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Eight forces / trigrams in cultivation

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5 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

I must warn you though

 

Hello. 
Like I said the practice is correct and results in samadhi of the Dantien (downwards) which is Taoist immortality,.
His reasoning is not as important as the correctly intuited practice.

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4 minutes ago, rideforever said:

the practice is correct 

I didn't say it was incorrect, I said that from my point of view it is incomplete. 

 

I'm not familiar with samadhi of the Dantien. 

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On 26. 12. 2018 at 2:42 PM, Mudfoot said:

Sounds interesting, so I just ordered it. 

 

Me too, lol ... B)

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22 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

I didn't say it was incorrect, I said that from my point of view it is incomplete. 

I'm not familiar with samadhi of the Dantien. 

 

Hey Mudfoot, just been reading your closed off 8 Trigrams thread.  Yup, is all I can say ... so wanted to post this there but it's here:

 

If we are to take these elemental forces seriously and our reversion to the origin, then let's take seriously and not F around.   For instance, if the 5 Elements are downstream of the Source, 0-1-2(5)-3-10,000 ... or 0-1-2-3-5-10,000 depending on your views.  

 

So you want to go to 0, and you are in the 10,000 .... so how ?   

Well first you get to the 5, and merge/embody the 5, so you become the 5 ... then you go 5 > 3 > 2 > 1 > 0.   

Or 5 > 0 if its possible.

That is an actual Im-not-just-turning-up plan of action.   

So when you do the 5 Animals you must become the 5 Animals, that's step 1.   You are not doing 5 Animals you must become 5 Animals, meaning you must awaken the 5 Animals within you ... that layer of Real Identity.

 

With regards that Wuji book, i just happen to be able to validate the practice, it is a correct practice.   I know it to be correct from a 2nd independent methodoloy, which is pretty cool and so rare it almost jump off the page into my face, took me 10 seconds to validate it the moment I saw it.

... as for his work with the Hexagram, you say it's not correct .... okay but it seems to have given the correct result

... also very important is he shows to go from Hexagram ... to using the Hexagram for your own purposes - deconstruction ... and then mapping to the body systems .... and then mapping to practice technique ....


> frankly that is so unbelievably rare that you should buy that book simply for that .... this is guy who is not joking <

... thoughts for the day ...

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With regards the 27 Hexagrams :
I think it's just too much.   It's like there are actually 12-20 Animals in Xingyi, it's too much impractical, 5 is better, and if we are to return to 0 then who cares, better to start closer up the pipe to the source, 5 is do-able.   In other words start the climb higher up the mountain.
Also it could indicate the Static-Dynamic nature of things, 2 poles are static, the flow is dynamic therefore the Hexagram visually shows the structure of the 2 poles ... therefore the Bagua visually corresponds to the nature of the things in question.   If you put 27 on a page you are static-izing those that are dynamic which is not a good representation of reality.
The dynamism between the poles is hidden in the picture in the same way as it is hidden in life.

?

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Posted (edited)

2(5) - 3

 

Yin-Yang (Higher resolutions as 5 Elements)  > The Dynamic Product of Yin/Yang is Yuan

 

Therefore if I understand correctly 5 Elements are pre-Yuan and do not include the Dynamic Yin-Yang creativity

 

1-2

 

Yin-Yang is a way of writing 1.   There is no Yin without Yang ever.   The basic property of existing is Purusha/Prakritia or Chalice/Blade or Lingam/Base or Substance/Creativity or Basecamp/Exploration.   It is 1 thing with 2 faces.   

 

0

 

When Prakriti is in samadhi (absorbed/merged) with Purusha it i a singularity 0.

But it is only ever part of a Being or temporary or would be oblation and fruitless.
Samadhi is the making permanent of this state in part of the Being.

 

-> To Practice

 

First one must unite downstream by realising the 5 Elements.   Practically speaking this requires a great deal of work as a human being is a chaos so purification/integration/maturation all required as well as contact with a being who contains part of the lightstream and transmits it to you, otherwise you will remain in the false corruption dream of most humans and will never step foot outside.

 

Then after the 5 Elements one must Awaken progressively further up the stream, from 5 > 2 > 1 > 0, and embody.

 

I have practiced the HT 5 Animals Qigong for 3 years almost daily but I cannot say if it is a good vehicle for merging with the 5 Animals, in the HT it seems not to be done correctly.   HT seems to wish to create unusual downstream unions and energy generation of new exciting energies of many sorts but they seem not to be working towards the Source in my opinion.   I have recently discontinued the HT 5 Animals, although perhaps a sensitive understanding of it could turn it into a real practice .... possibly.   If you work 5 Animals through Emotions for instance you are actually not working through correct centre, you would be working through the Heart, rather than the Dantien so that is defacto disaster because the Bagua relates to energetic manifestation in the Dantien and is reachable through the Dantien.
Heart awakening is of a different ilk.

 

So 5 Animals practice, though you might start with emotions or animal movements, should move rapidly to pure energetic movement done from the Dantien and be more like taichi or silk reeling.

 

Edited by rideforever

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1 hour ago, rideforever said:

 

Hey Mudfoot, just been reading your closed off 8 Trigrams thread.  Yup, is all I can say ... 

So many versions you probably do not want to explore. 

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

 

So you want to go to 0, and you are in the 10,000 .... so how ?   

 

From the course to the subtle. 

Which includes moving beyond the trigrams to the empty space in the middle. 

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

... as for his work with the Hexagram, you say it's not correct .... 

Beeep! 

 

That is the second time in this thread that you make statements not supported by my posts. 

 

"And they overuse hexagrams in their model, which adds interesting theory but sort of messes with the practical model." 

 

For example, they have to use Heaven twice. And fails to see the difference between Di and Tu, IF I interpret the model correct. Big if.... 

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1 hour ago, rideforever said:

 

 

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

not working through correct centre, you would be working through the Heart, rather than the Dantien so that is defacto disaster because the Bagua relates to energetic manifestation in the Dantien and is reachable through the Dantien. 

Here your model really differs from mine. 

 

Can you write more about this please? 

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17 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

Here your model really differs from mine. 

 

Bagua is Chinese coming from the land were the Dantien is the centre of priority for awakening, hence the expertise on the development on Dantien and energies of the Dantien that have been discovered historically in China; and the Bagua and IChing etc... relate to that centre.
Hence in the TTC, there is a flavour of being the energy undercurrent and not valuing anything above the Dantien, heart love and intelligence all dismissed, Taoists live from the belly.

This is very different from India, the land of Consciousness in the head, or Christianity where the priority is the heart.
Hence when working with the principles mentioned early one must work from the centre of energy, Dantien in the belly.

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Ok, now I see what you mean. 

 

43 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Hence when working with the principles mentioned early one must work from the centre of energy, Dantien in the belly.

And here I would disagree. Not that you can do it, but that you must. The LDT is one of many centers you can work with, and in this context, from my point of view, only one center of many. 

 

Look in the book again, the focus of the mind is not on the LDT but higher up. If you do not take the stance that any area in the lower belly will count as the LDT (some do), then you have a different approach than the method we are currently discussing. 

 

Again, to clarify, I do not criticize working with the LDT, I just feel (both from the method described in the book and from Shaolin Nei Jing Yi Zhi Chan) that working with the trigrams are not limited to the LDT, as a matter of fact I could not work with them in that way. 

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