong? The people in the west could never distinguish the two.

I thought the OP was about Neidan. It seems to me you dont see the difference between neidan and qigong

when ripe, the fruit falls full soft pear and satsuma juice, lips, tongue, sweet now.

Life, Death, is like that why collect if not to give when ripe, the fruit falls

singing a sad song, bare maple branches shiver; the moon's gaze, obscured.

@Nungali This song was probably written by one of those former little catholic kids -- just the way they heard it. I think it's brilliant, phonetically and poetically.

Far on down the track there's a monkey on the train singing a sad song

Yes, that was explained under the story post factum, and redditors also explained that it happened because the newspaper laid off everybody who used to be responsible for these things not happening. (Not its first rodeo with sloppiness.)

I think many/most people would agree with that. One person once, told me, 70-75. Because after that, they felt, it would just be un-needed suffering. I heard another one tell me, and they were in a quasi Daoist village, there was an old man, would walk into the village occasionally, the old guy said, he was 75. But the person telling me about it said "thing is. As a boy he remembered the same old man walking into the village saying he was 75 then. My take away; never admit being older than 75

Very refreshing. In my then-atheistic old country we used to celebrate the New Year with the same gusto that was reserved for Christmas in the non-atheistic parts of the world. This is the picture of the last New Year's tree I saw, located within a short walking distance from where I lived. It wasn't the main one in the city, and therefore not the biggest -- but it was nice, and fully real. Our Grandfather Frost is not unlike Santa, but dresses somewhat differently (the hat especially) and doesn't go down the chimney, nor scrutinizes kids for who's naughty and who's nice, everybody gets a present. Adults didn't exchange presents, those were exclusively for kids -- whereas adults just threw and/or attended a party, usually the biggest party of the year.

all systems come down to that, integrating 性 sexuality & 命 morality

I see where you get your information. However, I know where my contradicting is coming from. Anyway, you are entitle to believe what you have encountered. From my understanding, it contains misinformation that is very misleading.

LDT breathing is the key to all Qigong method. In Chinese term, Qigong, 气功, is the method of breathing. If you used other definition for Qigong. Good luck in you achievement. BTW The Chinese Taoist had defined LDT breathing for Neidan as follows: LDT breathing is done with reverse breathing. Of course, the normal breathing has to overcome in perfection first. Then, perform the reverse LDT breathing, hereinafter, doing the Neidan practice.