Help on the spiritual path

[Maddie]

21 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

One of the reasons this is a common thing that's told is that most meditation teachers are entirely unqualified and this includes Gurus both self-proclaimed and "appointed" ones by some tradition.

 

I hope this changes in the future and teachers have eg at a minimum finished a 3-year university course in mindfulness, after that they can teach whatevs but let's first make sure they dont recommend exercises which raise dopamine to people who shouldn't have their dopamine raised..

 

It is indeed a very unregulated field, which comes with the problems of an unregulated field. And yes even the so called "experts" don't seem to know what they are doing. 

[snowymountains]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

It is indeed a very unregulated field, which comes with the problems of an unregulated field. And yes even the so called "experts" don't seem to know what they are doing. 

 

Imo that's an issue, as it often results in advice that's bad for health.

 

That said, I've met some excellent teachers too, clearly they're out there as well. They have been meditating for decades, most are ex-monastics or currently monastics, really commited and have a great depth of knowledge.

 

It's just that the overall ratio of good/useless is rather embarrassing.

[Maddie]

5 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

Imo that's an issue, as it often results in advice that's bad for health.

 

That said, I've met some excellent teachers too, clearly they're out there as well. They have been meditating for decades, most are ex-monastics or currently monastics, really commited and have a great depth of knowledge.

 

It's just that the overall ratio of good/useless is rather embarrassing.

 

Thinking one knows what they are doing when they don't know what they are doing is a problem for a lot of things. There is a word for this that triggers a lot of people here so I won't say it but it rhymes with melusion. 

 

As a practitioner of TCM I see this a lot with herbal medicine. A lot of people think they know what they are doing when they do not know what they are doing, and this can cause a lot of problems. I think this needs to be better regulated as well. 

[Apech]

3 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Exactly! You don't ever hear about this anywhere. And then if something does come up the most common thing you're told is oh that's part of the process just push through it. Unfortunately I had to learn about this the hard way.

There’s a lot of bad teaching and misapplication of meditation out there.  Very few people even know what it is really.

Edited February 8 by Apech

[Maddie]

Just now, Apech said:

There’s a lot of bad teaching and mid application of meditation out there.  Very few people even know what it is really.

 

One of the girls that works at the front desk decided she was going to teach herself meditation recently. Yesterday I asked her how that was going and she said that she noticed a lot of anger coming up and didn't expect that since she thought meditation was about relaxing. I just said that it's not like the posters make it seem like. 

[Apech]

8 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

One of the girls that works at the front desk decided she was going to teach herself meditation recently. Yesterday I asked her how that was going and she said that she noticed a lot of anger coming up and didn't expect that since she thought meditation was about relaxing. I just said that it's not like the posters make it seem like. 

a subject that deserves its own thread

[blue eyed snake]

10 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

One of the girls that works at the front desk decided she was going to teach herself meditation recently. Yesterday I asked her how that was going and she said that she noticed a lot of anger coming up and didn't expect that since she thought meditation was about relaxing. I just said that it's not like the posters make it seem like. 

 

memory of a younger me screaming after 5 minutes of sitting pops up

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

memory of a younger me screaming after 5 minutes of sitting pops up

well done on lasting five minutes!

[Unota]

7 minutes ago, Apech said:

a subject that deserves its own thread

I'd like to see that thread. I'm curious about that too. I've never had anything happen like that, until recently, when I went to meditate and started just... uncontrollably crying. Tears just started streaming down my face out of nowhere. I think that I've been stockpiling a lot of grief, lately, haha... I felt a lot better afterwards.

[snowymountains]

34 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

One of the girls that works at the front desk decided she was going to teach herself meditation recently. Yesterday I asked her how that was going and she said that she noticed a lot of anger coming up and didn't expect that since she thought meditation was about relaxing. I just said that it's not like the posters make it seem like. 

 

It's different if it comes during or surfaces later, it's also different depending on whether someone has existing regressed anger or not.

 

But yeah this is also a topic, which is very interesting - that's as not as big a risk as raising dopamine when it shouldn't raise.

Beyond dopamine in some other cases there's risk of even death, esp in regressions, hence imo someone untrained shouldn't teach these things, because in the rare occasion when the sh.. hits the fan, if they don't know what to do, someone may die.

[Apech]

21 minutes ago, Unota said:

I'd like to see that thread. I'm curious about that too. I've never had anything happen like that, until recently, when I went to meditate and started just... uncontrollably crying. Tears just started streaming down my face out of nowhere. I think that I've been stockpiling a lot of grief, lately, haha... I felt a lot better afterwards.

what shall we call this thread?

[blue eyed snake]

29 minutes ago, Apech said:

what shall we call this thread?

 

meditation unlocking/freeing  unwanted emotions like anger and sadness

[Maddie]

51 minutes ago, Unota said:

I'd like to see that thread. I'm curious about that too. I've never had anything happen like that, until recently, when I went to meditate and started just... uncontrollably crying. Tears just started streaming down my face out of nowhere. I think that I've been stockpiling a lot of grief, lately, haha... I felt a lot better afterwards.

 

I think what a lot of people don't realize is that meditation is about knowing the mind, not sedating the mind. I think this is what surprises people when they first begin. It's also considered an advanced practice in most traditions that the majority never do. 

[Unota]

19 minutes ago, Apech said:

what shall we call this thread?

Umm...Good question. I'm the person that randomly generated my username, so I'm probably not the one to ask.

 

I imagine meditation is only relaxing if there is nothing currently 'wrong.' But if you're harboring anger or resentment about something, that will resurface. If you're harboring grief, that will resurface. And, I think I saw Maddie mention something about panic or anxiety being induced by meditation, which I would guess, probably comes from awareness of the body. It was also very hard for me to deal with this at first, when I started meditating. When you become aware of your body, you become aware of pain, of things that are wrong, things that you often can't do anything about. You may even make up in your head that things are wrong that aren't, inducing unfounded anxiety, because you don't know what things are supposed to feel like. Um, that is just my guess, though.

 

Probably something about how...processing things comes first?

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

meditation unlocking/freeing  unwanted emotions like anger and sadness

i have a problem with ‘unwanted’ as a descriptor

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Apech said:

i have a problem with ‘unwanted’ as a descriptor

 

I think its fine to call them unwanted. One can then make the fact that they are "unwanted" and object of mindfulness and obtain insight into aversion. 

[S:C]

53 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

dopamine in some other cases there's risk of even death, esp in regressions

Can you explain, please?

 

How can dopamine rise during focused awareness? And why should that (dopamine?) include the probable possibility of death?

 

Apart from that: if emotions should occur that have no base in current reality and should therefore not be disturbing - can not be justified - momentarily- what on earth is this focused awareness about? 🫣

 

Why should I want to meet and get to know my mind if it is half (?) full (or empty) of emotions - that have no base in current reality? (Does that make any sense?)

 

I‘m done with concepts. 🥱💤

Edited February 8 by S:C

[blue eyed snake]

6 minutes ago, Apech said:

i have a problem with ‘unwanted’ as a descriptor

 

right

 

had thought of negative at first 

 

but negative harbors the same problem as unwanted,

 

its a judgment 

[Apech]

6 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I think its fine to call them unwanted. One can then make the fact that they are "unwanted" and object of mindfulness and obtain insight into aversion. 

I have an old thread called ‘emotions are the path’ -

[Maddie]

7 minutes ago, S:C said:

Apart from that: if emotions should occur that have no base in current reality and should therefore not be disturbing - can not be justified - momentarily- what on earth is this about? 🫣

 

In Buddhist theory emotions that have no basis in the present moment would be Sankharas or "conditioned volitional objects" which is also the 4th Skanda or "aggregate" 

Edited February 8 by Maddie

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

I have an old thread called ‘emotions are the path’ -

 

I like that thread :-) <3

[blue eyed snake]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

I have an old thread called ‘emotions are the path’ -

 

hmmm

how about, the rising of hidden emotions when you set foot on the path

 

or something like that

 

and please bump your old thread

[blue eyed snake]

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

 

In Buddhist theory emotions that have no basis in the present moment would be Sankharas or "conditioned volitional objects" which is also the 4th Skanda. 

 

buddhism gives me the pip as it wants me to learn a totally new language full of unknown concepts.

 

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

hmmm

how about, the rising of hidden emotions when you set foot on the path

 

or something like that

 

and please bump your old thread

 

Like I just stated this is due to increased awareness of one's own Shankara's. 

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

 

Like I just stated this is due to increased awareness of one's own Shankara's. 

ohhh your sooooo Buddhist