Has anyone tried the course on ancientmasters.org?

[BigSkyDiamond]

23 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

in what ways might neigong be incompatible with therapy ?

i am wondering what the contra-indications might be.

 

 

my question is a general one regarding nei gong in general.

not related to any specific teacher or individual school of nei gong.

 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond

[durian tree]

45 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

 

my question is a general one regarding nei gong in general.

not related to any specific teacher or individual school of nei gong.

 

 

Let's say hypothetically you're doing a type of therapy that involves entering into intense altered states of consciousness through whatever means, then talking it out. Could be breathwork, guided meditation, EMDR, entheogens, or whatever else. I'm no expert, but my understanding is that neigong and similar practices involve directly tinkering with your body and mind in their function and operation. Stuff like that will always run the risk of causing serious physical and mental health complications. Adding in a state of relative loss of control compounds that potential for harm. I'm sure it can also impact qi development depending on who you ask. Whether being in a therapeutic setting matters (or whether these things matter at all in general) is up to the teacher.

Edited 18 hours ago by durian tree

[stirling]

34 minutes ago, durian tree said:

Let's say hypothetically you're doing a type of therapy that involves entering into intense altered states of consciousness through whatever means, then talking it out. Could be breathwork, guided meditation, EMDR, entheogens, or whatever else. I'm no expert, but my understanding is that neigong and similar practices involve directly tinkering with your body and mind in their function and operation. Stuff like that will always run the risk of causing serious physical and mental health complications. Adding in a state of relative loss of control compounds that potential for harm. I'm sure it can also impact qi development depending on who you ask. Whether being in a therapeutic setting matters (or whether these things matter at all in general) is up to the teacher.

 

I'll just say that combining entheogens, or medically treatable mental illness with meditation (especially on retreat) is asking for trouble and should be carefully monitored by a mental health professional. 

[BigSkyDiamond]

i had to look up "entheogens"

= psychoactive substances

 

my own training (starting way back when 35 years ago with basic shamanic journey) across all modalities has always been avoid psychotropics completely.  Because it is (a) asking for trouble, (b) causes irreperable damage to the etheric field, (c) not worth the risk, results can be obtained in a safer manner.  Several teachers i have had over the decades have this as a condition of being accepted to train with them.

 

Edited 14 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond

[kakapo]

19 hours ago, durian tree said:

Could you point me to where the link is? Their website says you have to pay to get onto the server.

 

Got a link to them saying this?

 

I get that people in this thread have made it clear they're not interested in listening. I'm still open to a conversation of some kind.

 

 

[durian tree]

3 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

 

While similar in level of confidence and way of speaking, I don't think this dude is affiliated with the site I linked? He stopped posting years before either of the guys who run the site showed up here and talks about much more unhinged stuff than they ever do.

 

Funny thread, through.

[stirling]

15 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

i had to look up "entheogens"

= psychoactive substances

 

my own training (starting way back when 35 years ago with basic shamanic journey) across all modalities has always been avoid psychotropics completely.  Because it is (a) asking for trouble, (b) causes irreperable damage to the etheric field, (c) not worth the risk, results can be obtained in a safer manner.  Several teachers i have had over the decades have this as a condition of being accepted to train with them.

 

Aren't entheogens a fairly common cornerstone to shamanic ritual? They were in my experience, but I was admittedly only ever a dabbler.

 

I know a couple of people who have had entheogens as part of their "path" or even the moment of illumination, myself included. While it wasn't part of the moment when understanding dawned for me, it was part of the story.  I wouldn't discount it entirely, myself.

 

These substances CAN be quite beneficial in softening or even removing conceptual concretions of the "self" when there are experiences of "unity"/no-self or other/etc. The danger they pose is primarily to those who already have intense grasping to "self" or underdeveloped and weak "self" to begin with, like those with more profound mental health issues such as schizophrenia. Of course, these substances can be unpredictable and have mixed success without some screening and supervision, and aren't really necessary in most cases.

 

Whatever method or lack thereof that works for one person very likely won't work for another. It can happen in countless ways - for some there will be the sound of a pebble on a pot, for others it might happen while in a dentist's waiting room, or while skydiving, or even after ingesting Lysergic acid diethylamide. Most are never going to worry, or need to worry, about abstract conceptual underpinnings as they are entirely dualistic in nature and have no real bearing on the complete realization. 

[BigSkyDiamond]

8 minutes ago, stirling said:

The danger they pose is primarily to those who

 

The danger they pose is to anyone.  to everyone.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by BigSkyDiamond

[stirling]

11 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

The danger they pose is to anyone.  to everyone.

 

Not really any more dangerous that going on a meditation retreat or working with the most direct practices. Real, transformative spiritual practice digs up our most protected and ancient pain, attachment, aversion, and leads to a "death" of sorts - it inherently includes risk, and inevitably creates some difficulties for the practitioner. Realization necessarily breaks all of our closely held beliefs about who "we" are what "reality" is, any clinging to what you thought was "true" or "real" has to be let go of.

[BigSkyDiamond]

6 minutes ago, stirling said:

Not really any more dangerous that going on a meditation retreat 

 

to say that psychoactive substances are no more dangerous than meditation

is a red flag.   a big one.

 

Edited 40 minutes ago by BigSkyDiamond