old3bob Posted yesterday at 11:23 AM she is just out of reach as she touches you.... and that is enough. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forestofclarity Posted yesterday at 02:06 PM I don't think there is a strict division between "enlightened" and "not enlightened"--- it is on a spectrum. One classic Advaitic definition is that realization starts with tattva jnana, or knowing reality, followed by manonasa, the destruction of the mind (in this case, the mind's thinkative and clinging nature) and a thinning of mental habits, vasana kshaya. This thinkative mind and mental habits is usually what we take to be "us," so the '"you" is in the way. The result is the natural cessation of fear, doubt, and suffering. The usual indications are a lack of reactivity, spontaneity, an expansive view, etc. The mechanical habits of mind is very apparent in most of us, and the lack of it also seems apparent. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 19 hours ago 13 hours ago, Surya said: Do I understand you correctly in that you are saying that the physical and mental is one and the same? Urrrgha .... Ummm , no, you misunderstood yourself . You said : " the spirit/magical realm vs. the material, " I suggest removing the vs from that ^ not this new arrangement of 'physical vs mental ' . vs means 'against, opposed to , or in contrast to '. Spirit our magic should not work or be against the material . it should not oppose it but give depth meaning and insight into the material and although it can seem in contrast to it , for many it isn't ; for example a traditional Aboriginal believe ( before invasion of the nasty people ) was 'this IS heaven ' . No separation between spiritual and material , they interweave and flow into each other . 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted 19 hours ago On 7/11/2025 at 12:40 PM, Cobie said: ok. you are “illumination”-luke. meaning of an incandescent or energy saving LED type? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Foote Posted 18 hours ago 9 hours ago, forestofclarity said: I don't think there is a strict division between "enlightened" and "not enlightened"--- it is on a spectrum. One classic Advaitic definition is that realization starts with tattva jnana, or knowing reality, followed by manonasa, the destruction of the mind (in this case, the mind's thinkative and clinging nature) and a thinning of mental habits, vasana kshaya. This thinkative mind and mental habits is usually what we take to be "us," so the '"you" is in the way. The result is the natural cessation of fear, doubt, and suffering. The usual indications are a lack of reactivity, spontaneity, an expansive view, etc. The mechanical habits of mind is very apparent in most of us, and the lack of it also seems apparent. "(the) thinkative mind and mental habits is usually what we take to be 'us'"... It were better… if the untaught manyfolk approached this body, child of the four great elements, as the self rather than the mind. Why so? Seen is it… how this body, child of the four great elements, persists for a year, persists for two years, persists for three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty years, persists for forty, for fifty years, persists for a hundred years and even longer. But this… that we call thought, that we call mind, that we call consciousness, that arises as one thing, ceases as another, whether by night or by day. (SN 12.61, tr. Pali Text Society vol II p 66) Gautama spoke in many lectures about his enlightenment, which took place in or after the fourth or the final concentration, depending on the lecture, but was really a matter of "profound knowledge" or "intuitive wisdom" (MN 70) , a kind of gnosis that followed his witness of "past habitations" and "future arisings". With his enlightenment, he said, the three cankers were no longer present in him, they were like palm trees that had been cut off at the root, never to grow again. The cankers: The three “cankers” were said to be three cravings: “craving for the life of sense”, “craving for becoming”, and “craving for not-becoming” (DN 22; PTS vol. ii p 340). When the cankers are “destroyed”, the roots of the craving for sense-pleasures, the roots of the craving “to continue, to survive, to be” (tr. “bhava”, Bhikkyu Sujato), and the roots of the craving not “to be” (the craving for the ignorance of being) are destroyed. (One Way or Another) Where the confusion comes in: Gautama’s advice was to go by the words of the teacher rather than any claim to authority, to compare the instructions of a teacher to the sermons Gautama himself had given and to the rules of the order that Gautama himself had laid down (DN 16 PTS vol. ii pp 133-136). Nevertheless, activity solely by virtue of the free location of consciousness, the hallmark of the fourth concentration, has been conveyed by demonstration in some branches of Buddhism for millennia. The transmission of a central part of the teaching through such conveyance, and the certification of that transmission by the presiding teacher, is regarded by some schools as the only guarantee of the authenticity of a teacher. The teachers so authenticated have in many cases disappointed their students, when circumstances revealed that the teacher’s cankers had not been completely destroyed. Furthermore, some schools appear to have certified transmission without the conveyance that has kept the tradition alive, perhaps for the sake of the continuation of the school. (ibid) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kakapo Posted 13 hours ago On 7/9/2025 at 1:48 PM, Surya said: Another question for the enlightened: how do you know you are enlightened? When there is no longer a you to be enlightened. I view myself not as one thing, but rather the conversation trillions of cells are having across an organic internet. I am the energy and information they exchange. The collective conversation that society of cells has. I am that energy and information. There is no me inside this body. There are just trillions of cells talking and communicating with one another. Each with their own individual wills and perspectives. We also are doing the same thing our cells are, as we share energy and information and communicate on the internet. That exchange of energy and information gives rise to an awareness not unlike our own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites