NaturaNaturans Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) In her book by that very name, Francesca Stavrakopoulu argues that the biblical God is very much a flesh and blood human, some sort of a king-priest. Gen 18:1-2 is a good example: Quote The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day.2 Abraham looked up and saw three menstanding nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. Or Gen 1:26-27, showing that either God is man like or man is God like: Quote Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness’ Even more direct: «a likeness with the appearance of a man” (Ezekiel 1:26). Later on, editors and translates would clean up the language, making (what she claims is) straight forward physical descriptions sounds more like metaphors. «Walking with God» for example, means in her opinion, exactly what it says. Yahwe would, according to her, would be one of many in the region, and each time a city or people fell or got conquered their god would be «dethroned.» I am no expert, and i will not do her book, or the bible, any justice. She covers body part by body part in her book. 800bc, Sinai, Kuntillet Ajrud Belived to depict Yahwe, his staff and wife, the godess Ashera. https://www.amazon.com/God-Anatomy-Francesca-Stavrakopoulou/dp/0525520457 Edited December 8, 2023 by NaturaNaturans Typos and pic 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MBZ Posted December 8, 2023 Look up Paul Wallis 🙏🏻 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaturaNaturans Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, MBZ said: Look up Paul Wallis 🙏🏻 Sure. He is an author i see, anything you would like to reccomend? searched him up on YouTube, and started this: havent finished, but the point that Yahwe and NT God is not the same? Yes i would agree. Edited December 8, 2023 by NaturaNaturans Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobie Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) . Edited December 23, 2023 by Cobie 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted December 9, 2023 Is not 'God' in the OT 'extra' terrestrial ? He might have started as some type of terrestrial God but then he started appearing and giving orders from 'on high' . Even on top of a mountain .... 'cause that's probably where he just 'landed ' . " The glory of the Lord settled on Mount Sinai. For six days the cloud covered it, and on the seventh day the Lord called to Moses from inside the cloud. 17 To the Israelites, the glory of the Lord looked like a raging fire on top of the mountain. 18 Moses entered the cloud as he went up the mountain. He stayed on the mountain 40 days and 40 nights. ' Obviously a UFO airB&B . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Posted December 9, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said: Later on, editors and translates would clean up the language, That's backwards. But since you cannot read the original language... 13 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said: The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day.2 Abraham looked up and saw three menstanding nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. The Lord appeared to Abraham while he was sitting THEN... Abraham hurried away towards the 3 "men". That means the 3 "men" are not the appearance of the Lord. It's very simple if you imagine it in your mind and read the words carefully. On the other hand if you desire a physical god in a human form, you will likely ignore what's written and simply agree with whomever is validating your desire. Edited December 9, 2023 by Daniel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Posted December 9, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said: 800bc, Sinai, Kuntillet Ajrud You need to read more about this location. It is on the outskirts. A shared cultic site used by many different people with many different beliefs. It is clear that the artwork is not "pro-level". The inscriptions which you are likely reading about are also not professional inscriptions. So, you're looking at folk art. It cannot be used to correlate with scripture. Will you care? Probably not. Edited December 9, 2023 by Daniel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NaturaNaturans Posted December 15, 2023 Daniel, it is really not an attack on you or your faith, it is a (limited) summary of a book written by a very well respected academic. Can we agree on a few points, like: - judaism developed from Paganism - divinity is often used in plural form in OT - Yahwe is described quite antropromorphic at times And in regards to the piece If pottery, i do not see the problem. This would be pre judaism, and it is not exactly a wealth of archelogical evidence of the religion of the levant in this period. It is valid for you to point out that I dont understand hebrew, so much might be lost to me, but the author from Oxford has a pretty good picture of the religions of the near east in this time period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) On 12/15/2023 at 2:54 PM, NaturaNaturans said: Daniel NatrualNaturals, If you would like a reply, it would be best to tag me, or quote me. I just happened to notice this reply browsing the forum. On 12/15/2023 at 2:54 PM, NaturaNaturans said: Daniel, it is really not an attack on you or your faith It is an attempt to re-write the scripture of my faith. On 12/15/2023 at 2:54 PM, NaturaNaturans said: a very well respected academic. That doesn't mean it's true. They have theories. On 12/15/2023 at 2:54 PM, NaturaNaturans said: judaism developed from Paganism You've asked this repeatedly. Judaism is POLEMIC to paganism. I think I have given you a link to the definition to this word. The fact you will not accept the answer I've given repeatedly is bizarre. Judaism rejects paganism. It did not transition away from paganism. Judaism sharply rejected it. The common people were practicing different faiths and often assimilated in with the other religions. That is the story told in the hebrew bible. When they are doing that, they are practicing paganism. Judaism is the rejection of all of that. On 12/15/2023 at 2:54 PM, NaturaNaturans said: divinity is often used in plural form in OT You've also asked this before, and the answer is no. The word appears to have a plural suffix -IM, but all of the corresponding verbs are singular. The only time it is plural is when it is talking about other pagan gods. I recall referring you to a source to confirm this simple fact. At this point, I think you would prefer to have false information that agrees with you. At one point I would have happily spent time showing you how this works and answering all your questions about it. But, that ship has sailed. On 12/15/2023 at 2:54 PM, NaturaNaturans said: Yahwe is described quite antropromorphic at times You'd need hebrew knowledge to assess this. The english translations describe god is anthro terms. Certainly christian translators will do this to support their desire for a god of flesh. You'd also need to read the text in context and in sequence. The strongest examples are obviously and clearly poetic metaphor or in visions/dreams. On 12/15/2023 at 2:54 PM, NaturaNaturans said: the author from Oxford has a pretty good picture of the religions of the near east in this time period. they are trying to force judaism to be similar to the other religions, and so are you. there is a lot of money to be made defaming judaism. defamation of judaism is very old and very popular. Edited December 29, 2023 by Daniel 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) On 12/15/2023 at 2:54 PM, NaturaNaturans said: It is valid for you to point out that I dont understand hebrew, so much might be lost to me, but the author from Oxford... They do not know the language either, or, they are being dishonest. Linguistically the inscriptions CANNOT be referring to Asherah, the goddess. The inscriptions say 'SRT. That's it. The pronominal suffiix "T" is never-never attached to a name. The youtube "scholars" will never tell you that. Here's a list of resources on this. The top link is the best. Don't forget to read the conclusion. https://www.google.com/search?q=pronominal+suffix+asherah&oq=pronominal+suffix+asherah&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigAdIBCDc1OTJqMWo5qAIAsAIA&client=tablet-android-sprint-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#ip=1 Edited December 28, 2023 by Daniel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
