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Nungali

'White' Mummies in 'China' .

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This first appeared in another thread posted by Apech  but I think it  deserves its own separate one .  It is a complex but interesting phase in history .

 

 

 

Just for discussion.

Edited by Nungali
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Interesting, although not nearly as sensational as the headline implies.  It's not like these bodies were found in central/Eastern China where all the major population centers have always been.

s12863-015-0237-5-1.gif

No, they were found in Gumugou, in the far NW corner of China by the Kunlun and Tianshan mountains.  Now if these bodies had been found maybe just ~300 miles further west in ME/central Asian countries/US military targets like Afghanistan...where there are still people who look like this:

220px-Sharbat_Gula.jpgimages?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWjhOmjE3VTrOl9Z1t8Yp

main-qimg-ac3f859c828238ae16176328e49f68

original.jpg

main-qimg-cafe2a221de64aa1769a9808b1cd80

main-qimg-4848b24d7b57c87aba301e42c7af5d

main-qimg-28f9c2b09791973502772b5eaf5ce0

Then there wouldn't be nearly as much "cognitive dissonance" in people.

Edited by gendao
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22 hours ago, Nungali said:

This first appeared in another thread posted by Apech  but I think it  deserves its own separate one .  It is a complex but interesting phase in history .

 

 

 

Just for discussion.

 

My first question is , when these people lived in Tarim Basin , was that China then ?

 

1200px-GobiTaklamakanMap.jpg

 

Ingress into that area seems more obvious from the west .

 

57f010929d568.jpg

 

NeolithicChinaMap.jpg

 

 

Chinese records know of these people  'from the western region '  , but was that ' China'  back then -  where 'barbarians' living in the western region or  was there a region to the west that was 'barbarian ' country ?

 

I am wondering if  the northern people ( 'Tocharian'  A) came into the area, as vid shows ,  with an Andronovo origin - 'IE Steppe People'   and the southern settlement came in via 'Bactria' / Pamirs -  'Iranian speakers' .

 

Stories (myths, scripture, etc ) tell of a very old culture in Pamirs .

 

[My contention is it has passed into human memory as Airyana Vaeja  (meaning and old remembered 'Homelend', before their descendants moved west into Margiana / south Central Asia,  which eventually became their Urheimat homeland -  'Yaz' , now accepted  as the area of the Pishdadian Era  / Iranian mythology .

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaz_culture

 

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/legendary/index.htm   ]

 

If we follow up into the NE of the Oxus tributaries, they penetrate into Pamirs and further provide alternative eastern route from Pamirs into south Tarim Basin  - the main route in from the west .

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9529874,71.9121029,572857m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

What could have happened is longer ago than presently realised , people moved from 'Iran' into south Central Asia, Oasis hopped, via Margiana over to the Oxus, then went up the tributaries  into Pamirs (and north)  where they established their settlements, then onto the SW Tarim Basin where the same 'Oasis hopping' along the south edge of a desert was possible ... and perhaps even better .  *

Climate may have been way better  warmer and less dry as well  ( the Avesta describes an ancient climate change - cold and that means more snow and ice and less rain ) .

 

Climate change drove movement back westwards out the high mountains back into Oxus Valley / Margiana  and eventually to Yaz (by now the 'Iranians' had  strong influence from northern IE, (who have said to have 'run' BMAC at its final stages, before movement into India) . This 'record'  (from myth and scripture) ends at the end of the Yaz period - it breaks off and doesnt start again. But they seemed to know of far away lands to the west ( their ancient and unremembered home ) ,  and north of the Zargos and up to near Turkey.  They emerged in history around the times of Assyrians  as  'Pasa'   (origins of Persians)  from the  Zargos down into eastern Mesopotamia.  ( And then went back east and claimed their old  areas as eastern satrapies of Achaemenid Empire )

 

The movement of  Andronovo people into North Tarim is probably represented by the upper right arrow

 

400px-IE_expansion.png

 

 

 [  Aside ;   are not 'Caucasians' still living in that area of Western China ?   

 

main-qimg-4b9b0510f16de495dae6ff853ce7b4

 

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-an-ethnic-group-in-Western-China-that-is-mostly-Caucasian    ]

 

Interesting to note the ephedra included in burials  , the vid relates it to Soma ; some people think ephedra is soma , apparently a draught  is easily purchased today in Tajikistan markets  and that is made from ephedra

 

 

Edited by Nungali

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  "  "cognitive dissonance" in people ", Eh ?

 

20 hours ago, gendao said:

Interesting, although not nearly as sensational as the headline implies.  It's not like these bodies were found in central/Eastern China where all the major population centers have always been.

s12863-015-0237-5-1.gif

 

I agree with the words , but why  then did you choose a map that shows ingress of Chinese into that area ???   :huh:

 

In any case, the  reason that there are huge and diverse Caucasian ethnic groups in western China is that area was never China in the first place .

 

Quote

No, they were found in Gumugou, in the far NW corner of China by the Kunlun and Tianshan mountains.  Now if these bodies had been found maybe just ~300 miles further west in ME/central Asian countries/US military targets like Afghanistan...where there are still people who look like this:

220px-Sharbat_Gula.jpgimages?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWjhOmjE3VTrOl9Z1t8Yp

main-qimg-ac3f859c828238ae16176328e49f68

original.jpg

main-qimg-cafe2a221de64aa1769a9808b1cd80

main-qimg-4848b24d7b57c87aba301e42c7af5d

main-qimg-28f9c2b09791973502772b5eaf5ce0

Then there wouldn't be nearly as much "cognitive dissonance" in people.

 

'Interesting' selections you made to represent those people   :D 

 

Not sure of your point , since Caucasians   live and  lived  much further east , much closer to China

 

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-an-ethnic-group-in-Western-China-that-is-mostly-Caucasian

 

 

 

Edited by Nungali

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3 hours ago, Nungali said:

I agree with the words , but why  then did you choose a map that shows ingress of Chinese into that area ???   :huh:

 

In any case, the  reason that there are huge and diverse Caucasian ethnic groups in western China is that area was never China in the first place .

 

Not sure of your point , since Caucasians   live and  lived  much further east , much closer to China

 

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-an-ethnic-group-in-Western-China-that-is-mostly-Caucasian

It was taken from this article:

Quote

"The dominant haplogroup," they write, "in the Xiaohe people was the East Eurasian lineage C" which corresponds with a likely origin in South Siberia. But there were also "two West Eurasian mtDNA haplogroups H and K." In looking more closely at the lineages and mutations, however, Li and colleagues noted that several of the samples had mutations that are either rare in modern people or are not found in modern gene banks. They further analyzed Y chromosome haplogroups to attempt to identify major branches of the male line. But all seven males in the study belonged to a haplogroup that is widely distributed throughout Eurasia.
"Considering the presence of haplogroups H and K in the Xiaohe people and the geographical distribution of shared sequences, we conclude that the west Eurasian component observed in the Xiaohe people originated from western Europe, and maternal ancestry of the Xiaohe people might have close relationships with western Europeans,"

The arrows might simply signify the "direction" of the Silk Road (as labeled in the map)...not migration?

 

And China as a nation (or any national boundaries) is irrelevant with regards to genetic groupings.  Nationality and "ethnicity" are entirely independent.

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16 hours ago, gendao said:

It was taken from this article:

The arrows might simply signify the "direction" of the Silk Road (as labeled in the map)...not migration?

 

And China as a nation (or any national boundaries) is irrelevant with regards to genetic groupings.  Nationality and "ethnicity" are entirely independent.

 

 

  Wot ?

 

China exported silk to BMAC   2000 BC ?  

 

^_^

 

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6 hours ago, Nungali said:

  Wot ?

 

China exported silk to BMAC   2000 BC ?  

 

^_^

I dunno, I didn't draw the map, dude...  Nor are ancient migrations remotely my specialty.

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No, but you posted  it ,  and I was wondering why THAT one , out of all the maps you could have used . The info on it seems misleading  .

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I suppose it was just the first map thaat came up on one of your google searches, thats why .

 

Anyway ,  I have the paper that comes with it  now , so I will read it myself,  perhaps that explains why the map has 'silk route' written on it .

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