Has anyone tried the course on ancientmasters.org?

[心神 ~]

7 hours ago, durian tree said:

All that being said, I'm quite curious to try it for the sake of trying it and being able to report back on what exactly learning from them is like. It would make for good content for others if nothing else and could serve as a warning if it's nonsense. At the same time, that's a lot of money for possibly no gain.

 

If you're capable of structuring your own learning, you can always work through their curriculum yourself. There's obviously degrees of information you won't receive or have access to, but it can give you a chance to familiarize yourself with everything they teach before you pay them to teach you the "next level" of those subjects, if that's something they're able to do.

 

Maybe halfway through self-study, you realize you're not interested in this path as a means of spiritual development. Or maybe you realize it's everything you want to pursue, and you'll feel more confident in your choice to take the classes.

 

The first four years lead to an exam and the joining of their order, with monthly membership meetings and other trainings, retreats, and projects. That means you'll be joining a community and forming deep bonds, possibly sharing intimate things about yourself and placing yourself in a vulnerable position at the mercy of your teachers and community (and paying a lot of money to do so!).

 

So it's important to consider if you want to join their order, if you trust the leaders, if you want camaraderie and growth with the sorts of people who take the courses and eventually join the order, etc. If you enmesh yourself for the sake of information at the expense of relationships, you may eventually face backlash from those who have formed attachments (be those attachments "negative" or "positive").

 

You mentioned undergoing therapy. Starting school or a new job is difficult enough, and doing so while in therapy is even more challenging. Add magic mysteries and unknown motives, and the weight of activity could be debilitating. It's important to know what you can handle at each level.

 

I'm of the mindset that you will find what you seek, so as others have pointed out, make sure you know what it is that you're seeking. Colloquially, be careful what you wish for.

 

Year 1 - First Step

• MT101 - Meditation - Essentials to control one's mind
• EW101 - Energy Cultivation - Core exercises to raise one's energy levels
• TE101 - Visualization - Introductory training opening of the Third Eye
• EW102 - Fireball - Creating and manipulating energy objects

 

Year 2 - Developing Core

• EW103 - Lower Dantian - Accumulation and storage of raw power
• EW105 - Self-Regulation - Chakra maintenance work that improves energy flow and well-being
• OW108 - Astral Travel - Awareness of subtle bodies and OBE training
• AM101 - Magic - Introduction to the Magic system through Arcana System

 

Year 3 - Awakening

• OW109 - Dreamworld - Exploration of dream worlds, you'll learn skills of remembering dreams, mapping and navigation
• TE102 - Magus Hall - Continuation of TE101 that activates the Third Eye
• MT102 - Ego Shedding - Focus on freeing the mind from impediments, negative constructs, and shackles
• AM122 - The Fool - A module focused on the first of the Major Arcana

 

Year 4 - Becoming Adept

• AM121 - The Success - Studying the energy of 21 Arcanum - The World
• AM119 - The Sun - Studying energy of 19 Arcanum - The Sun
• AM118 - The Moon - Studying energy of 18 Arcanum - The Moon
• PM106 - Elemental Magic - Exploring the Magic of Fire, Air, Water, and Earth - Parametrization of object scanning

[Annnon]

20 hours ago, durian tree said:

Intense retreats are not too different. Anyone that's predisposed to psychosis shouldn't do either of them.

 

14 hours ago, Nungali said:

Then she went to an Osho awareness retreat thingo  ... and came back a fractured disturbed mess ... it happened during the retreat and they asked her to leave , with no support or back up for what had been 'released' .

 

Finally people talking abou the dangers of these retreats. I've heard stories of people who commited suicide after these intense meditation retreats or went into psychosis and mania after some time of meditation.

Not sure what exactly triggers the mental illness or if they already had one prior to attending the event, but it affirms what I heard from other sources "Even simple meditation can be dangerous", which is even scarier when we think how meditation was brought to the west as a form of relieving stress for anyone lol

 

10 hours ago, durian tree said:

The fact that they seem to be purely interested in powers is also a huge red flag to me.

 

They're just as lost in samsara as anyone else in this forum

 

No true spiritual development system focuses on the powers, it's just a sign of good practice and that it's working but they all say you shouldn't stay there, in these guys system powers seems to be the end goal, so I don't think they can call it a "spiritual development system".

 

 

 

10 hours ago, durian tree said:

All that being said, I'm quite curious to try it for the sake of trying it and being able to report back on what exactly learning from them is like.

 

9 hours ago, durian tree said:

What I'm doing here is a deliberate exercise in foolishness. If it's real, I get to learn something useful and reassess. If it's fake (likely), I have an awesome story that nobody else has ever documented.

 

If you do this I will be your biggest fan bro

[Annnon]

2 hours ago, 心神 ~ said:

EW102 - Fireball - Creating and manipulating energy objects

Oh what a disappointment, I though they would teach how to throw fireballs

 

[durian tree]

3 hours ago, 心神 ~ said:

If you're capable of structuring your own learning, you can always work through their curriculum yourself. There's obviously degrees of information you won't receive or have access to, but it can give you a chance to familiarize yourself with everything they teach before you pay them to teach you the "next level" of those subjects, if that's something they're able to do.

 

Maybe halfway through self-study, you realize you're not interested in this path as a means of spiritual development. Or maybe you realize it's everything you want to pursue, and you'll feel more confident in your choice to take the classes.

 

I've self-studied most of what they're offering already and come to the conclusion that what they're saying seems to be mistaking the forest for the trees, now that you mention it. The only thing I don't have that could possibly change things is an awakened third eye by their definition. It is worth noting, though, that it is quite possible to develop all kinds of spiritual powers without ever realizing you're stuck. I have to imagine that leads to the type of massively inflated ego we see from those guys on this forum and their website.

 

3 hours ago, 心神 ~ said:

The first four years lead to an exam and the joining of their order, with monthly membership meetings and other trainings, retreats, and projects. That means you'll be joining a community and forming deep bonds, possibly sharing intimate things about yourself and placing yourself in a vulnerable position at the mercy of your teachers and community (and paying a lot of money to do so!).

 

So it's important to consider if you want to join their order, if you trust the leaders, if you want camaraderie and growth with the sorts of people who take the courses and eventually join the order, etc. If you enmesh yourself for the sake of information at the expense of relationships, you may eventually face backlash from those who have formed attachments (be those attachments "negative" or "positive").

 

Yeah, this has popped up when thinking about it, but you put it really well. This is definitely in the category of things that would only really work if you ardently believed in it working and drank the kool aid. I'm not looking to join a cult and would need to keep a layer of insulation, so maybe it was a failed premise from the get-go. Not to mention the money, which could probably be better spent on Rudi's course or a retreat in a system I know I already get a lot out of.

 

3 hours ago, 心神 ~ said:

You mentioned undergoing therapy. Starting school or a new job is difficult enough, and doing so while in therapy is even more challenging. Add magic mysteries and unknown motives, and the weight of activity could be debilitating. It's important to know what you can handle at each level.

 

This really strikes home. I'm currently in a long and stressful job interview process to try to escape my shitty and overbearing job. Part of me wonders how much of this crazed research into these guys has been brought on by that. Or maybe it's just the intoxicating notion of powers.

 

4 hours ago, 心神 ~ said:

I'm of the mindset that you will find what you seek, so as others have pointed out, make sure you know what it is that you're seeking. Colloquially, be careful what you wish for.

 

I really appreciate this insight all around. I think this entire thread and research process has revealed a lot about where things are at in my life to me, and that's enough value on its own. The ego tends to really pop out for me when engaging directly with strangers on the internet, for whatever reason. I have a friend who's more than willing to teach me a lot of what these guys talk about, and I have verified in the past that he generally knows what he's doing. It's become clear to me that I still need to define what I actually want, spiritually. That said, documenting this program is still of interest. It's clear to me that now is not the time, though, for a variety of reasons. Heck, I probably have enough information to make a moderately interesting YouTube video already. Thank you for the detailed reflections.

[Iskote]

My view: 

There is no such thing as a spiritual master.
A real 'spiritual master' would never refer to them self as a 'master' (as there is no such thing). 
What is spirit? Is it different from our self? How do you know? 

We are. We are conscious. Beyond that what do we really know?
Much of our concepts are really just mental constructions (ideas, beliefs, suppositions, etc.). 
 

Those who truly want to help others do so freely and without any thought of personal gain or compensation. 
They try to help because they truly want to help. 

People who charge any sums of money to 'teach' others for 'spiritual' training are in it for the money. Period. 

 

Edited July 31 by Iskote

[kakapo]

19 hours ago, durian tree said:

 I'm quite curious to try it

 

 

 If a homeless person wanted to offer you advice on which stocks to invest in,  would you listen?

 

If a teacher with no accomplishments offered to teach you the real deal stuff, would you listen?

 

I think you should be very mentally hygienic, and focus only on practices which have good evidence backing them. 

 

Anyone can make a course and a website and charge a monthly fee, but not everyone knows what they are talking about.  

[Nungali]

Really ? 

 

Do you mean that woman that put the poster up in my town offering to teach  'Faerie Tantra '  might have been faking it  ? 

 

 

   

 

.

 

Edited July 30 by Nungali

[Neirong]

On 29.07.2025 at 4:00 PM, 心神 ~ said:

If you're capable of structuring your own learning, you can always work through their curriculum yourself.

 

I imagine you would not feel right going to a medical doctor and trusting your life to a person who has learned about medical science on his own.

Magic is a dangerous art to explore without a teacher/school, and I would prefer not to accept self-studied individuals.

 

On 29.07.2025 at 8:12 PM, durian tree said:

I've self-studied most of what they're offering already and come to the conclusion that what they're saying seems to be mistaking the forest for the trees, now that you mention it. The only thing I don't have that could possibly change things is an awakened third eye by their definition.

 

You have self-studied magic, which cannot be self-studied, and you realized everyone is wrong. Be on your way

 

On 30.07.2025 at 1:28 AM, Iskote said:

There is no such thing as a spiritual master.

 

There is a master in any skill and art.

 

On 30.07.2025 at 1:28 AM, Iskote said:

Those who truly want to help others do so freely and without any thought of personal gain or compensation. 
They try to help because they truly want to help. 

People who charge any sums of money to 'teach' others for 'spiritual' training are in it for the money. Period. 

 

Start from yourself, go to your job, and tell them that from today, all work you are doing will be for free and unpaid, as you are there to help people.

We do answer legitimate inquiries - there is a guestbook section on our discord.
 

P.S. Kakapo is a troll who has been banned from our Discord. He claimed to be the most talented, hardworking disciple and offered to dedicate 20 years of his life to a foundation program that is only 4 years long. Now, it seems he has been losing his mind lately, believing he is a conglomerate of cells. I am not sure why he keeps talking here. Magic is clearly not for him.
 

I have refrained from writing an educational article on WMP/WMC before, but it might change. 
In a few words, they stole practices from Indonesians and defiled the name of neigong master John Chang.
The only result they get from cultivation that has been documented is cancer.
I think the ancestors of Indonesian mopai cursed everyone who practices it illegally.
I will not further discuss WMC as it is against the forum rules. 

[BigSkyDiamond]

1 hour ago, Neirong said:

I imagine you would not feel right going to a medical doctor and trusting your life to a person who has learned about medical science on his own.

 

However there is transparency with medical doctors.  Procedures and results are openly recorded, shared, documented, published, and reviewed by peers, subject matter experts, and the public .  The medical profession is evidence-based and data-driven.  There is accountability at the institutional level through the use of accreditation standards for medical schools.  And there is accountability at the personal level through the system of licensing and board review.  It is illegal to practice without a license, and there are ethical standards and conduct and ethics review boards.

 

I don't see any of that in the field of "magic" in general, or this website in particular.  Doctors are not "sworn to secrecy" to never record and never publicly demonstrate what it is they do.  So no, the comparison with medical doctors is neither valid nor credible.  

 

Edited Monday at 01:57 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[BigSkyDiamond]

1 hour ago, Neirong said:

Magic is a dangerous art to explore without a teacher/school

 

bold above, I agree with 100%

I would say it is dangerous period full stop.  with or without a school or teacher.

 

which is why i stay away from it.  

 

 

Edited Monday at 01:59 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[Cobie]

.

Edited Monday at 02:34 PM by Cobie

[Cobie]

imo: 

beware, a lot of 'magicians' are at worst con-artists or at best deluded. 

 

6 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

... dangerous ...

 

imo:  

not really.  It’s just a funny little (ususally) guy that put on funny clothes and is waving his hands in the air. The only power comes from one’s belief in it.  So it’s very important to chose wisely what to believe in. Ususally ‘magicians’ lack what I would call ‘morality’ and therefore are imo best avoided. 

 

6 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

...  i stay away from it.  

 

Sound idea, so do I. 

 

 

Edited Monday at 08:11 PM by Cobie