What is money?

[Surya]

4 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

On the path i follow, it is an obligation to give tzedakah, in the amount of 10% to 30% of my income.  (There are specific guidelines on where to give, how to give, how much to give, when to give, in what order to give; for most people it is the 10-20%; the 30% is for fewer people.)  This recognizes that our money is not ours, it belongs to God who has entrusted it to us.  

 

 Beautiful. I also like that there is guidelines, as charity should be done intelligently. Could you please tell me more?

[ChiDragon]

There was an old Chinese saying:
錢不是萬能, 但是無錢是萬萬不能.
Money is not everything, but it is impossible without money!

[Surya]

5 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

On the path i follow, it is an obligation to give tzedakah, in the amount of 10% to 30% of my income.  (There are specific guidelines on where to give, how to give, how much to give, when to give, in what order to give; for most people it is the 10-20%; the 30% is for fewer people.)  This recognizes that our money is not ours, it belongs to God who has entrusted it to us.  

 

While awaiting (hopefully) your response, I’ll share this part of the purport to BG 16.1-3. I do think it is worth reading it all tho.

 

«The next item is charity. Charity is meant for the householders. The householders should earn a livelihood by an honorable means and spend fifty percent of their income to propagate Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. Thus a householder should give in charity to institutional societies that are engaged in that way. Charity should be given to the right receiver. There are different kinds of charity, as will be explained later on – charity in the modes of goodness, passion and ignorance. Charity in the mode of goodness is recommended by the scriptures, but charity in the modes of passion and ignorance is not recommended, because it is simply a waste of money. Charity should be given only to propagate Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. That is charity in the mode of goodness.»

 

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/16/1-3/

[BigSkyDiamond]

The codifier of Jewish law, Maimonedes (Rabbi Moses ben Maimon, 1135-1204) formulated a list of of eight levels of giving, correlating to the degree to which the giver is sensitive to the needs and feelings of the recipient.  Tzedakah takes into account the attitude of the person giving, with emphasis on preserving the dignity of the recipent.  For instance if an organization provides food weekly to a family, then it appears as a regularly grocery delivery (i.e. truck or uniform shows name of local grocery store) so it is not public that they are receiving assistance.  Giving "grudgingly with a sour countenance" is a lower level than giving pleasantly.  Giving before being asked is a higher level than giving after being asked. 

 

Giving anonymously is a greater level than giving where either  the recipient or the donor are known. That takes into account feelings of ego and one-upmanship for giver; and feelings of shame and inferiority for recipient.  The highest level of tzedakah is helping someone become self sufficient (helping them get a job or setting them up in business).

 

Tzedakah is seen as a cycle — the gifts that we give to others will eventually return to us.   God is acutely tuned in to our small acts of goodness and kindness. Our acts of giving stimulate God's blessings to shower down upon all of us, the giver and the receiver alike.    

 

Edited Thursday at 10:38 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[Surya]

4 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

The different levels of tzedakah are related to the attitude of the person giving, and with sensitivity towards preserving the dignity of the recipent.  For instance if an organizataion provides food weekly to a family, then it appears as a regularly grocery delivery (i.e. truck or uniform shows name of local grocery store) so it is not public that they are receiving assistance.  Giving "grudgingly with a sour countenance" is a lower level than giving pleasantly.  Giving before being asked is a higher level than giving after being asked. 

 

Giving anonymously is a greater level than giving where either  the recipient or the donor are known. That takes into account feelings of ego and one-upmanship for giver; and feelings of shame and inferiority for recipient.  The highest level of tzedakah is helping someone become self sufficient (helping them get a job or setting them up in business).

 

Tzedakah is seen as a cycle — the gifts that we give to others will eventually return to us.   God is acutely tuned in to our small acts of goodness and kindness. Our acts of giving stimulate God's blessings to shower down upon all of us, the giver and the receiver alike.    

Thank you, wonderful. 

[Cobie]

 

44 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

There was an old Chinese saying:
錢不是萬能, 但是無錢是萬萬不能.
Money is not everything, but it is impossible without money!

Hi CD, nice to see you.  What about the Buddha? Did he not live without money?

 

~~~

qian2 bu4 shi4 wan4 neng2, dan4 shi4 wu2 qian2 shi4 wan4 wan4 bu4 neng2

money does not make everything possible; but without money absolutely everything is impossible

 

 

Edited Thursday at 10:42 PM by Cobie

[Surya]

38 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

There was an old Chinese saying:
錢不是萬能, 但是無錢是萬萬不能.
Money is not everything, but it is impossible without money!

A balanced perspective, thanks 

[Cobie]

Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'! (Audrey Hepburn) 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 10:42 PM by Cobie

[Surya]

11 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'! (Audrey Hepburn) 

 

 

Hm… perhaps I misunderstood (both of) you. So I saw ChiDragons comment as pragmatic statement. In the world we (I at least, I hope we live in the same 😂 or actually… perhaps it would be good for you if don’t), allmost all things necessary for living is owned by someone. Remember that nestle man who attempted to… trademark… water? 

I’m possibly more shocked that he thought saying this would appear reasonable to anyone, then what he actually says.

 

The construction of temples and distribution of books to, has a cost. But the reward is priceless. I hope so, at least.

[BigSkyDiamond]

veering into agenda territory

[Surya]

@BigSkyDiamond

thanks for the reminder. We talked about giving earlier, and also agendas. Let’s say a beggar would be given the possibility to become a provider…. If two people are in need, and the former beggar knows one of them personally but not the other… is it wrong to show prefential treatment?

[BigSkyDiamond]

4 minutes ago, Surya said:

thanks for the reminder. We talked about giving earlier, and also agendas. Let’s say a beggar would be given the possibility to become a provider…. If two people are in need, and the former beggar knows one of them personally but not the other… is it wrong to show prefential treatment?

 

it's not for me to decide.  A person would follow the guidelines in their own path.  Different religious traditions have specific guidelines.  They are for managing our own behavior and our own character development.  They are not for monitoring other people's conduct or behavior.

 

Edited Thursday at 11:32 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[Surya]

Just now, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

it's not for me to decide.  A person would follow the guidelines in their own path.

My sense is that love for one’s own should not be confused with hatred for the other.

[Cobie]

Look, no money!  Historical and anthropological evidence suggests that bartering was the primary form of trade for a very long time before the widespread adoption of money.

 

 

[Cobie]

 

12 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

… religious … guidelines.  They are for managing our own behavior and our own character development.  They are not for monitoring other people's conduct or behavior.

I totally agree.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 11:42 PM by Cobie

[Cobie]

You can’t eat money.

 

“Only when the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, and the last stream poisoned, will the white man realize he cannot eat money." - Native American Proverb

 

 

Edited Friday at 12:18 AM by Cobie

[Surya]

Hmm.. there is a lot to learn (and unlearn). I think it is good to learn while practicing tho, as long as one is willing to listen.

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

Hi CD, nice to see you.  What about the Buddha? Did he not live without money?

 

~~~

qian2 bu4 shi4 wan4 neng2, dan4 shi4 wu2 qian2 shi4 wan4 wan4 bu4 neng2

money does not make everything possible; but without money absolutely everything is impossible

 

 

 

He  did live without  his  money      

 

But what would I know, I have never understood it , and never been able to manage it , much to the frustration of family and others around me .  I am absolutely hopeless  with it .   

 

I don't even know whose money it is !    Its totally weird, obscure and mystifying ;  I go to the machine in the wall , I put plastic card in , type in the secret formula and amount I want , and out it comes .  Yet there are all these others out there whose magic card and the little bit of paper you get afterwards for using the money machine  doesn't seem to have the right numbers on it  and then they might end up  hungry , unhappy , homeless  ....    

 

 

 

[Nungali]

 

 

<   not quick enough  >  

 

Edited Friday at 02:34 AM by Nungali

[ChiDragon]

6 hours ago, Cobie said:

Hi CD, nice to see you.  What about the Buddha? Did he not live without money?

Hi, Cobie. Likewise!The followers offer money to the temple. How do you think that they can survive without money?

[Krenx]

17 hours ago, Surya said:

Thank you. The energy analogy was amazing. I would be grateful if you could expand on the last paragraph. Also, does money have a set of chareteristics?

 

What about the last paragraph specifically do you need clarification on? 

[Cobie]

 

 

7 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

... How do you think that they can survive without money?

 

hunter-gatherers!

 

 

[Paradoxal]

Money is fundamentally a delusion of man; its value is only that which we assign to it. Unfortunately, in modern times, that tends to mean that money is power.

 

Money is the power to live, the power to reproduce, the power to 'own' something or someone, the power to get oneself elected, the power to ignore laws, the power to kill, and many other powers. 

 

This is why business is equated to warfare; both are a method of using power to dominate others.

[BigSkyDiamond]

2 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

Money is the power to live, the power to reproduce

 

that is actually quite funny.  what a quaint notion!

because people, trees, and animals are all quite capable, they can and do live and reproduce without money.

 

Edited Friday at 04:22 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[BigSkyDiamond]

2 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

the power to get oneself elected, the power to ignore laws, the power to kill, and many other powers. 

This is why business is equated to warfare; both are a method of using power to dominate others.

 

agenda much?