Wutang Sword

[Buddy]

[wudangspirit]

Buddy,

 

Sorry, had to laugh at that guy. Definitely not a Wudang sword form.

Wudang is known for it's swordsmanship and it's powerful yet graceful movements.

This guy's form has neither. Anyway just my 2 cents worth.

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Wudangspirit

 

[Buddy]

Uh... this is Li Chinglin's form. Li (the God Sword) taught Yang Chenfu. This is from the line of Wu Mengxia. Perhaps you could back up your statement.

[wudangspirit]

Well... for someone to call it a Wudang form it needs to be done correctly...according to principles and foundation.

 

I come from the direct line of Wudang disciples. There are only 15 generations thus far and those sword forms are passed down from generation to generation.

 

My point was that the form that guy was doing is not done correctly. It violates principles of internal work. He's not smooth, very jerky and his transitions are not done correctly. Not to mention he has no root in his foundation.

 

Oh..btw I am also an international wushu kung fu federation internal arts judge and I've seen many championship forms and masters perform and I have also performed on the international level and won the world championship against some of china's top competitors.

 

Hope that help clarify.

 

Tao Bless

 

Wudangspirit

 

Uh... this is Li Chinglin's form. Li (the God Sword) taught Yang Chenfu. This is from the line of Wu Mengxia. Perhaps you could back up your statement.

[Buddy]

Perhaps you are talking about jianshu from Wudang Shan. This is not from Wudang Shan. But General Li is perhaps the most famous swordsman in Chinese history. Perhaps you can post something you think is better.

[wudangspirit]

Buddy,

 

You can go to www.wudangdao.com and see how traditional wudang sword is performed. I didn't mean to be bashing anyone on my ealier comment or mean to be egotistical. I just know what Wudang sword looks like and I just don't want anyone to get the wrong impression of my lineage.

 

Thanks,

 

Wudangspirit

 

Uh... this is Li Chinglin's form. Li (the God Sword) taught Yang Chenfu. This is from the line of Wu Mengxia. Perhaps you could back up your statement.

[Buddy]

As I suspected, it's a different lineage. This is yours?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4...h&plindex=4

[wudangspirit]

Correct. That is my Taoist brother Zhong Xue Chao doing that form. He lives in the US now.

 

I wasn't really questioning the form itself from that youtube video, just how it was performed.

 

There is a lot of information out there on Wudang and Wudangshan. Yes, General Li was one of the most revered swordsman of his time.

 

I repect other lineages and forms. Just as I also teach Wudang and Yang Styles however, the forms need to be done correctly and follow internal principles whatever lineage or style a person comes from.

 

Agree?

 

Wudangspirit

 

As I suspected, it's a different lineage. This is yours?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4...h&plindex=4

[steve]

I thought the guy demonstrated excellent technical merit but what is it about these flexible, toy swords? I don't get that. Is it a modern wu shu thing?

[wudangspirit]

Yeh,

 

I'm not in favor of those "toy" swords either. Traditional straight swords have flexibility to them however they aren't tin foil. hahhahaah.

 

I thought the guy demonstrated excellent technical merit but what is it about these flexible, toy swords? I don't get that. Is it a modern wu shu thing?

[Buddy]

Check out Scott Rodell's scholarly sword site:

http://forums.swordforum.com/index.php

 

BTW let me ask you this. What does it mean on your site when it says taiji, bagua, xingyi, and baji, are "original wutang martial arts?"

[wudangspirit]

Buddy,

 

That is Zhong Xu Chao's website however, what he means is that those schools are the originals ones taught at Wudangshan. Doesn't mean they all originated there.

 

Thanks for the link. I'm checking that out now

 

Check out Scott Rodell's scholarly sword site:

http://forums.swordforum.com/index.php

 

BTW let me ask you this. What does it mean on your site when it says taiji, bagua, xingyi, and baji, are "original wutang martial arts?"

[Buddy]

I was under the impression Wutang had it's own indigenous martial arts, before the neijia were introduced.

[wudangspirit]

Well that holds true for Qigong and the original Zhang Sanfeng Taiji.

 

Also there is forms that are Wudang originals like Xuan Wu Chuan, Baxian Sword and Form, Fangbian Shovel,

Tai Yi Wuxingquan and others.

 

Good point.

 

I was under the impression Wutang had it's own indigenous martial arts, before the neijia were introduced.

[Buddy]

My teacher has been working on a gigantic opus on baguazhang for several years. Perhaps one day it will come out.

[wudangspirit]

That would be great! Who's your teacher?

 

 

 

My teacher has been working on a gigantic opus on baguazhang for several years. Perhaps one day it will come out.

[Buddy]

Xiantian:

 

Houtian:

[wudangspirit]

Cool form. I like that.

 

Xiantian:

 

Houtian:

[steve]

Any interest in discussing Wudang lineages and martial training further?

 

From my limited reading and discussions with my sifu it seems that there was considerable disruption in the early to mid 20th century such that most existing schools are re-creations or reconstructions rather than uninterrupted transmissions. Furthermore, most of the Wudang martial forms I see on the web have definite suggestions of modern wushu influence. Finally, the evidence that the three major internal arts were practiced on Wudang mountain before the modern area is also controversial and mostly popularized by Western writers and more recently, the Chinese government for tourism and neo-nationalism purposes. These are not assertions I'm making, just information I've been exposed to and I'd like to hear all perspectives that I can.

No disrespect or offense intended - I'm just interested in learning what I can.

Thanks,

Steve

[Buddy]

I think he implied that the neijia styles came later. Certainly they did. Taiji, Xingyi, and Bagua were popularized in the Beijing/Tianjin area.

[wudangspirit]

Steve,

 

To assume that what you see in the open is nationalized or modernized forms from Wudang is correct to a certain extent. The schools there are promoting just like Shaolin very commercial now. However, the Temple school still carries on the traditional teachings behind close doors.

 

There are two types of schools at Wudang...actually three. One is the traditional Taoist Temple School which you have to be in the Taoist school to learn. The other are the popular schools springing up from the demonstration team members...(perfomrance art mostly, some good stuff) and others who say they are disciples in the city part of Wudang who are scammers making money.

 

This is very unfortunate for most martial arts in China now. There are not many "real" gong fu schools anymore.

 

Wudangspirit

 

Any interest in discussing Wudang lineages and martial training further?

 

From my limited reading and discussions with my sifu it seems that there was considerable disruption in the early to mid 20th century such that most existing schools are re-creations or reconstructions rather than uninterrupted transmissions. Furthermore, most of the Wudang martial forms I see on the web have definite suggestions of modern wushu influence. Finally, the evidence that the three major internal arts were practiced on Wudang mountain before the modern area is also controversial and mostly popularized by Western writers and more recently, the Chinese government for tourism and neo-nationalism purposes. These are not assertions I'm making, just information I've been exposed to and I'd like to hear all perspectives that I can.

No disrespect or offense intended - I'm just interested in learning what I can.

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

Steve,

 

Another note is that the traditional teachings of Wudang are based on immortality and longevity. We practice these as a part of our daily routine combined with meditation and qigong to cultivate ourselves in order to reach immortality. This is the foundation for internal practice. Those other "broken" lineages or recreations do not focus on that. That is the difference and you won't see completed forms from that tradition. For instance, the Zhang Sanfeng 13 Original Posture Taiji...

 

If you see that on youtube or another place by a Wudang master... he will leave out parts of it and stop the form short.

 

My lineage uncle Master Zhong Yun Long, demonstrates it on youtube (not to his knowledge may I add) but he leaves out sections on purpose.

 

Wudangspirit

 

Any interest in discussing Wudang lineages and martial training further?

 

From my limited reading and discussions with my sifu it seems that there was considerable disruption in the early to mid 20th century such that most existing schools are re-creations or reconstructions rather than uninterrupted transmissions. Furthermore, most of the Wudang martial forms I see on the web have definite suggestions of modern wushu influence. Finally, the evidence that the three major internal arts were practiced on Wudang mountain before the modern area is also controversial and mostly popularized by Western writers and more recently, the Chinese government for tourism and neo-nationalism purposes. These are not assertions I'm making, just information I've been exposed to and I'd like to hear all perspectives that I can.

No disrespect or offense intended - I'm just interested in learning what I can.

Thanks,

Steve

[steve]

 

Another note is that the traditional teachings of Wudang are based on immortality and longevity. We practice these as a part of our daily routine combined with meditation and qigong to cultivate ourselves in order to reach immortality. This is the foundation for internal practice.

Thanks very much for your reply.

I practice Dao cultivation of the Kun Lun Xian Zong (崑崙仙蹤)sect (not to be confused with the Kunlun method that is popular on this forum lately).

I look forward to hearing your input on the forum.

Best,

Steve

[wudangspirit]

Ah from Qinghai-Tibet?

 

The fairyland of the Taoists.

 

Love to hear more about it.

 

Wudangspirit

 

Thanks very much for your reply.

I practice Dao cultivation of the Kun Lun Xian Zong (崑崙仙蹤)sect (not to be confused with the Kunlun method that is popular on this forum lately).

I look forward to hearing your input on the forum.

Best,

Steve