Sign in to follow this  
心神 ~

The Serpent Which Came Forth

Recommended Posts

In reference to the Pyramid Texts - Utterance 237/238 (in the tomb of Unas):
 

Quote

"The serpent which came forth from the earth has risen; the flame which came forth from Nun is fallen."

 

This seems to be an inversion of the "natural" cosmic order in which the serpent of chaos succeeds and prevents Ra's dawn flame, the defeat of light reborn.

 

In earlier, goddess-centered myths, the serpent is associated with water, earth, fertility as an emblem of life’s cyclical, regenerative force: continuity, not chaos. But in patriarchal solar theologies (Ra, later Greek Apollo), the serpent shifts toward an adversary role. It becomes the “dark, feminine, watery” threat that must be subdued by the sun, the spear, the order of the sky.

 

So if identified with the divine feminine, the serpent's rising could be an older current surfacing, the submerged feminine chaos reclaiming primacy, and the dethroning of a more rigid solar order. To call its rise lamentable assumes the solar order is the unquestioned good. To call it exalted assumes that overturning order is inherently liberatory. The fact that both the serpent and the flame arise from the watery depths of Nun strikes me as interesting. Sibling energy, both sourced from the same cosmic womb.

 

What is your personal view of the serpent, @Nungali? How do you read this process? Is your version meant to be an inversion of the original text? Or a reinterpretation? Is what's described an act of destruction or correction? A rebalancing? A release of repression and subconscious energy? Deep renewal through reversal? Is this a lament for lost light, an exaltation of the goddess's return, an overall celebration of the overturning of cosmic order?

 

What was the original purpose of the text? Was it a protective spell? A warning in it's own historical context? Was the message intended for the people or for the serpent? I notice in these translations, the serpent comes from the earth and the light comes from the water depths. 

 

Quote

“The cobra that came from the earth has fallen, the fire that came from Nu has fallen. Fall down, crawl away!”
(James P. Allen (2005), Internet Archive)

 

Quote

“The serpent which came forth from the earth is fallen; the flame which came forth from Nun is fallen. Fall; glide away.”
(S. A. B. Mercer (1952), Internet Archive)

 

Quote

“The cobra that came from the earth has fallen; the fire that came from Nu has fallen. Fall down, crawl away!”).
(R. O. Faulkner (1969), Brill)

 

Quote

“Fall, serpent that came forth from the Earth! Fall, flame that came forth from Nun! Fall down! Crawl away!”
(Sofiatopia)

 

 

Edit: Water Above Fire was an interesting thread to visit after posting this.

 

 

Edited by 心神 ~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a more 'traditional' view ( ie. Egyptian )  tag Apech . 

 

Regarding what you asked about my personal view :

 

' The serpent which came forth from the earth has risen; the flame which came forth from Nun is fallen. ' 

 

'' How do you read this process? Is your version meant to be an inversion of the original text?  ( yes, in a way ) Or a reinterpretation?  (yes )  Is what's described an act of destruction or correction?  ( a reinterpretation of it in light of indigenous teachings ) A rebalancing? ( I hope so ... who the heck knows what those far ancient Egyptians  really thought ... again ask Apech )  )  A release of repression and subconscious energy? Deep renewal through reversal? Is this a lament for lost light,  ( no )   an exaltation of the goddess's return,  ( exaltation of her being ever present )  an overall celebration of the overturning of cosmic order? ( a celebration of cosmic order ). 

 

The earth serpent is Ungud , the 'Rainbow Serpent '  creator spirit .  It 'rose'  , 'looked up', became receptive ,  'desired '  .  The 'flame' is life  but in this story is water  ( the water of life )  it comes from  Nun / Nuit / night sky, stars and space ; Wallenganda , the black snake ( the dark part winding through the river in the  Milky Way ) the  river in the night sky ; the stars either side being the campfires of Wallenganda's children camped along the river banks . 

 

Ungud  reflects on his barrenness  and admires Wallenganda . Wallenganda responds by spitting some of her water down onto Ungud , he takes it underground and 'The Dreamtime'  starts . . .  life comes forth .  ( I have written the myth out a lot fuller many times here ... if the search engine works for you ) .

 

of course, this way pre-dates the Egyptian versions   .... one of their stories in the Hermopolitan creation cycle is two frogs  ( and also  male and female pairs of frogs and snakes  - which brings to mind  marriage laws requiring  people to only pair with a different animal totem - moiety . ) 

 

Some think it signifies  water and  life coming to a barren earth via an ice comet  strike .  It may also represent a memory of moving out of the time of 'The Great Drought'  ( the end of the Ice Age  ....  cold temps ,  water turns to ice and less rain  - desert ,  warm temps  ice melts, more rain - fertility .

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, 心神 ~ said:

In reference to the Pyramid Texts - Utterance 237/238 (in the tomb of Unas):
 

 

This seems to be an inversion of the "natural" cosmic order in which the serpent of chaos succeeds and prevents Ra's dawn flame, the defeat of light reborn.

 

In earlier, goddess-centered myths, the serpent is associated with water, earth, fertility as an emblem of life’s cyclical, regenerative force: continuity, not chaos. But in patriarchal solar theologies (Ra, later Greek Apollo), the serpent shifts toward an adversary role. It becomes the “dark, feminine, watery” threat that must be subdued by the sun, the spear, the order of the sky.

 

So if identified with the divine feminine, the serpent's rising could be an older current surfacing, the submerged feminine chaos reclaiming primacy, and the dethroning of a more rigid solar order. To call its rise lamentable assumes the solar order is the unquestioned good. To call it exalted assumes that overturning order is inherently liberatory. The fact that both the serpent and the flame arise from the watery depths of Nun strikes me as interesting. Sibling energy, both sourced from the same cosmic womb.

 

What is your personal view of the serpent, @Nungali? How do you read this process? Is your version meant to be an inversion of the original text? Or a reinterpretation? Is what's described an act of destruction or correction? A rebalancing? A release of repression and subconscious energy? Deep renewal through reversal? Is this a lament for lost light, an exaltation of the goddess's return, an overall celebration of the overturning of cosmic order?

 

What was the original purpose of the text? Was it a protective spell? A warning in it's own historical context? Was the message intended for the people or for the serpent? I notice in these translations, the serpent comes from the earth and the light comes from the water depths. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Water Above Fire was an interesting thread to visit after posting this.

 

 

 

Hello I can't help but answer this since the Pyramid Texts of Unas are something of a specialist subject for me (or were when I was studying Egypt).

 

@Nungali has for some reason changed the quote - to give a slightly different meaning as indicated in the translations you quote.  So his meaning is specific to him (no less valid though).

 

I checked Sethe's original transcription for what is called Utterance 233 (lines 237/8) just to see what they were saying.  Old Kingdom Egyptian is like a no frills version and so there is very little context or explanation in the text.  But you can gain some context etc. by seeing where these texts were placed in the pyramid structure.  In this case they are on the West gable of the sarcophagus chamber - and are part of a series of 'spells' against inimical beings.  That is 'entities' or forces which act against the the process being undertaken in the pyramid (which is one of transformation and 'rebirth' as a spiritual being called an 'akh'.)  The words are intended to be spoken to ward off these negative forces.  These types of spells occur twice in the Pyramid once here on the West gable above the sarcophagus and once on the East wall of the akhet chamber (that is on the opposite end of the pyramid chambers so they reflect each other).  So there are two instances in the process which takes place in the pyramid where negative forces have to be warded off.

 

Translated without interpretation the text says:

 

To be spoken:  Falls down the serpent from the earth, Falls down the flame from the Nun (primeval waters), Fall down, slither away.

 

We have to break this down a bit to see what they were saying.  First as I said it is a spell to be spoken out loud and its purpose is to ward off a negative force.  One of the ways the Egyptians denoted negative forces was by a state of inversion.  So there is a right order for things (ma'at) and there is its invert which is negative/evil.  So the first two lines describe a negative state which has arisen.  That is the serpent has fallen and the flame has fallen.  This describes a negative state.  Why because serpents like the uraeus (Egypt. Iaret ) literally means 'risen up one' and obviously also flames rise, they don't fall.  I think also that the word flame or fire which has the determinative of a torch is referring to light rather than heat.  So it is referencing light = awareness which has fallen back into the primeval waters which are dark (kek).  

 

So if you imagine that the right (ma'at) state of things would be a risen serpent (like the cobra on the brow of the king) and light emerging from darkness.  But because of the interference of inimical beings/forces the opposite has happened and this needs to be addressed.  The way this is done is to turn back the negative force onto itself.  Like saying 'you made these things fall, now you fall!'.  This symmetry is very Egyptian.

 

So the last part of the spell is saying to the negative being 'You fall! and slither away!' (or you fall slitherer)

 

In fact the very last word 'sbn' (slither) gives us a clue to which category of beings is being addressed - it is that of the Sebau fiends ... or Slithering beings.  This refers to forces of dissolution or perhaps wasteful energy loss.  Like for instance lustful thoughts and the like which drain energy.

 

So my rather free translation would be:

 

"You who made the earth serpent fall, who made the flame from Nun fall; You fall and slither away!!!"

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What would be cool here is if there were crossover between egypt and india.

 

Enough so that the serpent who resides at the base of the spine in hinduism were comparable with egypts own rising serpent. Hindus version of this may also be associated with rising fire, if I remember right.

 

Similar to how Moses descends Mount Sinai to find israelites engaging in cow idol worship (golden calf) not so dissimilar to hindu cow worship.

Edited by Sanity Check
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

What would be cool here is if there were crossover between egypt and india.

 

There is .  But 'India' is a more recent development  -   check Egypt's trade with Harrapa  ( Indus Valley ) . 

 

 

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Enough so that the serpent who resides at the base of the spine in hinduism were comparable with egypts own rising serpent. Hindus version of this may also be associated with rising fire, if I remember right.

 

That is a more modern association , some claim all sorts of things  about ancient Egyptian lore  .... its mostly obscure  and ,as Apech pointed out, interpretation relies heavily on context  and  context takes time to study . 

 

A rearing or rising snake  is a common observation and analogy in many cultures .

 

 

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Similar to how Moses descends Mount Sinai to find israelites engaging in cow idol worship (golden calf) not so dissimilar to hindu cow worship.

 

And not so dissimilar to any ancient people that did herding . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

And not so dissimilar to any ancient people that did herding . 

 

 

 

Did they develop agriculture independent of each other.

 

Or did they cooperate and share knowledge.

 

If they shared knowledge, perhaps they shared info on other things as well.

 

Its just basic science.

Edited by Sanity Check

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this