The practice of Neidan(內丹)

[Antares]

14 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

LDT breathing is the key to all Qigong method. In Chinese term, Qigong, 气功, is the method of breathing.

I thought the OP was about Neidan. It seems to me you dont see the difference between neidan and qigong

[ChiDragon]

6 minutes ago, Antares said:

I thought the OP was about Neidan. It seems to me you dont see the difference between neidan and qigong

Did you know Neidan is a form of Qigong? The people in the west could never distinguish the two.

Edited yesterday at 09:51 PM by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

41 minutes ago, Antares said:

So you probably think that neidan is smth like modern yoga, for example: breath into dantien, tighten up anus, breath out, enjoy. Correct? 

That is not what I think it is, but it is.

Tighten up anus is optional, it only good in doing some demos.

[Antares]

11 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

That is not what I think it is, but it is.

Please read the following thread

 

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Antares said:

Please read the following thread

 

If I can read the original native version, then, why should I read someone's translation? 

 

PS The translation is confusing like hell. What is actually the real method in simple words? Who practiced with good results?

Edited 23 hours ago by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

Please state your method of Neidan. So we can compare it. Don't cite something that you don't really understood. 

Edited 20 hours ago by ChiDragon

[Antares]

8 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

The translation is confusing like hell

Okey, what is your translation, please translate it for us.

 

5 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Please state your method of Neidan. So we can compare it.

 

Compare with what - with your understanding of it?

 

5 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Don't cite something that you don't really understood. 

 

I understand what is criticized there and why. The main idea is that it should not be done from "egoistic" state of mind like "I" breath air into part of MY body, - the main problem that often people associate themselves with mind-ego and their body and trying to practice from egoistic dual mind state. But there are some requirements for real neidan work. Majority of qigong people do simple calisthenics or stupid anus muscle compression work.   

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Antares said:

Okey, what is your translation, please translate it for us.

 

 

Compare with what - with your understanding of it?

 

 

I understand what is criticized there and why. The main idea is that it should not be done from "egoistic" state of mind like "I" breath air into part of MY body, - the main problem that often people associate themselves with mind-ego and their body and trying to practice from egoistic dual mind state. But there are some requirements for real neidan work. Majority of qigong people do simple calisthenics or stupid anus muscle compression work.   

I have translated what Neidan is many times. Who pays attention to it?

 

Neidan is a known method of Qigong defined by the ancient Taoist. It is not just my understanding, but that is the method.

The above post that you had cited "Lü Dongbin asked his teacher Zhongli Quan" does not describe the Neidan method.

 

I don't understand the last paragraph. 

 

I just want to know how people view Neidan and their understanding. So far, I have not seen anyone have a good description of Neidan as compared to the Chinese text.

[Antares]

22 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

The above post that you had cited "Lü Dongbin asked his teacher Zhongli Quan" does not describe the Neidan method.

The method is not transmitted through texts, but only through personal contact with a teacher. Texts serve as a brief cheat sheet so that future generations have reference points for what neidan is. I assume that the teachers of the past anticipated future turbulent times and left behind a legacy in the form of these cheat sheets, where the method is described only in symbolic form. It is not described anywhere in the books, to prevent anyone from having the desire to invent their own methods, which would lead to deviations. These methods are only passed on to those who have the Destiny. Most often, Chinese people pass them on only to other Chinese, sometimes to other Asians, and very rarely to Westerners. What is described in books is just a small, distorted part of neidan. Often, Chinese people share some information with Westerners due to commercial interests, but they do not share everything. Therefore, it is foolish to expect a complete description in open sources

[ChiDragon]

Well, how do you describe the method of Neidan in your own words? Besides "oh boy".

In your own understanding, what is Neidan? How do you practice? If one knew it so well, why not shed some light for us?

 

[ChiDragon]

5 minutes ago, Antares said:

The method is not transmitted through texts, but only through personal contact with a teacher. Texts serve as a brief cheat sheet so that future generations have reference points for what neidan is.

I see! What you are saying that I should not have initiated the OP to ask the question then! 

[Antares]

45 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Well, how do you describe the method of Neidan in your own words? Besides "oh boy".

 

Sorry, my reaction to your posts related to your statements that neidan is a form of qigong. I gave explanations of their difference many times in different threads. Read the article here

https://all-dao.com/difference-qigong-alchemy.html

 

 

[Cobie]

 

1 hour ago, Antares said:

... I assume ...

 

edit:

Indeed, and that's your problem.

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

11 minutes ago, Antares said:

 

Sorry, my reaction to your posts related to your statements that neidan is a form of qigong. I gave explanations of their difference many times in different threads. Read the article here

https://all-dao.com/difference-qigong-alchemy.html

 

 

I see where you get your information. However, I know where my contradicting is coming from. Anyway, you are entitle to believe what you have encountered. From my understanding, it contains  misinformation that is very misleading. 

[Antares]

4 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Indeed, and that's the problem.

Yes, indeed, if you look at people's heart-minds states and the fact that they are not even interested in any alchemy work  - that's the problem. Why you think Daoists did not leave behind clear and straight explanation of Neidan?

[Antares]

1 minute ago, ChiDragon said:

From my understanding, it contains  misinformation that is very misleading.

Alright, so you want to say that Daoist scriptures mislead people too and here we have only you who knows all the Truth?

Why to ask the AI in such the case?

[Cobie]

 

21 minutes ago, Antares said:

Yes, indeed, if you look at people's heart-minds states and the fact that they are not even interested in any alchemy work  - that's the problem. Why you think Daoists did not leave behind clear and straight explanation of Neidan?

 

I have edited my post.

 

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

30 minutes ago, Antares said:

Alright, so you want to say that Daoist scriptures mislead people too and here we have only you who knows all the Truth?

Why to ask the AI in such the case?

First of all, I didn't say that the Daoist scriptures mislead people too, but the translation done by a layman is.

 

To answer your last question.

The reason is I want to test how accurate that AI is responding to my proper questions. It is because I understood what qigong and neidan are all about. 

Edited 10 hours ago by ChiDragon

[damdao]

While it is true that not everybody has the obligation to know what neidan is, mainly because it is, perhaps, the less spread of the spiritual systems, the misinformation that qigong and neidan are the same has to be stopped. 

We know that qigong is a modern umbrella term for several traditional practices more or less adapted (and sometimes diluted). Practices like yangsheng (not to be confused with yangshen), daoyin, neigong (either martial or medical), etc. were fused in one model: qigong. But neidan was not part of this process, although some neidan methods can be found from time to time in qigong systems.

Besides, there is the difference in method and energy used (already explained by Antares).

 

 

[Antares]

5 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

but the translation done by a layman is.

From Chinese translation was done by D. Artemiev who is the personal student of Teacher Of Single Yang. Also he was the personal student of Evgeny Torchinov who was an expert in Chinese (including ancient Chinese) and published a few books on Buddhism and Daoism. At least he knows  methods of a few Daoist Pai's. Who are you and what is your background in any Daoist school?

5 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

It is because I understood what qigong and neidan are all about. 

If you mean that Neidan is all about how to breath AIR into "lower dantien" lets just say you need to have it first and also i wonder how you get air into there and what it can do from neidan perspective.

Edited 5 hours ago by Antares

[Antares]

6 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

From my understanding, it contains  misinformation that is very misleading. 

No problem, just do what you you think is right for you, no stress! But you cant be Daoist if you do not practice any methods of any authentic Daoist school. I see a trend here of people who essentially have no connection to Daoist practices trying to capture the attention of other people in this section of the forum. They are simply inventing their own methods, creating their own texts, and following them. Moreover, they encourage others to do the same. It's a personal choice for each individual. However, there is a section dedicated to esoteric methods. Wouldn't it be better to share their musings there, rather than cluttering this section of the forum?

[ChiDragon]

Okay! If you all have make up your mind of what you had injected. I'll quit from here before I get banned. Peace on TDB.

Edited 5 hours ago by ChiDragon

[stirling]

11 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Okay! If you all have make up your mind of what you had injected. I'll quit from here before I get banned. Peace on TDB.

You aren’t going to be banned for having a contrary opinion, but you might need support it robustly. 🙂

 

Since you are new here, take some time to evaluate for yourself our cast of characters before you decide who knows what is true.

 

Hint: Teachers with real insight tend to be kind. _/\_

[ChiDragon]

24 minutes ago, stirling said:

Since you are new here, take some time to evaluate for yourself our cast of characters before you decide who knows what is true.

Hahaha I am not new here at all. I was banned about three times already by telling the truth. 

 

PS 

Ofc my truth may not be somebody else's truth. 

Edited 4 hours ago by ChiDragon

[stirling]

11 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Hahaha I am not new here at all. I was banned about three times already by telling the truth. 

“The truth” is a rare commodity. If you are convinced that it belongs to you, be prepared to find out that it doesn’t, eventually.