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old3bob

the spectrum of silence (& space/time)

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we often hear wonderful things about silence (pun intended) but I'd say there is a very wide spectrum to it...for instance the "unstruck sound" before Om roars into and is of creation;  thus that which is open to and part of all possibilities and manifest wonders!!

 

On the other end is more or less indescribable crushing silence, a black hole like abyss that no sound can escape from, the end of the line so to speak.  (there is an alluding to this in some spiritual teachings, including in 4th way materials but I don't remember their quote right now...

Edited by old3bob

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My own perception is that as I extend my awareness up to new subplanes, initially they are silent but progressively I develop sense organs on those frequencies and start to see, hear, smell and feel

 

 

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Found the quote:

"You know the prayer 'Holy God, Holy the firm, Holy the immortal'?  This prayer comes from ancient knowledge.  Holy God means the Absolute or All.  Holy the firm also means the Absolute or Nothing.  Holy the immortal signifies that which is between them, that is the six notes of the ray of creation, with all organic life.  All three taken together make one.  This is the co-existent and indivisible Trinity.  George Gurdjieff

 

So I'm seeing some parallel with the terms above, thus with Om as "unstruck sound" likened to the "Absolute or All", and the black hole of crushing silence likened to the  "Absolute or Nothing".

 

 

so I see a parallel across

s therms of 

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25 minutes ago, old3bob said:

Interesting concept, didn‚Äôt understand ‚Äúunstruck‚ÄĚ, had to look it up, thanks!

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Ah a little more on that...

 

A-U-M-Silence ... the ancient sound of ‚ÄúOM‚ÄĚ by David Gordon

"Seeking the unstruck sound Ancient teachings and modern science agree: you, I, all living things, all things in existence are made up at their most essential level of vibrating, pulsing energy. For millennia, mystics have recounted their experience of this energy, which is said to manifest in our hearing awareness as a humming vibration around and within everything else. In the Sanskrit tradition, this sound is called ‚ÄúAnahata Nada,‚ÄĚ the ‚ÄúUnstruck Sound.‚ÄĚ Literally, this means ‚Äúthe sound that is not made by two things striking together.‚ÄĚ The point of this particular distinction is that all ordinary audible sounds are made by at least two elements: bow and string; drum and stick; two vocal cords; two lips against the mouthpiece of the trumpet; the double reed of the oboe; waves against the shore; wind against the leaves. All sounds within our range of hearing are created by things visible or invisible, striking each other or vibrating together, creating pulsing waves of air molecules which our ears and brain interpret as sound. So, sound that is not made of two things striking together is the sound of primal energy, the sound of the universe itself. Joseph Campbell likens this unstruck vibration to the humming of an electrical transformer, or the (to our ears) unheard humming¬†of atoms and molecules. And the ancients say that the audible sound which most resembles this unstruck sound is the syllable OM. Tradition has it that this ancient mantra is composed of four elements: the first three are vocal sounds: A, U, and M. The fourth sound, unheard, is the silence which begins and ends the audible sound, the silence which surrounds it....."

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2 hours ago, old3bob said:

Holy God means the Absolute or All

 

Absolute meaning unchanging.  That  might be  a human perspective - the human unable to see enough to distinguish change

 

All is a more appropriate concept

 

Why "holy"?  Are there aspects of God that are not holy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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are there aspects that are not rhetorical?  hell, I'm just bumbling along and not a guru.

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from improv.com:

"Although 99% of musical instruction is about which notes to play, the most transformative thing you can do for your piano playing isn't about the notes at all: it's about the silence between the notes.

Let me ask you a question: When you sit down at the piano, what are you thinking about? Probably the notes, right? As well you should. Yes, we need to play notes. But equally (or maybe, more) important is the space in between the notes. Here's what Mozart said about this:

"The music is not in the notes, but in the silence between."

The guy knew what he was talking about, and just about every great musician knows this, whether they express it like that or not. Just ask Miles Davis, or Bob Dylan.

So what exactly goes on in between the notes? It's not always a literal silence, is it? Each note is usually still ringing out before the next one is played, right? But yes, something is happening that relates to silence.

You're listening to the silence.

This is part of what Mozart may have been trying to convey with this somewhat nebulous statement. It's something that every good improviser or composer knows. You write or play a note, and then where does the next one come from? The silence. But only if we're listening for it. Otherwise, our playing becomes a stream of run-on sentences that has no meaning. No subtlety. No breath.

So... the next time you sit down at the piano to play jazz, rock, pop, blues, classical, or whatever else you may enjoy playing, become aware of the silence between the notes. Listen to the silence, and see what notes appear. This is a game-changer."

 

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the threefold division occurs in a number of different realms and concepts which are related to triangulation

 

for example, the structure of atoms is derived from their particular array of protons, neutrons, and electrons

 

Quote

The law of three dictates that any result can only be attained through the marriage of three forces. The relation of these forces to each other determines the nature of the triad. If I want to recruit your help, I can force you to help me, beg you to help me, or inspire you to help me. Each represents a different triad for for achieving the same aim, and, needless to say, each will yield a different result. This was Ouspensky’s takeaway from the Finland gathering. It would lead him to reevaluate his relations to others, including his own teacher, George Gurdjieff.

https://ggurdjieff.com/law-of-three/

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On 5/4/2023 at 5:44 AM, Lairg said:

My own perception is that as I extend my awareness up to new subplanes, initially they are silent but progressively I develop sense organs on those frequencies and start to see, hear, smell and feel

 

 

 

I work with silence a lot in my personal practice and I appreciate this point you make.

Silence can always be filled with content of various kinds depending on circumstances (planes, subplanes, sense organs, conditions, intention, etc...) and yet the silence is always the "firmament" which supports and allows those frequencies to manifest and present themselves to our experience. 

No matter what arises one can always refocus on the silence. 

When we focus on the content, we limit what the potential to some degree.

When we focus on the silence, we allow ourselves to remain open and fully aware of the full and unlimited potential of what may be available, to what may be needed in any given moment. 

 

 

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What does everyone think about the relationship between silence and physical stillness? My teacher has said that stilling the body can lead to stilling the mind. In my practice I find that I follow one to the other and back again.

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2 hours ago, RobB said:

What does everyone think about the relationship between silence and physical stillness? My teacher has said that stilling the body can lead to stilling the mind. In my practice I find that I follow one to the other and back again.

 

In the tradition I follow stillness and silence are two doors leading to the same "place."

There is a third as well, spaciousness in the heart/mind.

Each door can be effective by itself or in combination with others depending on our individual circumstances, proclivities, and needs.

Once we have a taste of where these doors lead we can see that the experience has qualities of each - stillness (of the body), silence (of the speech), and spaciousness (of the heart/mind).

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3 hours ago, RobB said:

What does everyone think about the relationship between silence and physical stillness? My teacher has said that stilling the body can lead to stilling the mind. In my practice I find that I follow one to the other and back again.

 

Yes the phenomenon of "noise" and "chatter" is in direct inverse proportion to consciously sensing the body in a complete way, and it can manifest in all kinds of things, both separately and simultaneously... such as internal dialogs and discursive thoughts, or restless muscles and other types of fidgeting.  Its similar to the popular expression that "idle hands are the devil's plaything" in that it is a byproduct of a person's abdication of their responsibility for their internal energy being centered and directed holistically across the entire body in a complete sort of way.  Taoists speak of "breathing from the heels". 

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12 hours ago, steve said:

 

In the tradition I follow stillness and silence are two doors leading to the same "place."

There is a third as well, spaciousness in the heart/mind.

 

That resonates. There is a parallel between the mental and physical experience. The attention on physical stillness is a process almost of pattern recognition. I think I am still; balanced, relaxed, and then I realise that the stillness is actually a localised tension pattern. But that pattern will not resolve unless I can refocus my attention to the larger physical system within which the tense area resides. Similarly, when my mind wanders into thought, I have to broaden my attention to the space in which that thought arose. Both are about increasing some sense of spaciousness and it feels like that space is, at some level, the same space.

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28 minutes ago, RobB said:

 

Edited by RobB

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5 hours ago, RobB said:

Both are about increasing some sense of spaciousness and it feels like that space is, at some level, the same space.

 

This is an example of the beauty of using the word space as a metaphor for the ground of being. Space is all-pervasive, even when occupied the space is still there. One cannot say there are two spaces, or more, as it is continuous and unbounded. On the other hand, it is imprecise to call it one space because space is insubstantial, it cannot be defined, limited, or imputed. Space is indiscriminate, everything is allowed to arise and to release, it does not block, resist, grasp, or prefer anything in particular whether physical, mental, or energetic. 

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I'm not versed on the subjects but someone might get into 3d, 4d, quantum space/time, etc., along with other aspects of time,  since most of us assume there is only one time yet there are sayings about "time and a half", time crunch, red shift, etc..  Btw, light can not escape a black hole so what about time and space?  (can it escape?)

 

And there is that line in chapter 43 of the TTC that says, "Only Nothing can enter into no-space."

Edited by old3bob

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It may be that the English language lacks the word-concepts to reflect accurately the nature of Reality.

 

As well, the denser levels of the mental plane are not sufficiently fluid to express more subtle constructs.  

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11 hours ago, Lairg said:

It may be that the English language lacks the word-concepts to reflect accurately the nature of Reality.

 

As well, the denser levels of the mental plane are not sufficiently fluid to express more subtle constructs.  

 

agreed....and more or less the same for the limits inherent with any man made language, although pointers can help if or when we read or hear between the lines.

Edited by old3bob

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On 5/7/2023 at 12:13 PM, old3bob said:

I'm not versed on the subjects but someone might get into 3d, 4d, quantum space/time, etc., along with other aspects of time,  since most of us assume there is only one time yet there are sayings about "time and a half", time crunch, red shift, etc..  Btw, light can not escape a black hole so what about time and space?  (can it escape?)

 

And there is that line in chapter 43 of the TTC that says, "Only Nothing can enter into no-space."

 

Time changes not,

but all things change in time.

For time is the force

that holds events separate,

each in its own proper place.

Time is not in motion,

but ye move through time

as your consciousness

moves from one event to another.

 

Aye, by time yet exist, all in all,

an eternal ONE existence.

Know ye that even though in the time ye are separate,

yet still are ONE, in all times existent.

 

- Thoth the Atlantean, 1939

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