No, you don't have to build a Dantian

[stirling]

49 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

Here's a quote from Hakuin. I knew I remembered it from somewhere 

 

Truly demonstrates that Vajrayana, Zen, and Daoism are all deeply intertwined. 

[forestofclarity]

3 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

What is the purpose of hara development or building a dantien?  I suspect that those who embrace these practices are aiming at something different from realization or awakening as it´s thought of in most Buddhist contexts.

 

There are several benefits: increased physical health, less need for food/sleep, mental calmness, less clinging, increased meditative stability, etc. It is not a matter of the dan tian per se but a healthy subtle energy system, of which the LDT is a part. However, in appears to me that if one cultivates wisdom, then the subtle body develops spontaneously. Some Buddhist schools are more direct or indirect depending. 

[yugenphoenix]

On 9/10/2025 at 2:54 PM, Forestgreen said:

 

 

For me, the sensation of (almost) physical movement inside, like tissues being pushed aside by an object, didn't come until after I had worked with the methods that supposedly build a physical dantian. 

 

 

"like tissues being pushed aside by an object" yes! but its struggle to express it with clarity and eloquence.

What "methods that supposedly build a physical dantian" did you use? 

[yugenphoenix]

On 9/10/2025 at 5:09 PM, Lairg said:

It may be better to consider a dantian as an energy vortex.

 

 

 

This my friend! Exactly it! Nothing to build, pack, etc. you are refining the engine to burn at a monumentally enlarged and changed level that transcends the finite. It's Creation within. Exhaustless, indefatigable, processor/process. 

[yugenphoenix]

9 hours ago, stirling said:

 

Who (or perhaps just where), if you are comfortable sharing?

 

Just finished that one! Yes, I saw that. I guess I am speaking more to how widespread such teachings are. I never encountered them in over 10 years in Zen until last year, and then only anecdotal, and this is in doing retreats at a number of well-known Zen retreat centers. 

 

Meido's book is a whole other topic. A surprising amount of Vajrayana cross-over in that book, practice-wise. 

Just added this book to my que! This sounds amazing from both your comments and the reviews on the Shambhala website! Especially intrigued by the "surprising amount of Vajrayana cross-over"

 

Seems like an amazing book and a real missing link many of us could have used much earlier...but things do come when they do.  "Wherever you go there you are."  Buckaroo Banzai 

 

Thank you for the pointing my friends 

Edited 17 hours ago by yugenphoenix

[yugenphoenix]

7 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

What is the purpose of hara development or building a dantien?  I suspect that those who embrace these practices are aiming at something different from realization or awakening as it´s thought of in most Buddhist contexts.

 

A related question: Is it easier to awaken in a healthy body?

Yes, it would lack the purity of what is thought of as perhaps a more "pure emptiness" intent I agree, but I have never minded "crossing streams" and finding my own way in the sticks 

 

Absolutely it is easier for a higher current to run in a better wired system!

[ChiDragon]

11 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

That leads to questions. Which sensation is the real ldt?

And was it created or developed? 

If you can feel your breath is deep down to the abdomen, not in the chest, then that is your sensation of chi in the LDT. ONE must stick with the definition that the abdomen is the LDT.

[ChiDragon]

11 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

What if the fallacy is to equal lower abdomen with ldt?

It is not a fallacy, the question is illogical! There are many documents to support that the lower abdomen is the LDT.

[Forestgreen]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

If you can feel your breath is deep down to the abdomen, not in the chest, then that is your sensation of chi in the LDT.

No

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

ONE must stick with the definition that the abdomen is the LDT.

No. Why?

[Forestgreen]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

It is not a fallacy, the question is illogical! There are many documents to support that the lower abdomen is the LDT.

And many that goes with option no 2, which begets the question.

 

Maybe the difference between our understandings is that you focus on taiji (?) and has been introduced to one way of doing things, while I train a method that sooner or later introduces two or more ways of doing a thing or accomplish a goal. 

 

Life (and discussions) seems easier when there is just one option, but practice is easier when there are more expedient means. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Forestgreen
Added stuff.

[Forestgreen]

3 hours ago, yugenphoenix said:

 

What "methods that supposedly build a physical dantian" did you use? 

Some are similar to what Damo Mitchell teaches, these are  public and easy to find.

Some are similar to what Rudi reaches, it would be rude of me to discuss them here. 

And some are mudra based. The mudras are publicly available,  but lacking in description. 

[yugenphoenix]

6 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Some are similar to what Damo Mitchell teaches, these are  public and easy to find.

Some are similar to what Rudi reaches, it would be rude of me to discuss them here. 

And some are mudra based. The mudras are publicly available,  but lacking in description. 

Yes I have found mudras to be powerful and very helpful at times.

 

Who is Rudi? 🙂

[damdao]

3 hours ago, yugenphoenix said:

Yes I have found mudras to be powerful and very helpful at times.

 

Who is Rudi? 🙂

https://authenticneigong.com

You can find threads in General Discussion, I think.

Very good teaching and methods, highly recommendable if you want to know how to build the dantian and do faqi.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 hours ago, damdao said:

https://authenticneigong.com

You can find threads in General Discussion, I think.

Very good teaching and methods, highly recommendable if you want to know how to build the dantian and do faqi.

Technically it would not be “building” the lower dantian but reactivating the existing lower dantian to be able to store qi.

 

What we are taught is that everyone has an active lower dantian from birth, but for some reason it stops being active after puberty. So the first goal in neigong would be to make it active to be able to store qi again. 

Edited 1 hour ago by -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-

[forestofclarity]

2 hours ago, damdao said:

https://authenticneigong.com

You can find threads in General Discussion, I think.

Very good teaching and methods, highly recommendable if you want to know how to build the dantian and do faqi.

 

Does any of this ever involve large amounts of cash for treatments, activation of dan tian, etc.? I remember the earlier qi emission craze on TDB, and it usually involved very large sums of cash at some point. 

[jgd]

7 minutes ago, forestofclarity said:

 

Does any of this ever involve large amounts of cash for treatments, activation of dan tian, etc.? I remember the earlier qi emission craze on TDB, and it usually involved very large sums of cash at some point. 

 

 sadly yes. Rudi is really nice but the medical trips are several thousands of $

[ChiDragon]

14 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

15 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

If you can feel your breath is deep down to the abdomen, not in the chest, then that is your sensation of chi in the LDT.

No

If one can breathe down to the abdomen, LDT, one should feel the body is full of energy. As opposed to those only who can breathe down to the chest, one will know the difference in the amount of energy that can be felt by the body. This can, only if, one has sunken chi into the abdomen. All the Chinese native martial artists knew this concept with the phase known as "氣沉丹田(sink chi into dantian)".

[Forestgreen]

I know, in your opinion it all boils down to abdominal breathing, and next comes oxygen levels. During the last decade, any number of people has written that your view is limited and not in line with what Chinese native qigong, neigong and neidan teachers teach.

 

Cool though that you hold on to your view.  I must admit that there are several aspects of these arts that my view differs considerable from where I was ten years ago.

[ChiDragon]

14 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Quote

ONE must stick with the definition that the abdomen is the LDT.

No. Why?

Why not? The reason you say no. Perhaps you do not have the right concept about the lower dantian. Do you know why it was called the LOWER dantian. Well it is because it located in the lower part of the torso. The head is the upper dantian, the chest the middle dantian, and the abdomen is the lower dantian. You wouldn't call the head as the LDT, would you? Peace!