Obama's birth certificate

[h.uriahr]

Hello,

I am trying to understand your point, and I am obviously failing.

You have been asked how do you define a communist state and you mention a nation wide ID system, and the draft (that is, compulsory military service, right?).

 

This is not communism, many countries have a nation wide ID system. Italy has it from ages. When you are 16 you need to have your ID card. So what? It does not seem to make the situation much better or much worse. Nor do I see how it would make it more 'communism'.

 

Then you say that a draft will be a sign of communism. Sorry, no again. Because although you do have countries that call themselves communists (China, Russia pre Gorbachev) which had draft, they by no means are the only ones. Maybe all communists countriests have compulsory military service (maybe, meaning, I don't know), but there are surely plenty of non communists one that have it also. Look at Italy up to 10 years ago, look at Israel. Dictatorships often have draft. In short also draft is by no mean a tell tale of when a state is communist.

 

But now the question arises, what does it mean to be communist. Now I have a political dictionary (not here, but I looked up those words before leaving), and it describes socialism as: to each according to their abilities; and communism as: to each according to their needs. I would say this is the historical definition.

 

Maybe now the meaning have shifted, after all in recent years we had plenty of example of countries which defined themselves as communists and for sure were not following this definition. But still draft and ID seem not a good way to tell.

 

So I would repropose the question that was asked to you:

how do you define a communist state, and how do you define a socialist state?

 

Would you define sweden as a a socialist state, for example?

Would the situation be really that bad if it started to resemble sweedish one?

 

Thanks,

Pietro

 

You are adding things to what I said. I never said that a nation wide ID system was communistic. My point with all of what I said was that he is so charismatic that he will have you loving the chip he shoves up your ass in the end.

 

The entire world will be in a communist state. The one world government that will eventually arise will take control of everything. They will control housing and farmland for example. We will all be unified into one class of people with the exception of the ones in control of course.

 

Onto why socialism sucks. Socialism mainly sucks because you are still giving up things. For one thing, we in the US are a capitalist country and making a transition into socialism sucks. It's giving too much power to the government. You take away from the people and the government decides what needs produced and how much etc etc. Socialism also tries to pan out the money system which will get really hairy aswell, especially in a country where you have ditch diggers and people like Bill Gates. Socialism will lead to communism.

[Pietro]

You are adding things to what I said. I never said that a nation wide ID system was communistic. My point with all of what I said was that he is so charismatic that he will have you loving the chip he shoves up your ass in the end.

 

The entire world will be in a communist state. The one world government that will eventually arise will take control of everything. They will control housing and farmland for example. We will all be unified into one class of people with the exception of the ones in control of course.

 

Onto why socialism sucks. Socialism mainly sucks because you are still giving up things. For one thing, we in the US are a capitalist country and making a transition into socialism sucks. It's giving too much power to the government. You take away from the people and the government decides what needs produced and how much etc etc. Socialism also tries to pan out the money system which will get really hairy aswell, especially in a country where you have ditch diggers and people like Bill Gates. Socialism will lead to communism.

As I said, I was not understanding, so yes I tried to understand filling in the gaps. Thanks for claryfying.

 

You seem to be really concerned to lose control.

 

But some people seem to just be concerned to make the ends meet. And if the choise is between being in a capitalist country with a weak middle class or in a socialist country with a stronger middle class, would you rather be in the former?

 

Because all the statistics seem to suggest that in countries with a bit more control (not a lot, something like Canada or Sweden) people are generally more happy.

Now in those countries there was no slide from a social reformed state (I cannot call them socialist countries, sorry) to a communist country. But you seem very concerned that this is what would actually happen. Why? Especially why, if this is not what has happened in other countries? Couldn't you just do like the Swedish?

 

And remember that China, Cuba, Russia did not reach their government through a continuous series of reforms, but through a revolution. A revolution that did not start from a socialist situation but from a situation of great social imbalances. So I think strengthening the middle class, strengthening the government, will actually make the system more strong against the risk of a revolution. Wouldn't you agree?

[markern]

Impossible? Nope. A nation wide ID system was something never thought of or heard of and many people are still against it but guess what, in 2009 it begins to begin to be implemented. People also think that a draft wont ever happen but a democrat wrote and submitted the bill and a democrat is in the seat again so dont think the US wont have a draft in the next major war. As far as communism goes.

 

Some people will recognize it for what it is but all of the other people who are in awe over Barack wont call it communism but that's what it will be but they wont have any problems going along with it. I hate to break it to you there buddy but people have been hugely misled by their leaders before. Anytime you have a fresh face who reaks, leaks and speaks nothing but charisma you have a hugely misled population. They hang on their everyword and do everything he says with no problem.

 

The world has been forming "unions" for quite some time now so it's just a matter of when, not if, the US forms one with Canada and Mexico and a one world government is formed. The President of the US is referred to as the leader of the free world ALOT, so go figure that Obama is charismatic and will deceive and I will bet money that a union is formed following this worldwide economical problem.

 

A nation wide ID is extreemly far from forming a world government. It is impossible to form a world goverment when nobody and especially no countries army wants it. How is Obama going to make the military implement a plan for communism or world governement when absolutely no one in the army wants either one of those things? You need a power base to make a revolution and there just is no power base for any of these two ideas. How in practice should such a governement work anyway? How is the world governement run by Obama going to implement its policies in China, India, Iran, France and Russia. How can something like that be implementet when every country on earth would fight it bitterly?

 

The EU has taken 50 years to form wat it is now and it is still extreemly far away from anything that could be called a european state.

 

Why on earth do you claim Obama to be a communist anyway? What is your basis for that? He is clearly a fairly normal american liberal.

 

Your labeling of things and people being communist or socialist is absurd and false by any meaningfull definition. Communism implies complete state ownership of capital and 100% command economy. From the most extreemly free capitalist economy there is a sliding scale towards more and more state involvement which is still clearly capitalist untill it then becomes social democratic and then finaly communist. Countries like Sweden, Denmark and Canada ar largely social democratic countries. The US is actualy not as pure of a capitalist economy as many people asume and has largely never been. Goverment regulation, goverment redistribution, progressive taxation various state services etc have been a part of the american system for a long time. Your goverment actualy spends alomost as much on health care as social democracies like norway and Denmark but you are just so ineffiecient doing it that not much services is actualy provided unlike in these countries were healthcare is free universal and good. A slight increase in public spending a slight increase in the amount of taxes paid by the richest and a sligth decrease in the amount paid by the poorest isen`t going to make the US socialist. It`ll just move the US slightly closer to were Europe has happily been for a long time.

 

Communism you basicly only have in Norht Korea and Cuba. Almost nobody anywhere wants communism today. In Norway about 1% of the electorate vote for the comminst party. The same is the situation almost all over the world and especially amongst elite groups there is absloutely ZERO support for communism.

[h.uriahr]

A nation wide ID is extreemly far from forming a world government. It is impossible to form a world goverment when nobody and especially no countries army wants it. How is Obama going to make the military implement a plan for communism or world governement when absolutely no one in the army wants either one of those things? You need a power base to make a revolution and there just is no power base for any of these two ideas. How in practice should such a governement work anyway? How is the world governement run by Obama going to implement its policies in China, India, Iran, France and Russia. How can something like that be implementet when every country on earth would fight it bitterly?

 

The EU has taken 50 years to form wat it is now and it is still extreemly far away from anything that could be called a european state.

 

Why on earth do you claim Obama to be a communist anyway? What is your basis for that? He is clearly a fairly normal american liberal.

 

Your labeling of things and people being communist or socialist is absurd and false by any meaningfull definition. Communism implies complete state ownership of capital and 100% command economy. From the most extreemly free capitalist economy there is a sliding scale towards more and more state involvement which is still clearly capitalist untill it then becomes social democratic and then finaly communist. Countries like Sweden, Denmark and Canada ar largely social democratic countries. The US is actualy not as pure of a capitalist economy as many people asume and has largely never been. Goverment regulation, goverment redistribution, progressive taxation various state services etc have been a part of the american system for a long time. Your goverment actualy spends alomost as much on health care as social democracies like norway and Denmark but you are just so ineffiecient doing it that not much services is actualy provided unlike in these countries were healthcare is free universal and good. A slight increase in public spending a slight increase in the amount of taxes paid by the richest and a sligth decrease in the amount paid by the poorest isen`t going to make the US socialist. It`ll just move the US slightly closer to were Europe has happily been for a long time.

 

Communism you basicly only have in Norht Korea and Cuba. Almost nobody anywhere wants communism today. In Norway about 1% of the electorate vote for the comminst party. The same is the situation almost all over the world and especially amongst elite groups there is absloutely ZERO support for communism.

 

A national ID is the first step towards a global ID system. A world government would just take the unification of the US, Europe, Russia, China and Africa. With Obama aka Mr. Charisma in the Presidential seat it will be very easily done. The global economy sucks right now. All that's needed is for a scare or a crash in the economy and Obama can set up talks to form some kind of government for the world. All the countries might not see it as a good thing but alot will join that "union". The economy will be the reason it's formed but the unification will go beyond the economy. A global ID system and a global currency isnt far fetched. Obama said it himself, he wants to spread the wealth around. Controlling the land will be the next thing he says because he wants to be fair for to the middle and lower class. You dont have to have a revolution to have communism either.

 

As I said, I was not understanding, so yes I tried to understand filling in the gaps. Thanks for claryfying.

 

You seem to be really concerned to lose control.

 

But some people seem to just be concerned to make the ends meet. And if the choise is between being in a capitalist country with a weak middle class or in a socialist country with a stronger middle class, would you rather be in the former?

 

Because all the statistics seem to suggest that in countries with a bit more control (not a lot, something like Canada or Sweden) people are generally more happy.

Now in those countries there was no slide from a social reformed state (I cannot call them socialist countries, sorry) to a communist country. But you seem very concerned that this is what would actually happen. Why? Especially why, if this is not what has happened in other countries? Couldn't you just do like the Swedish?

 

And remember that China, Cuba, Russia did not reach their government through a continuous series of reforms, but through a revolution. A revolution that did not start from a socialist situation but from a situation of great social imbalances. So I think strengthening the middle class, strengthening the government, will actually make the system more strong against the risk of a revolution. Wouldn't you agree?

 

I could careless about my money just so long as I can provide for my family. I do however have a problem with people telling what to do and how to do it. It might not seem like a big deal when you talk about spreading money around to benefit everyone and having universal healthcare but what I'm saying is that it's a start to a bad bad thing. I think that if we have universal healthcare that you'll need a universal system to keep track of records, why not store them on a chip and implant them. It's already being marketed to prison systems, hospitals and schools.

 

http://www.verichipcorp.com/

 

A nation wide ID is extreemly far from forming a world government. It is impossible to form a world goverment when nobody and especially no countries army wants it. How is Obama going to make the military implement a plan for communism or world governement when absolutely no one in the army wants either one of those things? You need a power base to make a revolution and there just is no power base for any of these two ideas. How in practice should such a governement work anyway? How is the world governement run by Obama going to implement its policies in China, India, Iran, France and Russia. How can something like that be implementet when every country on earth would fight it bitterly?

 

The EU has taken 50 years to form wat it is now and it is still extreemly far away from anything that could be called a european state.

 

Why on earth do you claim Obama to be a communist anyway? What is your basis for that? He is clearly a fairly normal american liberal.

 

Your labeling of things and people being communist or socialist is absurd and false by any meaningfull definition. Communism implies complete state ownership of capital and 100% command economy. From the most extreemly free capitalist economy there is a sliding scale towards more and more state involvement which is still clearly capitalist untill it then becomes social democratic and then finaly communist. Countries like Sweden, Denmark and Canada ar largely social democratic countries. The US is actualy not as pure of a capitalist economy as many people asume and has largely never been. Goverment regulation, goverment redistribution, progressive taxation various state services etc have been a part of the american system for a long time. Your goverment actualy spends alomost as much on health care as social democracies like norway and Denmark but you are just so ineffiecient doing it that not much services is actualy provided unlike in these countries were healthcare is free universal and good. A slight increase in public spending a slight increase in the amount of taxes paid by the richest and a sligth decrease in the amount paid by the poorest isen`t going to make the US socialist. It`ll just move the US slightly closer to were Europe has happily been for a long time.

 

Communism you basicly only have in Norht Korea and Cuba. Almost nobody anywhere wants communism today. In Norway about 1% of the electorate vote for the comminst party. The same is the situation almost all over the world and especially amongst elite groups there is absloutely ZERO support for communism.

 

If I take a shit in a box and give it to you youd freak out because I it's shit but if you stumble upon some prehistoric dinosaur shit the entire scientific community would freak out and study it. Both are shit but ones marketed differently. Obama isnt going to come and go " Communism is the answer" , it'll be the same thing labelled and promoted in and entirely new light like maybe Compassionism.

[Anabhogya-Carya]

 

 

http://www.verichipcorp.com/

 

 

I fear the day when people will be made criminals for not getting "chipped." And also, Obama is not a communist, he is probably just as afraid as the rest of his country folk of the very word. I live in Canada and Obama's policies would hardly classify him as a liberal leaning conservative. The Canadian conservative party is more liberal than the american democrat party. Communism is a word that gets thrown around alot with little understanding of its pure concepts, as does capitalism... or any mass ideology for that matter.

[gendao]

http://www.verichipcorp.com/

If I take a shit in a box and give it to you youd freak out because I it's shit but if you stumble upon some prehistoric dinosaur shit the entire scientific community would freak out and study it. Both are shit but ones marketed differently. Obama isnt going to come and go " Communism is the answer" , it'll be the same thing labelled and promoted in and entirely new light like maybe Compassionism.

Agreed.

 

The thing most of these mass hypnotic movements all have in common is agitating and tooling the "underdogs" to revolt and overthrow the ruling regime...in order for the backroom (Leo) Straussian subversives running these ops to come in, takeover and centralize more power. I mean, if you study the Black civil rights and 2nd-wave feminist movements in this country, you would be surprised to find out who many of the original funders and top advisors actually were (not Black or female) and what their ulterior motives actually were...

 

Yes, it IS all about CHANGE. And with each new location and generation, the overthrow comes in a slightly different permutation and is rebranded a different name to adapt to each new unique setting.

 

Remember, NAZIsm was socialism for working-class Germans suffering from their post-WWI Depression - that later turned into despotic fascism.

 

Communism was "proletariat" empowerment - that later turned into arguably the most destructive cancer humanity has known - to both proletariats and old money bourgeois alike. Particularly in Russia where it tortured and killed around 50 million, making the NAZIs look like Cub Scouts! Because the main purpose obviously wasn't really to empower the proletariats, but to dethrone the royal Romanov dynasty. Proletariats were just disposable & sacrificial pawns in this global chess match.

 

Bottomline is, CHANGE = REGIME CHANGE by dividing and conquering a host country through agitating class warfare. This is analagous to a virus (like HIV) causing an autoimmune disorder (like AIDS) in a host to destroy itself. And whatever "underclass" they promise to empower are just the weaker, more vulnerable cells they infect first - yet ironically also often the first to die off.

 

I mean, the proof's in the pudding. And after 50 years of "progressive" activism, this country is now in critical condition. We're drowning in debt, our social structures have fissioned and most of our high industry is outsourced now. A lot of changes happened simultaneously, but overall, hasn't the net effect been disastrous? Are we about to lose our sovereignty to a global authority?

 

I'm not saying Obama will be this bad - hopefully not. And I still prefer him to McCain. But, I personally don't expect too much out of him, and feel the real candidate for real hope (Ron Paul) was totally marginalized by the corporate lamestream out of contention.

Edited November 17, 2008 by vortex

[h.uriahr]

For the record I could be completely wrong about my prediction but I dont think so.

[asanjuan2008]

How do you define socialism as opposed to communism? It seems what you actualy mean is social democracy like we have in Norway, Sweden and Denmark, meaning a combination of a capitalist economy with a large state sector and heavy redistribution of wealth. If that is the case I can assure you there will be no problems as almost all types of international rankings rate our quality of life a good bit above that of the USA despite our "horrbile" "socialism". Actualy rankings with regards to freedom of the press and democracy usualy put these countries well ahead of the US as well so you needn`t be concerned about your freedom either.

 

+1

 

Everytime someone here says "socialism" as if it were some disease, I have to laugh, as many socialists states have higher living standards than the USA.

 

I'll also point out that many "semi-communist" nations like China have proven remarkably resilient to economic disasters recently, including the 1997 currency crises in Asia which absolutely destroyed the living standards of capitalist countries around it like the Philippines and Thailand (and which needed Chinese actions to curtail the disaster), as well as the current crises.

 

In the end, the middle ground is always better.

 

 

 

 

I fear the day when people will be made criminals for not getting "chipped." And also, Obama is not a communist, he is probably just as afraid as the rest of his country folk of the very word. I live in Canada and Obama's policies would hardly classify him as a liberal leaning conservative. The Canadian conservative party is more liberal than the american democrat party. Communism is a word that gets thrown around alot with little understanding of its pure concepts, as does capitalism... or any mass ideology for that matter.

 

Another +1

[Smile]

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