Eastern vs western teaching methods and information overload.

[Oneironaut]

When it comes to teaching, learning, education and cultivating skills why are westerners more obsessed with endless data and theories? It appears as if westerners take simple subjects and overcomplicate it. Because of that we may also be more prone to information overload and not truly becoming skillful at whatever it is we wish to learn. 

 

Take mathematics for example: In places such as Singapore, Taiwan & Japan their math books are significantly smaller and actually TEACH the material in ways that is so much more effective that it's inconceivable here in the west. I would know because I was born and raised in the western hemisphere and I have rigorously looked through the education curriculum (in mathematics) in the countries I've mentioned and I was blown away at how logical their way of learning maths is. Here in the west our math books are stupidly large, heavy, unnecessarily complicated and loaded with so much useless junk. It's not sensible and neither is it very practical.

 

Another example I can think of is conscious dreaming. In the western methods we're so reliant on psychological approaches that are extremely unnatural and burns your mental energy. We have to make a conscious and deliberate effort to "force" mindfulness and give unnecessary attention and energy to yourself and the environment whereas in the Eastern practice your skill naturally becomes attuned with the concept of wu wei. In the Eastern methods you naturally dive into the actual practice and develop skill. Westerners are obsessed with gathering scientific data, formulating theories and their "skill set" is heavily reliant on forcing mindful awareness. Does it work? Sometimes it does. Is it consistent? No. Would I recommend it if you wanted to develop the skill? Probably not. Dynamic dreaming (also known as lucid dreaming) is all about skill. Not about how much you know. I'm sure it's exactly the same with developing mindful awareness. 

 

I also see this western trend among the folks at healing tao (and this is one big reason why I abandoned it). Mantak Chia and his crew take these energy practices and try to make them encyclopedic. If you look through his books you'll probably find that you need the equivalent of a Ph.D in their system. When I attempted healing tao I was suffering from so much information overload that I decided to call it quits. If you look at a system like reiki the same thing happens. The western version of reiki is made unnecessarily complicated and tainted with new age garbage while the original Japanese teachings are simple yet supremely effective. At the same time I really don't think it's possible to make chi/ki practices scientific as science does not (and probably never will) recognize these energies and also ki/chi is very complex and unpredictable. That's an entirely different argument altogether though. 

 

Is this something that others have been noticing as well? I'm certain it's not just me. 

 

I appreciate scientific data, theory and analysis. I'm not anti-science. I just don't think endless data and theory should degrade the cultivation of true knowledge (which comes from first hand experience) and skill (which comes from actual practice out in the field). I find myself obsessed exactly with gathering more and more of what I'm complaining about and at the same time I don't see my skill set growing all that much. Is it just me suffering from this? Can you guys help me break free of the obsession of overloading my brain with too much information and having my cultivation of skill suffer as a result? This has been going on for years now. 

 

Also, this universe is virtually endless. We can be here gathering scientific data, analyzing, developing theories (which can also be later disproven or made even more complex by conflicting theories) and discovering an infinite amount of information within these exact same discoveries. This is a surefire way to drive yourself insane and become proficient at nothing. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by Oneironaut

[Everything]

When it comes to teaching, learning, education and cultivating skills why are westerners more obsessed with endless data and theories? It appears as if westerners take simple subjects and overcomplicate it. Because of that we may also be more prone to information overload and not truly becoming skillful at whatever it is we wish to learn.

 

Take mathematics for example: In places such as Singapore, Taiwan & Japan their math books are significantly smaller and actually TEACH the material in ways that is so much more effective that it's inconceivable here in the west. I would know because I was born and raised in the western hemisphere and I have rigorously looked through the education curriculum (in mathematics) in the countries I've mentioned and I was blown away at how logical their way of learning maths is. Here in the west our math books are stupidly large, heavy, unnecessarily complicated and loaded with so much useless junk. It's not sensible and neither is it very practical.

 

Another example I can think of is conscious dreaming. In the western methods we're so reliant on psychological approaches that are extremely unnatural and burns your mental energy. We have to make a conscious and deliberate effort to "force" mindfulness and give unnecessary attention and energy to yourself and the environment whereas in the Eastern practice your skill naturally becomes attuned with the concept of wu wei. In the Eastern methods you naturally dive into the actual practice and develop skill. Westerners are obsessed with gathering scientific data, formulating theories and their "skill set" is heavily reliant on forcing mindful awareness. Does it work? Sometimes it does. Is it consistent? No. Would I recommend it if you wanted to develop the skill? Probably not. Dynamic dreaming (also known as lucid dreaming) is all about skill. Not about how much you know. I'm sure it's exactly the same with developing mindful awareness.

 

I also see this western trend among the folks at healing tao (and this is one big reason why I abandoned it). Mantak Chia and his crew take these energy practices and try to make them encyclopedic. If you look through his books you'll probably find that you need the equivalent of a Ph.D in their system. When I attempted healing tao I was suffering from so much information overload that I decided to call it quits. If you look at a system like reiki the same thing happens. The western version of reiki is made unnecessarily complicated and tainted with new age garbage while the original Japanese teachings are simple yet supremely effective. At the same time I really don't think it's possible to make chi/ki practices scientific as science does not (and probably never will) recognize these energies and also ki/chi is very complex and unpredictable. That's an entirely different argument altogether though.

 

Is this something that others have been noticing as well? I'm certain it's not just me.

 

I appreciate scientific data, theory and analysis. I'm not anti-science. I just don't think endless data and theory should degrade the cultivation of true knowledge (which comes from first hand experience) and skill (which comes from actual practice out in the field). I find myself obsessed exactly with gathering more and more of what I'm complaining about and at the same time I don't see my skill set growing all that much. Is it just me suffering from this? Can you guys help me break free of the obsession of overloading my brain with too much information and having my cultivation of skill suffer as a result? This has been going on for years now.

 

Also, this universe is virtually endless. We can be here gathering scientific data, analyzing, developing theories (which can also be later disproven or made even more complex by conflicting theories) and discovering an infinite amount of information within these exact same discoveries. This is a surefire way to drive yourself insane and become proficient at nothing.

Just start at the basics and keep playing with it. Keep hitting it if it is solid. Try to shake it around. Make sure your basics are solid. It will be able to carry allot of complexity for you if you just let it be the perfect basics. And master those basics. You'll be developing at airplane speed. Oops I lied there. This is probably gonna cost me another war. I don't like war. So I take another sip of my glas of water and feel it sooth my fear. We're in a meeting that's all about how not war we want. It gets really depressing out here. So I decided to jump out of the window and fly. Sure I passed another airplane. He didn't collide. Well ok he did. But he only crashed after I passed him. It wasn't my fault. Another meeting all about how nothing is my fault? Heck no!

 

I still don't want war tho. Can we make peace? I know it sounds gay to make peace. But I promise you it's nothing like that. *holding a contract behind my back* "What you gonna use that for?" "Oh nothing it's a contract for the devil all about how I agree to allow more freedom of gay expression in my country."

 

I know I also don't like those gay clubs at night. But we don't have to make war man! Come on we can be buddies. We can make peace man. Just sign this contract here please. Yes. Thank you.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Everything

[ilumairen]

Someone else called it paralysis by analysis.

[Fate]

Yes I've noticed it, you can talk around the Tao for ages and divide something an infinite number of times and label all the things.

I also notice all the people that just practice, just do, and don't post. But you can't see them if you're looking with your eyes or mind.

 

There will always exist all the variants, just ignore the noise.

[Oneironaut]

Someone else called it paralysis by analysis.

 

Would that be a result of WAY TOO MUCH left brained thinking as well?

[ilumairen]

Would that be a result of WAY TOO MUCH left brained thinking as well?

 

Probably... I just recall an old friend sharing this experience with me, and me suggesting a chili cheese dog.

[Oneironaut]

Probably... I just recall an old friend sharing this experience with me, and me suggesting a chili cheese dog.

 

And some fries and a soft drink to go with that. 

[Jetsun]

The Chinese president is visiting the UK at the moment and there is a lot of discussion around whether we should adopt a more Chinese model for education and Chinese work ethic. What I found interesting is that the Chinese Ambassador said that both nations can learn off each other as the Chinese obviously work harder, but the UK has far more creativity, which is reflected in things like patents for inventions, fashion, music and cultural exports. A lot of Chinese goods are copies and rip offs of others ideas and creativity. So I wouldn't say its as clear cut as Westerners being completely scientific and formulaic. 

[johndoe2012]

As for overload there is a tendency for faster, bigger, better all the time.

 

Maybe the constant electromagnetic magnetic interference from electronics has something to do with it. Then brain is basically bombarded with noise all the time and can't calm down.

 

That's why people go on retreat, into the mountains etc.

 

Westerners also are obsessed with competition and changes in education are done all the time for some random reason, probably egoic. So maybe we are getting dumber in some ways.

 

I like to talk to my Chinese friends but they suffer from biases too. So China is definetely not perfect.

[Oneironaut]

The Chinese president is visiting the UK at the moment and there is a lot of discussion around whether we should adopt a more Chinese model for education and Chinese work ethic. What I found interesting is that the Chinese Ambassador said that both nations can learn off each other as the Chinese obviously work harder, but the UK has far more creativity, which is reflected in things like patents for inventions, fashion, music and cultural exports. A lot of Chinese goods are copies and rip offs of others ideas and creativity. So I wouldn't say its as clear cut as Westerners being completely scientific and formulaic. 

 

I think it's the governmental structures in China that frowns on out of the box thinking and this reflects within their society. If China and other cultures in the sinosphere were to adopt a more western model we'd see more creativity and out of the box thinking among them. 

Edited October 20, 2015 by Oneironaut