ch 3 - a totalitarian dark place?

[Cobie]

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[Cobie]

On 09/05/2022 at 12:28 AM, Daniel said:

Maybe it's all about #11: bringing order, which requires interference.

Doesn’t Daoism believe ‘nature’ is ‘naturally’ ordered? As in 道法自然 (Dao4 fa3 zi4 ran2 - Dao follows ‘nature’). 
 

… empties their minds … 

虛 亓 心  xu1 qi2 xin1 

 

And how could he possibly empty their minds … ? I am the only one with access to my mind. 

 

 

 

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[Cobie]

A Saint has reached “道法自然", he is “at one with Dao". 

Is that the same as saying a Saint has reached 虛無 (xu1 wu2 - nothingness)?

 

 

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[Cobie]

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[Cobie]

On 09/05/2022 at 9:45 AM, wandelaar said:

… See also chapter 80 …

  But don’t use the Hoff book! 
 

23 hours ago, Cobie said:

 Hoff deleted chapter 80

 

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[wandelaar]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

As far as Ch 3 is concerned, this depends on the way one translates it, 

‘as I see it’  there is no ‘legalist’ element in Ch 3. : )

 

The TTC like many other texts from the time (also) addressed the ruler, and in that context there clearly is a legalist element. That you prefer to ignore it is your own choice. However because the TTC has many meanings your interpretation is also correct. What isn't correct is elevating your interpretation to the status of the only correct interpretation. The clause "as I see it" doesn't help here because  if it were sincere you wouldn't claim that that there is no legalist element but only that you don't see it.

[Cobie]

“only that you don't see it.”

Lol, what bit of ~ as I see it ~ don’t you understand?

“The TTC … (also) addressed the ruler “

Again, that depends on the translation. 聖人 also can be translated as ‘wise and virtuous person’. 
 

~~~
聖

Kroll dictionary  includes the meanings: 
<possessing wisdom, judgement and moral excellence. a. profoundly wise and virtuous; sage(ly) > 
 

 

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[Cobie]

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[Cobie]

On 03/09/2014 at 4:39 AM, Taoist Texts said:

…

translators draw a picture of a totalitarian dark place where rulers take away the playthings from the dumb masses

…

If the rulers take away the shiny toys from the people that would be action and Lao knows better than that. 
…

其 refers not to the people …

 虛其心，實其腹，弱其志，強其骨 …

they empty their own hearts, fill their own bellies, weaken their own ambitions, sthengthen their own bones.

…

 

(my bold)

 

I agree, in Ch 3 “其 refers not to the people” , but to the 聖人.

 

 

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[Taoist Texts]

17 hours ago, Cobie said:

I hope you don’t mind me copying your words as the title for this thread, I thought they were very apt. Pls let me know if you do and I will change the title again. : )

of course not;) have fun!

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