Does Zhan Zhuang make the legs strong?

[FluffyGuardian]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

Question: I know the Chen style Taiji is more stressful than the Yang style. Do you feel any pain on your upper thigh of one leg during the transition when you lift up the other leg?

 

I would like to clarify that while I practice Chen Style, what I practice is not representative of mainstream Chen Style Taijiquan. I do not want people to misconstrue what I've said to mean that this is what all Chen Style is like. It's not. 

As for where the pain is located, it depends on one's level of practice. So yes, the pain can be in the upper thighs and quads. The nature of the pain changes over time. 

 

However, I would say that this particular method is very intensive on the glutes. The glute of the weighted leg becomes rather hard; a location that we call "Kua Gen" which essentially the "heel" of your butt. So our butts tend to hurt a lot. 

 

For our method, the glute has a lot to do with "root". For us, we have a notion of "Grab the root" which involves a connection between the glutes, hamstrings, heel, and the ground. Contrary to most Taijiquan methods (including other Chen style), where they place their weight on the Yongquan point of the foot, we actually place our weight on the heels. Many things we do are just very different than other Taiji methods.

 

While I totally understand why some people might think that "eating bitter" is just the parent/teacher being spiteful for their childhood abuse, in what I practice, the physical demand on the legs has a very clear, practical, logical purpose for building other mechanics that require the monstrous leg stability. 

 

In the long run, the legs aren't the final goal here. The final goal is Shen Fa (Body Method), including lots of various complex mechanics as they relate to the torso. Every martial art is both “Internal” and “External”, but in terms of body mechanics, what makes an art more “Internal” than another art is having a higher ratio of body to limb connection.  

 

The reason we demand the legs to be really strong is that once we introduce Shen Fa, those mechanics threaten the foundation of the leg. 

 

To use an analogy, it's like a helicopter in flight. On the outside, the body of the helicopter looks very stable. But "internally", it's constantly fighting against the big propeller. The tail propeller has to constantly provide side thrust in the opposite direction just to achieve stability. In a sense... that tail propeller sort of functions like a "root". 

 

[ChiDragon]

23 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said:

I would like to clarify that while I practice Chen Style, what I practice is not representative of mainstream Chen Style Taijiquan. I do not want people to misconstrue what I've said to mean that this is what all Chen Style is like. It's not. 

I am puzzling of you are are telling me. You said you are practice the Chen style Taiji, but then you said it was not. So, what it is really?

[ChiDragon]

23 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said:

As for where the pain is located, it depends on one's level of practice. So yes, the pain can be in the upper thighs and quads. The nature of the pain changes over time. 

 

However, I would say that this particular method is very intensive on the glutes. The glute of the weighted leg becomes rather hard; a location that we call "Kua Gen" which essentially the "heel" of your butt. So our butts tend to hurt a lot. 

I believe the location of the pain occurs depends where the tension was applied. 

[ChiDragon]

23 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said:

For our method, the glute has a lot to do with "root". For us, we have a notion of "Grab the root" which involves a connection between the glutes, hamstrings, heel, and the ground. Contrary to most Taijiquan methods (including other Chen style), where they place their weight on the Yongquan point of the foot, we actually place our weight on the heels. Many things we do are just very different than other Taiji methods.

 

Form your words by context, it seems to me that you are practicing completely different from the Chen style Taiji. 

Due to the location of the Yongquan point of the foot(湧湶穴),  I don't think it's possible put the body weight on it. However, due the physical structure of the human body, place the weight on the heels is more accurate to say.

" For us, we have a notion of "Grab the root" which involves a connection between the glutes, hamstrings, heel, and the ground." This statement with the word "ground" in it will make it valid. "Ground" implies that the foot is sticking to the ground. The heel touching the ground is the pivot point that provides leverage and stability for body movements. It was known that an unstable body will not able to execute its strength to its full extend for body movement.

BTW Based on your words like: "Many things we do are just very different than other Taiji methods," I cannot come up with any justification to agree with those words. Perhaps you might enlighten me with where or who did you learn your Taiji style from? Thanks!

[ChiDragon]

On 9/21/2025 at 1:12 PM, FluffyGuardian said:

The reason we demand the legs to be really strong is that once we introduce Shen Fa, those mechanics threaten the foundation of the leg. 

In the notion of making the legs strong, yes, it just come with the package whether you like it or not. 

I know what Fa(法) is in "Shen Fa"; but I don't know what is shen. It couldn't be 神. Do you happen to know what the Chinese character for shen is here?

[FluffyGuardian]

52 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I am puzzling of you are are telling me. You said you are practice the Chen style Taiji, but then you said it was not. So, what it is really?

 

You're missing a keyword here. Basically, I do not practice "mainstream" Chen Taijiquan which essentially means what I practice is not the popular type. 

As far as Chen Style is concerned, the most "mainstream" and popular would likely be Lao Jia (Old Frame), especially from figures like Chen Xiaowang and Chen Zhenglei. 

 

Laojia is so popular that whenever Chen Style is talked about, people generally assume it's Laojia. 

However, Chen Style has other "frames" of practice such as Xiao Jia (Small Frame) which refers to a different lineage. 

 

In what I practice, it is called Gongfu Jia which stems from Chen Zhaokui's lineage. Chen Zhaokui is Chen Fa'ke's younger son. 

 

Quote

BTW Based on your words like: "Many things we do are just very different than other Taiji methods," I cannot come up with any justification to agree with those words. Perhaps you might enlighten me with where or who did you learn your Taiji style from?

 

Well... here is Chen Zhaokui's one and only son, Chen Yu doing a section of Er Lu (the second form of Gongfu Frame): 
 

You mentioned that you struggle to agree how Taiji methods can be very different. Well... does this video change your mind at all? Or do you somehow think a Wu Style practitioner, for instance, could somehow move like this if he wanted to?
 

Quote

In the notion of making the legs strong, yes, it just come with the package whether you like it or not. 

I know what Fa(法) is in "Shen Fa"; but I don't know what is shen. It couldn't be 神. Do you happen to know what the Chinese character for shen is here?

 

"Shen Fa" would be 身法 in Chinese. It's not "神" which would mean "spirit". Pronounciation is also different: shēn vs shén. 

 

One example of Shen Fa as it relates to Gongfu Jia is Xiōng yāo zhédié (胸腰折叠), which translates to Chest and Waist Folding. This is unique to Gongfu Jia. Other Chen Style frames don't have this terminology or method.



 

[ChiDragon]

42 minutes ago, FluffyGuardian said:

You mentioned that you struggle to agree how Taiji methods can be very different. Well... does this video change your mind at all? Or do you somehow think a Wu Style practitioner, for instance, could somehow move like this if he wanted to?
 

Ok, I see what you meant. The video you had shown is called "fast Taiji" that can be performed at a higher level with any style of Taiji. Yes, I had seen a higher level student performed in my Yang style class when I was a beginner. BTW The practice was not from scratch. The ability of the performer has to be practiced for years to build up the body to do so. Any performer with this kind of ability, I would like to refer that the performer is being possessed a Taiji body.

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, FluffyGuardian said:

You're missing a keyword here. Basically, I do not practice "mainstream" Chen Taijiquan which essentially means what I practice is not the popular type. 

As far as Chen Style is concerned, the most "mainstream" and popular would likely be Lao Jia (Old Frame), especially from figures like Chen Xiaowang and Chen Zhenglei. 

 

Laojia is so popular that whenever Chen Style is talked about, people generally assume it's Laojia. 

However, Chen Style has other "frames" of practice such as Xiao Jia (Small Frame) which refers to a different lineage. 

 

In what I practice, it is called Gongfu Jia which stems from Chen Zhaokui's lineage. Chen Zhaokui is Chen Fa'ke's younger son. 

 

So, you are saying that you were starting with Chen Yu Gongfu Jia. You are performing the practice at the speed as shown in the video to begin with?

BTW If you had start practicing with that speed to begin with a cold body, then, I know why you have all kinds of pains all over your body!

Notes: 
1. A cold body is someone that has not been doing much exercise.
2. A Taiji body is someone had practiced Taiji diligently for many years and build up muscle tone. 

Edited September 22 by ChiDragon

[FluffyGuardian]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

Ok, I see what you meant. The video you had shown is called "fast Taiji" that can be performed at a higher level with any style of Taiji. Yes, I had seen a higher level student performed in my Yang style class when I was a beginner. BTW The practice was not from scratch. The ability of the performer has to be practiced for years to build up the body to do so. Any performer with this kind of ability, I would like to refer that the performer is being possessed a Taiji body.

Well, a few things to note here. 

First of all, the video I posted showcases Er Lu, the second form of Chen Family Taijiquan. 

Yang Family mainly inherited Chen's Yi Lu, the first form. They didn't inherit the second form. 

Er Lu is not simply a "fast" version of the first form. While there is some overlap such as Single Whip, there are also a lot of sequences that not found in the first form, and by extension, not found in Yang style. 

Sure, there are some Yang and Wu Styles that claims to have "Fast Forms". Although, whatever power they generate generally becomes rather localized in the arms or legs. It becomes very flicky, like flicking a hand or flicking an arm or flicking a leg. There is a lack of weight/mass/heaviness behind their power.

 

Additionally, Gongfu Jia has way more diversity of expressions of power. For example, vertical rising power at 3:25 (this Jin is more in a grappling context):
 

 

Quote

So, you are saying that you were starting with Chen Yu Gongfu Jia. You are performing the practice at the speed as shown in the video to begin with?

 

Oh, definitely not. The video I linked was the second form. We have a first form too, Yi Lu, which is generally slower and more stereotypical of conventional Tai Chi. And that is the foundation for Er Lu. Yi Lu has to be learned first. 

Yi Lu is considered a "Yin" Set for developing the internal side and the foundation. Er Lu is considered a "Yang" set for expressing that internal side into something more outward and hard. It is "using softness to create hardness" so to speak. 

Generally, Yi Lu has a higher percentage of softer methods, yielding, manipulation, and attaching. It has some striking, but that is like the white dot in the Yin symbol. 

Er Lu has a higher percentage of harder methods, striking methods, and non-attachment. It has some of the softer methods too, but that is like the black dot in the Yang symbol. 

 

Edited September 22 by FluffyGuardian

[Gerard]

ZZ is for children and the elderly. Not good enough for ungrounded modern day adults especially those:

 

1. From an academic background

2. Born in Wood and Fire years and especially the Year of the Horse.

 

Recommended work for grounding and building a solid foundation and  strong legs are as follows:

 

1. Five Stances Kung Fu

2. Asian squat 

3. Low basin walking exercises 

 

[ChiDragon]

9 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said:

Yang Family mainly inherited Chen's Yi Lu, the first form. They didn't inherit the second form. 

Yi Lu is considered a "Yin" Set for developing the internal side and the foundation. Er Lu is considered a "Yang" set for expressing that internal side into something more outward and hard. It is "using softness to create hardness" so to speak.

You know? Even though, the Yang style was originally learned from the Chen family, but they are completely different. Thus the Yang style Taiji does not resemble the Chan Style at all.

I had learned the Yang style 108 form to begin with. I was doing the movements very slow with the arms and legs bend most of the time. Later, I had learned why the limbs were bent doing practice. It was because it make the legs stronger despite to the soreness and pain in the legs for the first three months. After that, it made it easier to stabilize the body. It also helps to make the limbs move back and forth, quicker, in returning back to the opposite direction. Besides, after years of diligent practice, it gives me the ability and flexibility to speed up Fajin(發勁) with greater force. BTW The amount of Jin is controllable at well. In other words, the practitioner can push the opponent to any distance as desired.

Yes, I agree with the last paragraph and the rest. It was the yin/yang concept derived from Yijing!

Edited September 23 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

2 hours ago, Gerard said:

ZZ is for children and the elderly. Not good enough for ungrounded modern day adults especially those:

 

1. From an academic background

2. Born in Wood and Fire years and especially the Year of the Horse.

Ha ha! Are you sure about that? However, I will not argue about that. Peace!

[FluffyGuardian]

4 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

You know? Even though, the Yang style was originally learned from the Chen family, but they are completely different. Thus the Yang style Taiji does not resemble the Chan Style at all.

I had learned the Yang style 108 form to begin with. I was doing the movements very slow with the arms and legs bend most of the time. Later, I had learned why the limbs were bent doing practice. It was because it make the legs stronger despite to the soreness and pain in the legs for the first three months. After that, it made it easier to stabilize the body. It also helps to make the limbs move back and forth, quicker, in returning back to the opposite direction. Besides, after years of diligent practice, it gives me the ability and flexibility to speed up Fajin(發勁) with greater force. BTW The amount of Jin is controllable at well. In other words, the practitioner can push the opponent to any distance as desired.

Yes, I agree with the last paragraph and the rest. It was the yin/yang concept derived from Yijing!

 

Earlier you said you had a hard time in agreeing with me in how Taiji can be different.

But now, you seem very convinced that Taiji can be "completely different", which I agree with.

I feel like Yang style's notion of Fa Jin, at least in modern times, is an outlier in Chinese martial arts. If one were to look up Fa Jin for Yang Style, it pretty much boils down to pushing the opponent away.

While pushing is a valid application found in the form, it's very strange that this is their signature move.

It's very ironic when practitioners espouse the principle of "Stick and Follow," yet their primary application is effectively "Unstick and Repel." By pushing the opponent away, they terminate the engagement and forfeit the opportunity to practice the very skills of sticking, linking, and following. They have effectively ended their "sentence" after a single word.

From a strategic standpoint, simply pushing an opponent away is not a problem-solving move. The purpose of self-defense is to neutralize a threat. A pushed opponent remains standing, unharmed, and free to re-engage. The fight is not over; it has merely been paused. What if they are skilled and can recover their balance instantly? What if they know how to breakfall?

There's an anecdote of a famous Yang teacher who sparred with a Judo guy who said: "The man could push, I’ll give him that. I must have gone twenty feet back . . . but I had a hold of his jacket as I went and I rolled over in a tomoenage and choked him out."



The funny thing is that when people hear this story, they celebrate the Tai Chi guy for being able to push someone far away, completely ignoring the part that the push was used against the Tai Chi guy because he was being held onto. So all that pushing power got converted into the Judo's pulling power.

In contrast, a lot of the applications I am familiar with are designed specifically to prevent a safe breakfall, ensuring the opponent remains under your control even after crashing into the ground. This requires sustained contact, allowing you to transition immediately to other methods of torture, such as twisting the fallen opponent into a pretzel.

Daito-Ryu Aiki-jujutsu, the predecessor of Aikido, has the same philosophy:

In contrast, if we look at Aikido, they do have a good number of applications where they allow the opponent to just roll to safety in the far distance. 

 

Both Daito-Ryu and what I practice have the mentality of: "I want you crushed right next to my feet where I can continue to "stick and follow". 

[Master Logray]

2 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said:

 

Earlier you said you had a hard time in agreeing with me in how Taiji can be different.

But now, you seem very convinced that Taiji can be "completely different", which I agree with.

I feel like Yang style's notion of Fa Jin, at least in modern times, is an outlier in Chinese martial arts. If one were to look up Fa Jin for Yang Style, it pretty much boils down to pushing the opponent away.

While pushing is a valid application found in the form, it's very strange that this is their signature move.

It's very ironic when practitioners espouse the principle of "Stick and Follow," yet their primary application is effectively "Unstick and Repel." By pushing the opponent away, they terminate the engagement and forfeit the opportunity to practice the very skills of sticking, linking, and following. They have effectively ended their "sentence" after a single word.

From a strategic standpoint, simply pushing an opponent away is not a problem-solving move. The purpose of self-defense is to neutralize a threat. A pushed opponent remains standing, unharmed, and free to re-engage. The fight is not over; it has merely been paused. What if they are skilled and can recover their balance instantly? What if they know how to breakfall?

There's an anecdote of a famous Yang teacher who sparred with a Judo guy who said: "The man could push, I’ll give him that. I must have gone twenty feet back . . . but I had a hold of his jacket as I went and I rolled over in a tomoenage and choked him out."



The funny thing is that when people hear this story, they celebrate the Tai Chi guy for being able to push someone far away, completely ignoring the part that the push was used against the Tai Chi guy because he was being held onto. So all that pushing power got converted into the Judo's pulling power.

In contrast, a lot of the applications I am familiar with are designed specifically to prevent a safe breakfall, ensuring the opponent remains under your control even after crashing into the ground. This requires sustained contact, allowing you to transition immediately to other methods of torture, such as twisting the fallen opponent into a pretzel.

Daito-Ryu Aiki-jujutsu, the predecessor of Aikido, has the same philosophy:

In contrast, if we look at Aikido, they do have a good number of applications where they allow the opponent to just roll to safety in the far distance. 

 

Both Daito-Ryu and what I practice have the mentality of: "I want you crushed right next to my feet where I can continue to "stick and follow". 

 

I read that an US marine said, Taichi cannot deal with a determined opponent.  He roughly reflected your opinion - what to do after unbalance an opponent and throw him to the ground.   In Chinese Kung Fu as in worldwide fighting systems, there are many dirty tricks.   These are not shown during fake demonstrations or trainings like push hands, or not allowed during matches.  In Chinese language, no one really calls it martial arts (the term does exist), but normally refer to as martial techniques, techniques only.

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

martial arts

The general term for martial arts in Chinese is 武術(Wu shu) which is a more eloquent. As opposed to Kung Fu, it is more like a coarse term so to speak. 

[ChiDragon]

4 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said:

Earlier you said you had a hard time in agreeing with me in how Taiji can be different.

But now, you seem very convinced that Taiji can be "completely different", which I agree with.

 

What I meant by practicing Taiji, even though the moves or gestures are different in styles, it has the same physical and biological effect on the human body. In other words, all the Taiji styles may move differently, but the function of the body behaves the same. It makes no difference.

[ChiDragon]

4 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said:

I feel like Yang style's notion of Fa Jin, at least in modern times, is an outlier in Chinese martial arts. If one were to look up Fa Jin for Yang Style, it pretty much boils down to pushing the opponent away.

While pushing is a valid application found in the form, it's very strange that this is their signature move.

I wouldn't jump to a hasty conclusion about pushing hands in Taiji was because of the term "pushing hands". It is the finest art to be accomplished in the realm of Taiji. It determines the skill level of a competent practitioner. One might say it is the highest level of skill in Taiji that one wants to achieve.

 

We could have a big discussion about that later. I have to go teach a Taiji class now. Happy practice!

[FluffyGuardian]

4 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

I wouldn't jump to a hasty conclusion about pushing hands in Taiji was because of the term "pushing hands". It is the finest art to be accomplished in the realm of Taiji. It determines the skill level of a competent practitioner. One might say it is the highest level of skill in Taiji that one wants to achieve.

 

We could have a big discussion about that later. I have to go teach a Taiji class now. Happy practice!

 

Huh? I wasn't referring to "Pushing Hands" (Tuishou) per se. I am referring to the large data points as shown on demonstration videos on social media. That isn't a hasty conclusion; that's just raw data. 

Traditionally, Tuishou is not the sum-total of Taijiquan. Taijiquan originally had Sanshou as well. 

Tuishou is effectively a study of sustained physical contact. In contrast, Sanshou is the study of broken-contact (like Boxing/Kickboxing are essentially a Sanshou paradigm).

The thing with martial arts is that applications tend to resemble each other when they originate from a similar time and place. Northern Chinese martial arts tend to have applications that resemble other Northern Chinese martial arts. 

There are a lot of overlap in applications between traditional Taijiquan and other Northern martial arts because they are historically from similar regions. When I look at the old dudes doing Northern Praying Mantis, Baguazhang, or Bajiquan, I can go: "Oh! Hey! That is close to our application from this sequence. Oh hey! We would do it that way as well!"

But conversely, the lack of those applications being present is also a sign of broken lineage because everyone else in the same region has those usages, which makes the one that doesn't the outlier. 

So take Bajiquan for instance, an "External" Northern martial art. They have "Single Whip", "White Crane Spreads Wings", and "Cloud Hands". Well hey... Taijiquan have sequences with those exact names. That's a sign of there being old common roots in these martial arts. 

 

[Gerard]

21 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Ha ha! Are you sure about that? However, I will not argue about that. Peace!

Yes I'm.  Ask He Jinghan. Ten years practising Yang TJQ, his practise stalled. He took up BGZ (and all the leg work necessary to develop a strong foundation and a BGZ body), as a result his TJQ improved significantly.

 

He also practices TJQ.

 

I reckon Xingyi is great for TJQ.

 

People often forget TJQ is kung fu, which means hard work. Anything that develops and makes the legs strong will be good for TJQ.

 

Doing TJQ like most people do is a joke. Good for nothing. 

 

 

[FluffyGuardian]

7 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

People often forget TJQ is kung fu, which means hard work. Anything that develops and makes the legs strong will be good for TJQ.

 

Doing TJQ like most people do is a joke. Good for nothing. 

 

 

 

There has been a notable trend of Taijiquan progressively having higher and narrower stances. 

Chen is known for low, wide stance. 

Old-school Yang had them as well, but most of today's Yang got shorter and higher.

Wu Style got even higher and shorter than Yang.

Wu (Hao) arguably got even higher and shorter than Wu Style.

This is how Yang Chengfu stood. How they stand is essentially the same as Chen Style:



But nowadays, Yang doesn't usually go this low and wide anymore. 

 

And this is apparently Wu (Hao) Style's Lan Zha Yi:

 

Even Wing Chun practitioners have wider, lower stances than that.

The evolution of the stance, looking at Single Whip, higher and narrower as the style got newer and newer:

[Master Logray]

3 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said:

 

There has been a notable trend of Taijiquan progressively having higher and narrower stances. 

Chen is known for low, wide stance. 

Old-school Yang had them as well, but most of today's Yang got shorter and higher.

Wu Style got even higher and shorter than Yang.

Wu (Hao) arguably got even higher and shorter than Wu Style.

This is how Yang Chengfu stood. How they stand is essentially the same as Chen Style:
 

 

Both ways.   TC, as you say, getting higher.  It all started mainly for the imperial court students that grand master Yang taught in Peking.  They could not be exhausted too much.   Later Wu Style was famous for its development of "inch Jing" which means exert a sizable force with very short pull back before the strike.   They didn't need to go very low to bounce back.

 

But nowadays China TC teachers and athletes are going very low, as much as look like mopping the floor.   It is because they employ Olympic gymnastic athletes to teach.  They can go very low and look impressive.  In contrast, the traditional martial people would not and cannot go that low even for training mode.   In real life application, the combatant must not go low, it reduces flexibility and response time. An intention to lower the CG is sufficient.

 

 

[ChiDragon]

12 hours ago, Gerard said:

People often forget TJQ is kung fu, which means hard work. Anything that develops and makes the legs strong will be good for TJQ.

 

Doing TJQ like most people do is a joke. Good for nothing. 

In general, Taiji is a form kung fu by definition. However people like to treated it as a separate art. It is because Taiji is so unique from other martial arts. Kung fu are too broad of a description in martial arts. For example, Shaolin kung fu styles are doing jumping and flapping, hitting hard objects, bump the head against the wall, and etc. You name it. Hence Taiji practitioners wants to isolate themselves from kung fu. 

"Doing TJQ like most people do is a joke. Good for nothing. " It is because they didn't how to practice it and neglected the purpose of the why they are really doing the moves. I know some people want to practice the moves with an intention for fighting. They thought by learning the moves for the combat purposes can to take over the world. However, if they didn't know how to do it properly for years, but still did not accomplish what the system offers. Yes, that would be a joke, a big joke, and good for nothing!

[ChiDragon]

7 hours ago, FluffyGuardian said:

There has been a notable trend of Taijiquan progressively having higher and narrower stances. 

Chen is known for low, wide stance. 

Old-school Yang had them as well, but most of today's Yang got shorter and higher.

Wu Style got even higher and shorter than Yang.

Wu (Hao) arguably got even higher and shorter than Wu Style.

I don't think it is a good idea to make a generation statement about the Taiji stances. Most of the time, Taiji practitioners always stand at a bow stand with the body weight distributed 30 to 40% on the front leg and 60 to 70% in the rear leg. The width between the legs are very important, it cannot be too wide or too narrow. The Taiji masters have aware of the distance between the legs in the stance. If it the too narrow, then, the body is not too stable. Especially, in push hands, the opponent will take advantage of that and get you off balance with fajin. In the other hand, if the width of the stance is too wide, then, it will put oneself in a locked position. It will make it very difficult to lift either legs and standing like a dead duck. Under this condition, it was called 雙重(double weight). It implies that the body weights are equally distributed on both legs.

The bow stand was practiced most common, it is because both legs can be moved freely at anytime. At this position the legs can moved back and forth very freely.

PS Based on the double weight theory, I would conclude that the emphasis should be placed on the width of the stance, not on the height.

Edited September 24 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

Later Wu Style was famous for its development of "inch Jing" which means exert a sizable force with very short pull back before the strike.   They didn't need to go very low to bounce back.

I believe that the idea of  寸勁(inch jin) was originated from the practice of Fajin in Taiji. The idea of "inch jin" was to execute an explosive force one inch away from the opponent without any pull back. So, the opponent will not see what the unexpected move that was coming. Bruce Lee was the expert on the practice.

[EFreethought]

On 9/22/2025 at 4:00 PM, FluffyGuardian said:

 

Well... here is Chen Zhaokui's one and only son, Chen Yu doing a section of Er Lu (the second form of Gongfu Frame): 

 

How many Tai Chi forms are there? I thought there was just one that different styles do differently.