No, you don't have to build a Dantian

[stirling]

49 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

Here's a quote from Hakuin. I knew I remembered it from somewhere 

 

Truly demonstrates that Vajrayana, Zen, and Daoism are all deeply intertwined. 

[forestofclarity]

3 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

What is the purpose of hara development or building a dantien?  I suspect that those who embrace these practices are aiming at something different from realization or awakening as it´s thought of in most Buddhist contexts.

 

There are several benefits: increased physical health, less need for food/sleep, mental calmness, less clinging, increased meditative stability, etc. It is not a matter of the dan tian per se but a healthy subtle energy system, of which the LDT is a part. However, in appears to me that if one cultivates wisdom, then the subtle body develops spontaneously. Some Buddhist schools are more direct or indirect depending. 

[yugenphoenix]

On 9/10/2025 at 2:54 PM, Forestgreen said:

 

 

For me, the sensation of (almost) physical movement inside, like tissues being pushed aside by an object, didn't come until after I had worked with the methods that supposedly build a physical dantian. 

 

 

"like tissues being pushed aside by an object" yes! but its struggle to express it with clarity and eloquence.

What "methods that supposedly build a physical dantian" did you use? 

[yugenphoenix]

On 9/10/2025 at 5:09 PM, Lairg said:

It may be better to consider a dantian as an energy vortex.

 

 

 

This my friend! Exactly it! Nothing to build, pack, etc. you are refining the engine to burn at a monumentally enlarged and changed level that transcends the finite. It's Creation within. Exhaustless, indefatigable, processor/process. 

[yugenphoenix]

9 hours ago, stirling said:

 

Who (or perhaps just where), if you are comfortable sharing?

 

Just finished that one! Yes, I saw that. I guess I am speaking more to how widespread such teachings are. I never encountered them in over 10 years in Zen until last year, and then only anecdotal, and this is in doing retreats at a number of well-known Zen retreat centers. 

 

Meido's book is a whole other topic. A surprising amount of Vajrayana cross-over in that book, practice-wise. 

Just added this book to my que! This sounds amazing from both your comments and the reviews on the Shambhala website! Especially intrigued by the "surprising amount of Vajrayana cross-over"

 

Seems like an amazing book and a real missing link many of us could have used much earlier...but things do come when they do.  "Wherever you go there you are."  Buckaroo Banzai 

 

Thank you for the pointing my friends 

Edited 10 hours ago by yugenphoenix

[yugenphoenix]

7 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

What is the purpose of hara development or building a dantien?  I suspect that those who embrace these practices are aiming at something different from realization or awakening as it´s thought of in most Buddhist contexts.

 

A related question: Is it easier to awaken in a healthy body?

Yes, it would lack the purity of what is thought of as perhaps a more "pure emptiness" intent I agree, but I have never minded "crossing streams" and finding my own way in the sticks 

 

Absolutely it is easier for a higher current to run in a better wired system!

[ChiDragon]

11 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

That leads to questions. Which sensation is the real ldt?

And was it created or developed? 

If you can feel your breath is deep down to the abdomen, not in the chest, then that is your sensation of chi in the LDT. ONE must stick with the definition that the abdomen is the LDT.

[ChiDragon]

11 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

What if the fallacy is to equal lower abdomen with ldt?

It is not a fallacy, the question is illogical! There are many documents to support that the lower abdomen is the LDT.

[Forestgreen]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

If you can feel your breath is deep down to the abdomen, not in the chest, then that is your sensation of chi in the LDT.

No

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

ONE must stick with the definition that the abdomen is the LDT.

No. Why?

[Forestgreen]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

It is not a fallacy, the question is illogical! There are many documents to support that the lower abdomen is the LDT.

And many that goes with option no 2, which begets the question.

 

Maybe the difference between our understandings is that you focus on taiji (?) and has been introduced to one way of doing things, while I train a method that sooner or later introduces two or more ways of doing a thing or accomplish a goal. 

 

Life (and discussions) seems easier when there is just one option, but practice is easier when there are more expedient means. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Forestgreen
Added stuff.

[Forestgreen]

3 hours ago, yugenphoenix said:

 

What "methods that supposedly build a physical dantian" did you use? 

Some are similar to what Damo Mitchell teaches, these are  public and easy to find.

Some are similar to what Rudi reaches, it would be rude of me to discuss them here. 

And some are mudra based. The mudras are publicly available,  but lacking in description. 

[yugenphoenix]

6 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Some are similar to what Damo Mitchell teaches, these are  public and easy to find.

Some are similar to what Rudi reaches, it would be rude of me to discuss them here. 

And some are mudra based. The mudras are publicly available,  but lacking in description. 

Yes I have found mudras to be powerful and very helpful at times.

 

Who is Rudi? 🙂