Internal Cultivation

[goldisheavy]

Qi and Jing are not in the realm of Classical Newtonian Mechanics. Their effects are Newtonian and visible but they by themselves aren't Newtonian. I don't know what they are though.

 

Right-o. Because the Chinese who developed these concepts did not believe in Newtonian materialism. Qi is the subtle feelings you feel in your body. These feelings are left unsystematized by many cultures, but in the Qigong culture they are systematized, structured. The structure is called "meridians". This structure is completely cultural. Other cultures have other structures that work just as well for them as the Chinese qi meridians work for Chinese. Qi is also a concept that refers to the animating principle behind all that is animated.

 

In Chinese "qigong" mind, the mind is not just something the brain produces. The mind is something of itself, like a force field that stretches forever. The mind has intent. Phenomena follow intent (yi). The first phenomena that follow intent are the subtle feelings that only you feel. But if you keep practicing, it's possible that these subtle manifestations become not-so-subtle, and others can then feel them as well. To some extent this requires that those others share in your world view. I say to some extent, because if you are completely convinced it is real, then what others think doesn't matter. But if there is even a tiniest doubt, the other people's minds have to complement your mind in order for your projections to work.

 

In other words, the mind has direct impact on appearances without having to go through the agency of the Newtonian rules, according to qi gong.

 

One explanation I've heard is that Jing is a waveform. It sure feels that way on application as well...

 

But waves are forces though. Haven't you ever been knocked off your feet by a big ocean wave?

Edited November 22, 2008 by goldisheavy

[Spirit Ape]

Thanks Gold, Well the method we was using we both was receiving the same blows and looking for tension within each other or the awareness to structure but without that much intent. Im sure he didnt consent to me damaging his body like i did and we was using no intent to a degree the strikes wasnt hard at all!

 

Dont talk to me about Lunatics i work in mental health brother and i deal with some major issues from the most violent to passive clients that police bring in. Ice, speed, coke and all the other drugs they mix together they can be a handful to takedown as there pain threshold is different but we are all human and sooner or later with good leverage and timing can bring down the most violent agressive person.

 

Thanks for your reply i know where your going with your attacks on me but im sorry it aint working, like i said im content and i know my limitations in my arts!

 

Take care friend

Ape

[goldisheavy]

Thanks for your reply i know where your going with your attacks on me but im sorry it aint working, like i said im content and i know my limitations in my arts!

 

Take care friend

Ape

 

This is silly. I am not attacking you. I might, might dispute some opinion of yours, but your opinions are not you, I hope. And disputing an opinion is not the same as attacking it. If you want to put the least charitable interpretation on what I am doing, you can say I am an agitated and discontent debater. Certainly I don't seek to attack your person.

 

On the contrary. What I seek to do is to enable or to assist as many people as possible to gain total power, including the power to destroy me in the blink of an eye, or the power to brainwash me, and so on. I teach people how they can best brainwash me, if that's what they want. I show them where my vulnerabilities are and show them how to use that effectively against me. So far no one actually took advantage of that, but that's not my problem. At the same time, by acting in this way, I do become more powerful internally. But I share everything I know. I don't come here and give people 10% of what I know. I always give 100%.

 

So, whether you know it or not, you are right to call me your friend.

[Spirit Ape]

Gold,

 

Thankyou for not attacking me!

 

I give out enough information as i also ask alot of questions because i like to see where people are at and see if there is a different way for me to understand the knowledge i have learnt over the years. There are a few people on this forum that i think they have a good idea of taoist theories as well other theories that im into. I like your honesty i must say!

 

Be well

Ape

[adam mizner]

what a pity...

 

You are mixing Buddhism into Taoism and in the process completely misunderstanding and misrepresenting Taoism. This happens a lot on this website. Why do Buddhists here seem so hell bent on converting Taoists to Buddhism.

 

Above you said you "tap into the 4 elements". In Taoism there are 5 "elements" wu xing, the five agents, and you don't tap into them, you harmonize them.

 

You say Liu I-Ming says the"dantien method" is a lower method. That is a gross misunderstanding:

 

"... from beginning to end, doing and not doing, culling medicine and working the fire, crystallizing the pill, and freeing it from the matrix - the Tao is not to be left for a moment." Liu I-Ming

 

You say you don't know much about (Taoist) philosophy, and want me to define the basic terms for you:

 

"If you do not understand the celestial mechanism, stop spouting off in front of people." Liu I-Ming

 

Since you don't understand these basics, you should stick to describing Buddhism, and leave describing Taoism to the Taoists.

[adam mizner]

you have no idea what i know, it seems to me you arnt getting the message from lu i ming but just reading the fancy terms. i have no need or desire to convert people to Buddhism, a question was asked and i answered it. my answers and view come from direct experience and reralization this is what i am saying when i say i dont know much about philosophy as all philosophy is in the realm of thoughts. how you can quote lu i ming and in the same post use terms like buddhist and taoist as a seperation tool amuses me.

 

metta

adam

 

You are mixing Buddhism into Taoism and in the process completely misunderstanding and misrepresenting Taoism. This happens a lot on this website. Why do Buddhists here seem so hell bent on converting Taoists to Buddhism.

 

Above you said you "tap into the 4 elements". In Taoism there are 5 "elements" wu xing, the five agents, and you don't tap into them, you harmonize them.

 

You say Liu I-Ming says the"dantien method" is a lower method. That is a gross misunderstanding:

 

"... from beginning to end, doing and not doing, culling medicine and working the fire, crystallizing the pill, and freeing it from the matrix - the Tao is not to be left for a moment." Liu I-Ming

 

You say you don't know much about (Taoist) philosophy, and want me to define the basic terms for you:

 

"If you do not understand the celestial mechanism, stop spouting off in front of people." Liu I-Ming

 

Since you don't understand these basics, you should stick to describing Buddhism, and leave describing Taoism to the Taoists.

 

 

hi

 

i have no problem with dan tien work, have done lots of it. its all good. happy to share ideas.

 

metta

adam

 

I asked the question because its a friggin forum dude, to see what others do, to see what others know that is why im here.

 

Im happy with my practices! I teach and i practice, im content with what i have but at the same time i keep an open mind to learn something new!

 

Adam,

 

I understand what you are trying to say my art is also based on Void and Emptiness on certain parts of fighting theory and cultivation be it physcial (internal) mentally and spiritually if you want to go there. But we also have the Dan Tian bringing it all back there on many other levels.

 

Thanks for putting in the effort and your thoughts, much appreciated!

 

Spirit Ape

 

Xuesheng,

 

Depending on what type of energy is released can effect your own body as well the persons recieving that force! A student I have that lived with me and comes visit me alot learnt what i consider Soft Power that truly gave him some injuries that scared the beejesus out of my wife when he showed me his bruising to his chest cavity. The strikes i did was soft energy but i gave no structure but found his center which gave this outcome even though this was to try and make him take a shot using Dragon Body theory (no structure) i guess my energy was softer and more pentrating at that time. If i used brute strength and more structured striking i think i would have made much less demage due to him recieving the impact and he connecting to my structure during the contact of the strike. ( LOL just woke up so if this sounds wrong sorry)!!!

 

Ape

[dwai]

Right-o. Because the Chinese who developed these concepts did not believe in Newtonian materialism. Qi is the subtle feelings you feel in your body. These feelings are left unsystematized by many cultures, but in the Qigong culture they are systematized, structured. The structure is called "meridians". This structure is completely cultural. Other cultures have other structures that work just as well for them as the Chinese qi meridians work for Chinese. Qi is also a concept that refers to the animating principle behind all that is animated.

 

In Chinese "qigong" mind, the mind is not just something the brain produces. The mind is something of itself, like a force field that stretches forever. The mind has intent. Phenomena follow intent (yi). The first phenomena that follow intent are the subtle feelings that only you feel. But if you keep practicing, it's possible that these subtle manifestations become not-so-subtle, and others can then feel them as well. To some extent this requires that those others share in your world view. I say to some extent, because if you are completely convinced it is real, then what others think doesn't matter. But if there is even a tiniest doubt, the other people's minds have to complement your mind in order for your projections to work.

 

In other words, the mind has direct impact on appearances without having to go through the agency of the Newtonian rules, according to qi gong.

But waves are forces though. Haven't you ever been knocked off your feet by a big ocean wave?

 

Hi Goldisheavy,

 

I understand what you are saying. What I am trying to say here is that this Subtle mind-stuff doesn't become non-subtle simply. There has to be a technique that converts it from subtle-stuff to non-subtle stuff.

 

And this will work whether or not the other believes in it. Just because we can't yet measure it doesn't mean it is probabilistic. Here's a nice definition of a Wave.

 

A wave is a disturbance that propagates through space and time, usually with transference of energy.

 

So the transference of energy has to happen. Where does that Energy come from? What is that energy? That is the million dollar question