rideforever Posted July 12, 2018 Type 1 : Emptiness of Unconscious Beings Being part of the flux of the elements, there is not much there. (except a very small potential seed that few can see) Type 2 : Emptiness of Conscious Beings (empty of the ego) When Consciousness takes root it uproots the identification with ego, and one can reach a stage of silence, emptiness. Empty of what ? Empty of the noisy ego, a mercy indeed. However, it is not empty, it is filled with an individuated part of the whole. Dependent Origination This is a Buddhist analysis of the non-existence of a being. But which being ? The fool at the beginning of the path ? Or the buddha who has walked the long road and transformed himself ? Different beings, one who has taken a long and difficult journey. Buddhists do not specify which being they are analysing because they don't know the difference, after all their explanations still few reach. Purpose .... comes from understand that one is to take a journey and everything that is here and should be here. Individuation Some say they are everything; but strangely do not wield the force of "everything". They cannot fix or create anything, in fact their power is that of a monkey, even an energetically supercharged monkey. Therefore they are not "everything". They are individuated, and that is the point really, that is what existence is doing, and that is why we say "I", it is an individuated identity given to us. We have one life. If we wish for more, we much return home. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 12, 2018 Your Buddhist attachments shine well. But then we are in "General Discussions", aren't we? Yes, when we say "I" we are in fact reifying our self. And therefore our life as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ion Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) consciousness (according to the Buddhist definition) when analyzed by dependent origination is dependent on "ego", there fore ego can not uproot consciousness. nothing is Is individuated; an existant is characterized by what it is dependent on, and it's being is characterized by what it is dependent on. Without its dependencies it could not be being or have characterizations; its being and characterization are dependent. since its characterization is dependent on the coming together of causative factors, and the being of that characterization is dependent on the playing out of those causative factors it can not be called individuated/self/I. since the causative factors are not the being or existence of the thing(perceived form or phenomenon) itself, but are only conditions of it, he characterization and being can not be called the characterization or being of any of the causative factors either. A crashing wave is born when the conditions of water, energy vector, and reef all come together and meet; those are the causative factors of a crashing wave. each condition is equally causative in the characterization and being of any thing. The wave is characterized by the shape of te reef, the depth of the water and the speed and direction of the vector of energy. if the vector comes from the north west, west, or south west the crashing wave will bare that characterization in its size and form, and in its being and duration. If the reef is long or short it will be seen in the characterization of the crashing wave, and in its being and duration. If the water is deep or shallow this will be seen in the characterization, being and duration of the crashing wave. everything about the wave is dependent on the causative factors; no reef, no crashing wave. no vector, no crashing wave. no water no crashing wave. so a things characteristics, it's characterization and the being of those characteristics and characterization are not it's own nor of it But the characteristics, the characterization and the being of those are not products, possessions, or characteristics of the causative factors either. water will not produce a crashing wave; without conditioning water rests in stillness. waves are not produced by a reef; crashing waves do not come from or out of a reef. wind by itself does not bare the characteristics called a crashing wave. Wind is incapable of producing a wave all by itself. So they are all equally causitive, but none of them can cause. Nothing is born out of anything. nothing is individuated or can be. nothing has its own characteristics or being, so nothing can be said to have "individuated" if a fire is said to have individuated from its causative factors (fuel, air, & heat), than one could remove the fuel without affecting the characterization and being of the fire. The fire could be cut off from air, or rage with flames without any heat. but fire does not come from wood, fire does not come from air, nor is it produced or come from heat. if none of the conditions are capable of producing the fire than the fires characterization and being can not be said to belong to the conditions. so it doesn't belong to itself, or another. nothing is self or in possession of or has its very own characteristics, and the characteristics do not belong to any other thing or non-thing . if nothing is in individualized self, than nothing else could also be another self; if there are no selves, so there are no others. Edited July 12, 2018 by ion 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) On 7/12/2018 at 4:43 AM, rideforever said: Type 1 : Emptiness of Unconscious Beings Being part of the flux of the elements, there is not much there. (except a veryh small potential seed that few can see) Type 2 : Emptiness of Conscious Beings (empty of the ego) When Consciousness takes root it uproots the identification with ego, and one can reach a stage of silence, emptiness. Empty of what ? Empty of the noisy ego, a mercy indeed. However, it is not empty, it is filled with an individuated part of the whole. My definition of emptiness is different from both of these... I've also tried to define it to people, and its extremely hard to describe or convey... More of a feeling or realization of something more "primordial" than silence, ego etc. That's all I have for now... I'm not much help... Edited July 15, 2018 by Fa Xin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rideforever Posted July 15, 2018 5 hours ago, Fa Xin said: My definition of emptiness is different from both of these... I've also tried to define it to people, and its extremely hard to describe or convey... More of a feeling or realization of something more "primordial" than silence, ego etc. That's all I have for now... I'm not much help... Emptiness ordinarily means the realisation of pure consciousness at the back of the head, hence the halo is at the back. Pure consciousness is the impersonal realisation that can be awakened and made permanent. If you are absorbed in the state then you will not interact with the thinking process, and will have the feeling of stability and stillness that comes from the dimension of consciousness ... it is empty of the 10,000 things of this world, the mind and so on. As you deepen your relationship you comprehend that this is your identity, meaning I AM. As the state bears fruit a sense of identity arises once again from this state and you can act from the state, you are that state. If someone cannot identify his new identity then he remains in a kind of inbetween state which he may call emptiness, because he cannot identify his new identity. Once consciousness is present other states may be felt because the new stability allows for exploration of the inner world and so people may report many things that relate to other awakened states ... the heart for instance. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, rideforever said: Emptiness ordinarily means the realisation of pure consciousness at the back of the head, hence the halo is at the back. Pure consciousness is the impersonal realisation that can be awakened and made permanent. If you are absorbed in the state then you will not interact with the thinking process, and will have the feeling of stability and stillness that comes from the dimension of consciousness ... it is empty of the 10,000 things of this world, the mind and so on. As you deepen your relationship you comprehend that this is your identity, meaning I AM. As the state bears fruit a sense of identity arises once again from this state and you can act from the state, you are that state. If someone cannot identify his new identity then he remains in a kind of inbetween state which he may call emptiness, because he cannot identify his new identity. Once consciousness is present other states may be felt because the new stability allows for exploration of the inner world and so people may report many things that relate to other awakened states ... the heart for instance. It’s an interesting way of looking at it. 😊 Edited July 15, 2018 by Fa Xin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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