exorcist_1699 Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) There are many differences between Daoist alchemy and TCM / Acupuncture , people who come from the Acupuncture or TCM background may already have sensed them , and be perplexed by them , so some explication seems to be necessary : 1) TCM is for healing diseases or delaying aging , Daoist alchemy is for getting rid of aging and for immortality , both physical and spiritual as they are inseparable ( the socalled Xing and Meng dual cultivation); 2) While mastering TCM requires you to know well the 14 channels and those acupuncture points on them , Daoist alchemy ,as a concentrated , simplified version of TCM , focuses only on the DU and Ren channels ; and , what you need to know are those few acupuncture points on the DU channels that will potentially make you stuck when doing the Micro-Cosmic Circulation . ( Notice that the Macro-Cosmic Circulation is not classified as your qi spreading from the DU and the Ren channels to other channels, but as your internal qi spreading outside of your body , linking it to the external energy ) 3)Different from acupuncturists who pay attention to channels and acupuncture points , the three Dantians ( low, middle and upper) , areas where qi likely arises , are what the Daoist alchemy practitioners interested in. Dantian is always first a Daoist alchemist term , then a term adopted by TCM's medical qigong . 4) To master the basics of TCM , you need to know well what the Six stages ( Tai Yang, Yang Ming, Shao Yang, Tai Yin..etc) are and the 5-element model , however, in Daoist alchemy hardly does it pay any attention to the Six stages ; what you need to know is something about the 5-element model , yet not to that extent of their intricate relations for healing , say , in order to make the son (kidney) strong, you tonify the grandfather (spleen) beforehand ; anyway, the 5-element model is under the Qi framework . Do not mix up the Chinese 5-element model with other cultures' , and claim that Wood or Metal is one of the basic elements that forms the world . No, the Chinese culture is always a qi dominated culture that most other things originate from it and be manipulated by it . 5) Formula : In order to heal ,if you are a TCM doctor, you need to write a formula that targets at those symptoms , and the formula is always composed of parts of plants , insects or minerals; if you are a acupuncturist , your formula is a group of acupuncture points that can deal with certain symptoms . However, in Daoist alchemy , your formula is the looks seemingly simple formula : Jing + Qi = Shen or Jing=> Q=> Shen . What you make use of is just your mind, breathing or body movements , or their combinations. 6) Qi's meaning in different contexts : In TCM , Qi , no matter it is the Zong Qi (" 宗氣") inside of our chest or the Wei Qi ("衛 氣" ) , qi guarded just outside of our skin surface , all is classified as yang , and our blood/ essence ( and other forms of liquid: sweat, phlegm, tears.. ) classified as yin . However, in Daoist alchemy , all qi, including those we initialize from our dantians , is classified as yin Qi because what Daoist alchemy targets at is the pre-heavenly yang Qi , and from that higher level , all the postnatal/ material things below , even in an invisible form like qi , is yin . It is that hidden pre-heavenly Qi , which has both yang and yin aspects , as a Taiji , be the source of life . So here we get two levels of things , the pre-heavenly ( not necessarily equals to prenatal ) and the post-heavenly( not necessarily equals to postnatal ) , and they both can further be divided into yin and yang , which is therefore called " 二重天地, 四個陰陽" ( " Two levels of Heaven and Earth , and four yin and yang") . Of course , it is an important concept in Daoist alchemy for it tells us the boundaries : what we can achieve within what arena ; however, hardly does TCM require it because what TCM works with are just the post-heavenly qi and blood/ essence in channels , vessels, organs and skin surface . Maybe the only term of TCM that related to the pre-heavenly level is the "Mengmen" ( literally means " Gate of Life") . Liu-I Ming's writings do talk about the Two-level concept, but not in its relation with TCM. Edited January 16, 2022 by exorcist_1699 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted January 16, 2022 內經有提到心藏神,肝藏魂,肺藏魄,脾藏意,腎藏志 特別是心藏神,這一點很多人都誤解了,以為神應該在大腦,其實心藏神講的是識神隱元神顯的元神,這個步驟,是在開心竅的過程中產生的,但是很少人能練到這裡,因為開心竅的過程中,有太多幻境了,幻境之前是光,很多人根本練不到這裡,基本上能練到氣感小周天就已經是少數人了,更別說光感,還有光感之後的幻境,還有幻境之後的識神隱元神顯。 而肝藏魂的魂,指的是日魂,烏肝,這一點知道的人也很少,因為能練到這裡的人很少,看得懂經文的人更少。 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cleansox Posted January 16, 2022 It is mentioned that the heart stores the spirit, the liver stores the soul, the lung stores the soul, the spleen stores the meaning, and the kidney stores the will Especially the hidden spirit in the heart, many people have misunderstood this point, thinking that the spirit should be in the brain. In fact, the hidden spirit in the heart is talking about the primordial spirit who knows the spirit and hides the primordial spirit. This step is produced in the process of becoming happy, but Few people can practice here, because there are too many illusions in the process of happiness , not to mention the sense of light, as well as the illusion after the sense of light, and the manifestation of the consciousness and the hidden essence after the illusion. And the soul of the liver hides the soul, which refers to the sun soul and the black liver. Very few people know this, because very few people can practice it here, and even fewer people can understand the scriptures. (If one bothers to use google translate...) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted January 17, 2022 開心竅的意思,不是『開心』happy竅,而是『開啟』open『心竅』 我也不知道英文的『心竅』專有名詞怎麼翻譯,太多專有名詞了,自己的英文程度太差,只好寫中文,不好意思啊 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted January 17, 2022 因為這個主題講的是中醫和道家修煉的關係,在『心藏神,肝藏魂,肺藏魄,脾藏意,腎藏志』的背後,還包含有情緒,喜傷心,怒傷肝,憂傷肺,思傷脾,恐傷腎,這些情緒在五臟當中會堆積起來,傷害五藏的陽氣,而在道家修煉的過程中,這些被壓抑的情緒,都會化為幻境或者情緒,重新蒸發出來。 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
exorcist_1699 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) I think Awaken and Cleansox are talking about things similar , so I would like to add : 7) TCM not only manipulates qi of organs ,say via herbs , but also manipulates emotions or characters of these organs so as to cure mental diseases; for example , disease arises from our anger (liver's emotion) with someone and our attachment to such anger can be counteract or dissolved by provoking our fear ( kidney's ) of losing something due to such an anger . On the other hand , Daoist alchemist solution to all emotional issues is simpler and straight forward for it just initializes that taiji (composed of invisible ying and yang) hidden in a place called Mengmen inbetween our kidneys , and nourishes from it an emptied Mind , then all emotional troubles is said to be solvable . It stresses that the way of our dealing with troubles and adversities in life , hardly should it be anything of an analytic mind , nor ego dignity , let alone emotions , but our Xing ( some kind of spiritual ,consolidated Oneness ) . The saying I always like to quote is : "To those who succumb to life scenarios with emotions or mental tactics , you are called the ordinary ; to those who eliminate life scenarios with your Xing , you are called the Immortals" (" 境殺心即凡, 心殺境即仙" ) It is to say that , not only qi of our body organs , but also their emotions ( maybe viewed them as split ,biased shen) , can be used as ' fuel' to cultivate our Xing . Edited January 31, 2022 by exorcist_1699 3 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indiken Posted January 21, 2022 3 hours ago, exorcist_1699 said: "To those who succumb to life scenarios with emotions or mental tactics , you are called the ordinary ; to those who eliminate those life scenarios with your Xing , you will be called the Immortal" (" 境殺心即凡, 心殺境即仙" ) Truth is the reverse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geof Nanto Posted January 21, 2022 11 hours ago, exorcist_1699 said: "To those who succumb to life scenarios with emotions or mental tactics , you are called the ordinary ; to those who eliminate those life scenarios with your Xing , you will be called the Immortal" (" 境殺心即凡, 心殺境即仙" ) It is to say that , not only qi of our body organs , but also their emotions , can be used as ' fuel' to cultivate our Xing . I like that. I’ll take this opportunity to express my appreciation for providing information on this topic and in other posts of yours that is strongly grounded in the mainstream Chinese Daoist tradition. If you care to provide it, I’m interested to learn some more about your practice background. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cleansox Posted January 23, 2022 On 2022-01-21 at 10:56 AM, exorcist_1699 said: I think Awaken and Cleansox are talking about things similar Technically, I just used Google translate on Awaken's post. On 2022-01-21 at 10:56 AM, exorcist_1699 said: It is to say that , not only qi of our body organs , but also their emotions , can be used as ' fuel' to cultivate our Xing . In a stage where ones emotions no longer are the fuel that drives the aquired mind, but reflects a deeper connection to ones core. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
exorcist_1699 Posted January 26, 2022 On 1/22/2022 at 5:56 AM, Yueya said: I like that. I’ll take this opportunity to express my appreciation for providing information on this topic and in other posts of yours that is strongly grounded in the mainstream Chinese Daoist tradition. If you care to provide it, I’m interested to learn some more about your practice background. Thanks a lot. Nothing special about my practice. In fact, I am just a guy who can read Chinese classical texts of TCM and alchemy and translate them into English. Of course ,I test all those means ,except piercing a needle, related to qi on my own body and mind . 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted January 30, 2022 On 2022/1/26 at 2:12 PM, exorcist_1699 said: Thanks a lot. Nothing special about my practice. In fact, I am just a guy who can read Chinese classical texts of TCM and alchemy and translate them into English. Of course ,I test all those means ,except piercing a needle, related to qi on my own body and mind . 那你試過傷寒論的方劑嗎? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
exorcist_1699 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) On 1/30/2022 at 6:51 PM, awaken said: 那你試過傷寒論的方劑嗎? Of course I do. In fact, some of Shang Han Lun's formulae are composed of only two or three different herbs that their meanings not so difficult to grasp. Edited January 31, 2022 by exorcist_1699 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted January 31, 2022 3 hours ago, exorcist_1699 said: Of course I do. In fact, some of Shang Han Lun's formulae are composed of only two or three different herbs that their meanings not so difficult to grasp. 那你會把傷寒論當成你的主要治療方法嗎?還是你只是試試看,平常你還是使用西藥? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
exorcist_1699 Posted February 5, 2022 On 1/31/2022 at 10:16 PM, awaken said: 那你會把傷寒論當成你的主要治療方法嗎?還是你只是試試看,平常你還是使用西藥? Qi, whatever media (needle, herbs, mind..) we use, is always the way to heal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awaken Posted February 5, 2022 3 hours ago, exorcist_1699 said: Qi, whatever media (needle, herbs, mind..) we use, is always the way to heal. 所以你有用過傷寒論裡面的方?你最常用的是哪個方呢? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites