Apech Posted Monday at 10:33 PM Ok. I'm going to talk through this and the next two stages (from the papyrus of Khonshu-mes). Sorry about the title I couldn't think of anything better. It's from a papyrus written in the 21st Dyn. in Thebes for the priest Khonshu-mes. It is one of the so-called mythological papyri which were produced in this late period which consist of almost entirely illustrations with little or no text. We are starting in the West which means the body. With death and mummification. Sorry the pic is a bit blurred but I probs with the image capture and getting it big enough. I'll go through what it shows and try to explain what it means in subsequent posts. Questions welcome (but please try to stay on topic if at all possible). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted Tuesday at 06:42 AM The 'object' 2nd from the right ( to the left of the far right figure ... a skin and ... ? ) looks interesting . Looks like a nome 'totem' ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted Tuesday at 11:31 AM 4 hours ago, Nungali said: The 'object' 2nd from the right ( to the left of the far right figure ... a skin and ... ? ) looks interesting . Looks like a nome 'totem' ? Yes it is called Imy-wt which can be translated as 'he who is in his wrappings' or 'one who is in his skin' - although the literal translation which I prefer is just 'in the skin' (imy means 'in, between' and wt means skin or wrappings.) It is also a title of Anubis and a symbol for mummification. It is a pole from which hangs an animal skin which has been stuffed. In my view it is the most important thing in the whole scene as it depicts how we are to view the body. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted Tuesday at 07:51 PM I have seen them occasionally and wondered what they were ? I assumed a totem or ' standard ' of a Nome or God . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted Tuesday at 08:26 PM 33 minutes ago, Nungali said: I have seen them occasionally and wondered what they were ? I assumed a totem or ' standard ' of a Nome or God . I think it was more than to remind us of mummification. I think it was a meditative symbol for a certain state of being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted Tuesday at 09:03 PM Would you say the term 'fetish ' ( in anthropological sense ) would describe this ? A fetish is described as ; something to house a spirit or ancestor , something power like a charm or sacred object , something a special function ; protection, healing , etc . The Imy-wt is said to predate the 1st dynasty ? I wondering if it is one of those early 'throwbacks ' to some of the African traditions that entered the Nile Valley ( as the ank symbol might be ? ) ( the name fetish was given to the magical objects encountered in west Africa - Portugese > ' fetico ' > 'charm / magic ' . . . originally ' made for / as art ' . ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted Tuesday at 10:36 PM 1 hour ago, Nungali said: Would you say the term 'fetish ' ( in anthropological sense ) would describe this ? A fetish is described as ; something to house a spirit or ancestor , something power like a charm or sacred object , something a special function ; protection, healing , etc . The Imy-wt is said to predate the 1st dynasty ? I wondering if it is one of those early 'throwbacks ' to some of the African traditions that entered the Nile Valley ( as the ank symbol might be ? ) ( the name fetish was given to the magical objects encountered in west Africa - Portugese > ' fetico ' > 'charm / magic ' . . . originally ' made for / as art ' . ) Yes a fetish as in a cult object of Anubis. In the funerary cult they used deities and symbols in a special way - all relating to the immortality project (you might call it) (as we mentioned in the Stele thread.). So here I believe it has a specific meaning - while elsewhere it might be used as a general cult object relating to Anubis and so on. When we get to the goddesses Isis and Nephthys you might see this clearly - that while say Isis has a whole form of worship of her own and all sorts of attributes etc. here she is used specifically for a 'technical' reason as part of the funerary process of transformation into an akh and/or 'living after death'. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted yesterday at 04:50 PM To the left of the Imy-wt symbol is the mummy on a bier or lion bed being attended to by Anubis. At the head of the bed is Nephthys and at the foot Isis. They are both touching a 'shen' symbol. Below the bed are four canopic jars and then to the left of this are the four sons of Horus which protect those jars. Isis and Nephthys are here representing something specific which can be shown by a quote from the Pyramid Texts: “Isis ascends with the day / is in the light, Nephthys descends with the night / is in the darkness.” So they represent two phases of a circulation. Up into the light (Isis) and down into the dark (Nephthys). The shen symbol confirms this as its meaning is 'to encircle' and has the extended meaning of 'all that is encircled by the sun' i.e. everything and forever i.e. eternity. It was this symbol which was slightly amended to form the cartouche which framed the king's names - and indicated the king was an eternal (non ordinary) being. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted yesterday at 09:29 PM The beir or 'lion bed ' . What is the significance of the lion here ? [ I have one on my small back verandah / landing ; I had a statue of Anubis with hands extended over a mummy lying on a bier with a big lions head on one end . It got moved around ( after sitting on the table on my GFs side of the bed - she was working as a mortician then ) the mummy was a separate piece and ended up ??? The rest ended up outside near the bench I sit on to have my morning coffee fix . Out in the garden I saw a bush turkey come in and start digging up a new plant , I hoiked a stick at it , hit a tree, bounced off , got Anubis, knocked off an arm and one ear . So now this lion bier just sits there like a little table on the bench ] 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted yesterday at 09:38 PM 8 minutes ago, Nungali said: The beir or 'lion bed ' . What is the significance of the lion here ? [ I have one on my small back verandah / landing ; I had a statue of Anubis with hands extended over a mummy lying on a bier with a big lions head on one end . It got moved around ( after sitting on the table on my GFs side of the bed - she was working as a mortician then ) the mummy was a separate piece and ended up ??? The rest ended up outside near the bench I sit on to have my morning coffee fix . Out in the garden I saw a bush turkey come in and start digging up a new plant , I hoiked a stick at it , hit a tree, bounced off , got Anubis, knocked off an arm and one ear . So now this lion bier just sits there like a little table on the bench ] I believe the lion is a reference to the two Rekhty - Shu and Tefnut who form the horizon (sometimes). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 22 hours ago Its almost as if the Egyptians believed nothing existed by itself but in relation to everything else . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted 2 hours ago So now the beginning of the complicated part: The organs placed in the Canopic Jars were the lungs, liver, stomach and intestines. It is not that the Egyptians didn't know about other organs but these were chosen deliberately. Their relative positions in the body are shown as follows: The organs were paired as follows: lungs and liver stomach and intestines Collectively the first two were under the protection of Hapi and Imsety (two of the sons of Horus); and the second two under Duamutef and Quebhsenuef. As pairs these were sometimes known as the Souls of Pe and the Souls of Nekhen. Where Pe and Nekhen are the ancient capitals of Lower and Upper Egypt. Pe (as part of the double town Pe and Dep had the tutelary deity Wadjet ( the cobra goddess ) and in Nekhen - Nekhabet the vulture goddess. They are also related to the two crowns, Red of the North and White for the South. Symbolically the upper part of the body is North and the lower part is South. So liver and lungs related to red and stomach and intestines to white. The task is to unite the two kingdoms north and south into one. So the task in terms of the body is to unite the upper and lower parts into one. NB. there is also the head which we will leave till later. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 1 hour ago (edited) Hmmmm .... but that which does unite them is at the top of your image ...... no ? ( ' Sema ' ) Also it seems the body , or at least the Pharaoh's body * , is a 'microcosm' of the Nile , or the 'two lands ' ? * or the 'canopic elements ' of his body . Edited 1 hour ago by Nungali 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted 1 hour ago 25 minutes ago, Nungali said: Hmmmm .... but that which does unite them is at the top of your image ...... no ? ( ' Sema ' ) Also it seems the body , or at least the Pharaoh's body * , is a 'microcosm' of the Nile , or the 'two lands ' ? * or the 'canopic elements ' of his body . good observation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites