Death

[Vajra Fist]

I've been thinking a lot about mortality recently. The algorithm knows my mind, clearly, and recommended this talk.

 

 

I feel like I've been on some inverse dunning kruger curve in my meditation practice.

 

I started getting into buddhism about a decade ago, primarily with pure land. My thought was that non-retrogression was the best I could hope for as a layperson.

 

As I learned more, I realised that lots of people were getting stream entry with diligent practice. Stream entry, for those that don't know, is like the initial awakening. You're guaranteed to attain nibbana withing a fixed number of lifetimes, according to the suttas.

 

So I started thinking that if perhaps I could reach that point, then non-retrogression becomes something tangible in this lifetime. I can die in peace, knowing I won't be lost again in my next life.

 

Now after practicing quite intensely for a while, looking at people who are supposedly near the end of the path, I can see there's still a lot of personality material there to be worked through. I wonder if there's anyone in this whole world who has reached the point of completion. 

 

I have had a practice of nembutsu recitation before bed - nothing too intense, just a single turn of a mala. But I feel called to make it my main practice for a while.

 

If Beth is right in her understanding of the commentaries, and jhana is an exceptionally good seed that can influence your next rebirth. Then I'd wager that mindfulness of the Buddha, even without the operation of the primal vow, might also be some good juju. 

 

[Krenx]

There are some who has completed the path in this world. They are called Arahants, those who completed the path. The Buddha is categorized as an arahant as well, along with many of his students who reached the final goal as well.  

 

But it is not easy to verify for a lay person. Only Arahants can accurately determine if another has become an arahant, abandoned craving, never to be reborn again. 

 

We can only really make the best guess as lay people, according to the signs and features of the arahants the Buddha has laid out in many ways. Like having perfect Sila(ethical conduct) with ease. Incapable of breaking ethical precepts. No fear of death etc. 

 

Stream entry requires two conditions for it to arise. The voice of another teaching the true dhamma, and wise/ womb attention (Yoniso manasikara). Make effort to refine those conditions 👍. 

 

Disclaimer : This is specific to early Buddhist teachings of the 5 Nikayas suttas 🙏. Not all branches of Buddhism has the same views in the topic.  

 

[stirling]

For discussion purposes, some Buddhist early traditions point to what I like to call "Non-dual 1" which refers to the insight of no-self. Later traditions point to "Non-dual 2" which is "emptiness". In my opinion "enlightenment" ALWAYS (sometimes eventually, perhaps) ends up being "Non-dual 2". 

 

"Non-dual 2" is when there is not only "no-self" in the practitioner, but ALSO when NO seeming objects/appearances in consciousness have "self" either. ALL dualities begin to dissolve on awakening, including those of time (then/now) and space (here/there). If we take "self" AND time out of the equation, what is born or dies? Whither past lives? This is where you get:

 

Quote

There is neither ignorance nor extinction of ignorance... neither old age and death, nor extinction of old age and death; no suffering, no cause, no cessation, no path; no knowledge and no attainment. - Buddha, Heart Sutra

 

Death exists in the Relative reality, but is an obvious delusion when seen from the Absolute. Both coexist, like the yin/yang. But what we truly are is "the deathless".

 

Quote

When the heart is released from clinging, then consciousness does not land anywhere. That state, I tell you, is without sorrow, afflication or despair. - Buddha, Anguttara Nikaya 3.128

 

What we truly are is the only thing that is not impermanent. It is something you are intimately familiar with, and that is always visible once your teacher introduces you to the "emptiness"/Buddha Nature/Rigpa/The Nature of Mind and you learn to return to this seeing with your practice. This simple moment of introduction, properly understood, is probably the most powerful moment of teaching any student could receive.

 

-

 

There are arhats all over the place. There are a number on this board, and there is often at least one even in small towns where there is dharma, though not always. I know a few in my small town of 10,000 or so, for example. They come from many traditions, and sometimes NO tradition. The way to know them is by the simple clarity of their teaching, kindness, humbleness, gentle humor and stillness of being.

 

The method of practice is to seek stillness, and stop clinging and aversion in your life when you have been trained to recognize it. This liberates karma. Precept study is a good idea. The precepts are designed to help you focus on areas where you can stop generating karma. Include Bodhidharma's version of the precepts when you study them. Meditation where there is "emptiness" is what the world looks like without karma, AND "self". Watch and drop any clinging and aversion to your path, your practice, success or failure, or attainment. 

 

_/\_

[Vajra Fist]

Yes, I don't know. Part of the issue is the moving goalposts. Mahayana can be a bit vague, but the early Buddhist texts are quite specific.

 

The classical definition is someone who has shed the 10 fetters. That means no aversion no sensual desire. In other words, they don't arise, the karma has already been extinguished.

 

This is a person who is effectively comfortable with being stabbed or shot. Who has no sexual feelings at all. 

 

You see this with Delson Armstrong, who strongly implied he was an arahant. Then several unflattering videos emerged of him on YouTube, and he was forced to say that he wasn't where he thought he was. Or else the early Buddhist texts weren't to be taken literally. 

 

Others say this too, like Daniel Ingram. That stuff like aversion or craving still emerge even at the state of an arahant, but you are unmoved by them. 

 

There are also hundreds of people calling themselves stream enterers on reddit forums too. 

 

Others take a more traditionalist approach. For instance, Thanissaro Bhikku said that he was aware of several laypeople who claimed stream entry, but never met one who had actually achieved it. 

 

This was the case in the Buddha's time too.

 

Quote

 "There may be a monk who declares he has attained to the highest knowledge, that of Arahatship. Then the Master, or a disciple capable of knowing the minds of others, examines and questions him. When they question him, that monk becomes embarrassed and confused. The questioner now understands that the monk has made this declaration through overrating himself out of conceit. Then, considering the reason for it, he sees that this monk has acquired much knowledge of the Teaching and proficiency in it, which made him declare his overestimation of himself to be the truth. Penetrating the mind of that monk, he sees that he is still obstructed by the five hindrances and has stopped half-way while there is still more to do."
— A.10:86

 

Honestly, my point wasn't really to argue that achieving nibbana in this life is close to impossible, even more so for the layperson.

 

It was that - if we're wrong about our attainments, then we find ourselves in a precarious position after death.

 

Whatever good seeds we have sown, our negative karma could be heavier and we could be reborn onto the lower paths. We may have a good rebirth, perhaps in the celestial plane, or else have an affluent life, but there's no guarantee we encounter the dharma. 

 

In other words, nothing is certain after death. 

 

I sometimes just feel that pure land is a path better suited to us, as homemakers. Where at death, the strongest cow - the first one out of the gate - is the one that leads to pure land rebirth and non-retrogression.

Edited 13 hours ago by Vajra Fist

[BigSkyDiamond]

what is non-retrogression?  

for this layperson to understand.  thank you.

 

 

[Vajra Fist]

54 minutes ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

what is non-retrogression?  

for this layperson to understand.  thank you.

 

 

 

It's like no backsliding. I.e. you will no longer be reborn in lower realms, you will encounter the dharma in every lifetime, and you are guaranteed to eventually attain nibbana within five rebirths. Stream entry works like this.

 

Pure land doctrine is a little different and is mainly based on the Amitabha sutra, a mahayana text. The principle is if you recite Amitabha Buddha's name (a practice known as nembutsu/nianfo) then at death you will be reborn into a pure abode. This is kind of like a special training environment where you can cultivate and eventually realise buddhahood. The idea is that you are no longer subject to rebirth. You are therefore protected from falling onto evil paths, being lost in samsara and not encountering the dharma again in hundreds of thousands of rebirths.

Edited 5 hours ago by Vajra Fist

[BigSkyDiamond]

so "progress" we have made is retained and carries forward. yes.

thank you for providing clarity.  

i am learning a lot

 

Edited 4 hours ago by BigSkyDiamond

[Vajra Fist]

2 hours ago, BigSkyDiamond said:

so "progress" we have made is retained and carries forward. yes.

thank you for providing clarity.  

i am learning a lot

 

 

In Buddhist cosmology there are six realms.

 

The lower rebirths are places of suffering, hells, ghosts and animals. The higher births are of humans, demi-gods and gods. 

 

In some traditions, these correspond to mental states. For instance:

Hells - anger

Ghosts - greed

Animals - ignorance

Humans - desire

Demi-gods - jealousy

Gods- pride/torpor

 

Generally speaking, one would need exceptionally good karma to be reborn in the higher realms.

 

Quote

At Sāvatthī.

Then the Buddha, picking up a little bit of dirt under his fingernail, addressed the mendicants: “What do you think, mendicants? Which is more: the little bit of dirt under my fingernail, or this great earth?”

“Sir, the great earth is far more. The little bit of dirt under your fingernail is tiny. Compared to the great earth, it doesn’t count, there’s no comparison, it’s not worth a fraction.”

“In the same way the sentient beings reborn as humans are few, while those not reborn as humans are many.

So you should train like this: ‘We will stay diligent.’ That’s how you should train.”

 

So the issue then comes to your next life. If you spend your life in cultivation, but fail to reach the state of an arahant, where you have extinguished all karma, then you will still be subject to rebirth.

 

Unless you've entered the stream, there is a high likelihood that whatever merit you have generated from your practice will be transformed into good fortune in your next life. You might become a chief executive of a company, or else be reborn in the realm of the gods. But even there you will be subject to rebirth.

 

After extinguishing your good karma, you may fall to the lower births again.