Mark Rasmus - Elastic Force Chi Kung // Hermetics

[goretex]

I see little discussion of Mark Rasmus here. He seems to be popular for combining qigong with a Hermetics framework and filling in the "lack" of physical training in a Western tradition. He and his students also have some popularity in the taiji community as witnessed by one of the few threads being from @dwai here. With respect from senior members here including @freeform

 

I also see him mentioned in a recent thread on Damo, so I thought he could use a dedicated thread.

 

I do see that some of his practices seem to bypass a lot of the "classical" route. For example, there is much more emphasis on feeling "vital force" in the beginning stages and understanding different principles in his system. Whereas Damo does seem to warn more against relying on sensations. He also doesn't seem to have a big emphasis on LDT cultivation. He stresses using partner work for collaboratively building sense/qualities and trying to attune to these different frequencies (vital, astral, mental, akashic). 

Here's a helpful interview by a former student that doesn't follow the hermetics framework. 

 
 

Edited July 30 by goretex

[Krenx]

I train his system along with my taiji practice. 

 

Here are the parallels that makes his system very translatable and supports taiji practice and methods. 

 

Vital frequency = physical body, jing

 

Astral frequency = Chi/Qi quality. 

 

Mental frequency = Shen quality. 

 

Akasha frequency = Wuji quality. 

 

So you train to transform the energies from vital to akasha, similar to jing qi shen, wuji. 

 

The term "transformation" is important. These frequencies are not just some random energy you pull out of thin air. You have to cultivate the prior energies to a certain extent before there is enough to transform into the next quality, vital being the most fundamental. You work on all of them, and some more then others depending on the phase of your training, and what you personally need for your goals.  

 

I have done Damo's methods too. I know he always downplays feelings, sensations and imagination stuff. But if you do this long enough, that kind of statements are really half truths. And half truths are quite harmful and leads to confusion. 

 

The truth about feelings, and imagination, is you need to know the context of what layer you are feeling, your attitude towards feeling, and same for imagination. The movement of the mind does trigger Qi, energy to move in specifics ways. It is not without its function in any practice. To abandon feelings and imagination completely is impossible. Developing a more refined context around it is the way to go.

[goretex]

 Thanks for chiming in with your experience @Krenx. Did you get results from both Rasmus and Damo's methods?

 

I found this video which gives an overview of how Rasmus views dantian development (and cultivation generally).

Start off with awareness mostly outside of the body to develop sensitivity rather than focus internally and get "stuck" on physical sensations. Doesn't believe in sinking the body; bad for body, knees, back. Doesn't believe in LDT energy storage; leads to mental issues (at least, as core practices). He suggests storing energy in the akasha (or in wuji? per @Krenx's correspondence). 

[Krenx]

@goretex

 

Damo's safety mechanism around Dantian training, is through refining yin qualities, to tame yang energy from creating unstable pressures and manifestations. It is good fundamentals, true, but I don't think it is enough to restraint the unstable quality of dantian building. What that kind of power becomes, depends on your cultivation and character that has been established many many years prior, and lifetimes. And that kind of character building is not just yin energy. It is your habitual life conduct and health in the mind. The success of dantian work, is depending on things not just in this lifetime. 

 

With Mark's methods, although the development of energy is released into space outside the body, we need to remember the fundemental rule of existence. All experience cannot be outside of "mind". All experience is actually an "internal" experience with our 6 sense basis. So this is still a very real  internal development, of the physical layer, to the other layers. 

 

It is VERY difficult to ignore your insecurities, obstacles, blockages, flaws, defilements with Mark's methods. Because you work on all the layers, the mind cannot run from itself with this kind of training. There is alot of obvious benefits to that. 

 

If you trained under older masters, and listen to their caution, they will share very similar stories of themselves, and of masters they know who train internal body methods, dantian work, dantian power. The stories are always the same. They die early, they go blind, they go crazy, their personalities, desires become aggressive, etc. And it is specifically tied to their type dantian sinking training. To contain Qi in ways the body and mind is unable to handle or tame. My master took up Buddhism to develop the insight to filter out and abandon unhealthy training methods.

 

The old branches of yang taiji through yang jianhou's lineages, inclines more towards mark rasmus theories. Where dantian is not really focused that way. It is just an area that is recognized to have a bigger "space" for chi to collect. But collection is not what they do. Energy just flows through it and fills to whatever ratio is available, and flows on. The practice is to purify and stabilize the energies. And when one later is stable to a certain extent, it creates a natural momentum to transform to the next later, jing qi shen, wuji, akasha etc.

[goretex]

On 8/4/2025 at 10:28 AM, Krenx said:

@goretex

 

Damo's safety mechanism around Dantian training, is through refining yin qualities, to tame yang energy from creating unstable pressures and manifestations. It is good fundamentals, true, but I don't think it is enough to restraint the unstable quality of dantian building. What that kind of power becomes, depends on your cultivation and character that has been established many many years prior, and lifetimes. And that kind of character building is not just yin energy. It is your habitual life conduct and health in the mind. The success of dantian work, is depending on things not just in this lifetime. 

 

With Mark's methods, although the development of energy is released into space outside the body, we need to remember the fundemental rule of existence. All experience cannot be outside of "mind". All experience is actually an "internal" experience with our 6 sense basis. So this is still a very real  internal development, of the physical layer, to the other layers. 

 

It is VERY difficult to ignore your insecurities, obstacles, blockages, flaws, defilements with Mark's methods. Because you work on all the layers, the mind cannot run from itself with this kind of training. There is alot of obvious benefits to that. 

 

If you trained under older masters, and listen to their caution, they will share very similar stories of themselves, and of masters they know who train internal body methods, dantian work, dantian power. The stories are always the same. They die early, they go blind, they go crazy, their personalities, desires become aggressive, etc. And it is specifically tied to their type dantian sinking training. To contain Qi in ways the body and mind is unable to handle or tame. My master took up Buddhism to develop the insight to filter out and abandon unhealthy training methods.

 

The old branches of yang taiji through yang jianhou's lineages, inclines more towards mark rasmus theories. Where dantian is not really focused that way. It is just an area that is recognized to have a bigger "space" for chi to collect. But collection is not what they do. Energy just flows through it and fills to whatever ratio is available, and flows on. The practice is to purify and stabilize the energies. And when one later is stable to a certain extent, it creates a natural momentum to transform to the next later, jing qi shen, wuji, akasha etc.

Thank you for this explanation. Revisiting this as I have had a chance to practice a bit more. I have also received the Elastic Force Chi Kung book, and it's amusingly a manga-inspired illustration of different exercises. 

 

I know in your correspondence "vital energy" is "jing", but I assume there's some crossover to yang energy? I'm noticing that it triggers spontaneous qigong for me, but that might be because I already have had such a practice. I don't see any mentions of spontaneous qigong in videos so far. And then secondary question, how does Mark's framework cultivate yin?

 

Third unrelated question, how do you view the elemental cultivation? I presume if it was using 5 element framework that it'd be more palatable to qigong practitioners. It also makes me wonder why elemental cultivation isn't more popular

[Krenx]

@goretex

Vital you can think of it as the more physical and substantial frequency of energy. As opposed to the more subtle energies. 

 

Spontaneous movements is not part of the curriculum. It might arise occasionally depending on the individual, but it should pass. 

 

You will hear the term electric and magnetic qualities in his system. For example building the ball. The magnetic quality is yin. The electric quality is yang. 

 

It is only 4 elements that mark works with. The metal element is between air and fire, so generally working with the 4 earth, water, air, fire, covers metal. 

 

Elemental cultivation at the essence, is a more tangible way to acquire equanimity. Because we interact with these elements as humans, developing them, becoming intimate with them, helps us tame it, so one does not run wild on its own. And so balance is achieved just by becoming "friends" with it. Becoming less a stranger to it. So when faced with those elemental qualities in life, your mind does not get agitated by it. 

 

The 4 elements is a hermetics thing, nothing to do with appealing to Qi gong.

 

Elemental practice is popular, specifically in the bagua and xingyi circles. And Buddhist practice. 

 

 

Edited August 27 by Krenx