Assessing a Sickness called "My Life"

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

 

 

deci belle, on 12 January 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

I'll tell you this, unless you are ready to watch this world from afar even as you grapple with it intimately, longing will only get you a deferred sentence which you are presently living out in this breath, unawares.

Try to stop comparing self and others. They have never existed. This is a bad habit you ought to drop before you take another breath or think another thought.

 

Longing will only accomplish imprisoning you in this world. Enlightened or not, there is no escape. Either you are aware of it or not. Your nature is causeless. Why are you giving cause to continued illusory existence?

 

Detaching from appearances is not a method, it is inconceivable strategy. If your will to enlightenment is weak, you will succumb to your self-generated illusory existence and drag your family along with it. Forget the excuses. Your obstacles are self-generated. Drop them.

 

 

obstacles are self generated, jsut as much as goals are, no doubt? So do i drop my objectives, or do i drop my obstacles? HOW do i know them apart? Are my goals the source of the obstacles as well, thus i must forget wanting or pursuing and just "be" content with "being"?

 

What say my goal of starting a family and raising them right, giving them the proper examples and teaching them the subtle truths of our reality as tehy are known to me... what obstacle am i creating?

 

In this day and age, the goal itself IS the obstacle. or more specifically, the people who populate the world are quite impairing in success.

 

 

 

 

Nothing has ever been gained or lost by complete perfect enlightenment. Why fear that dropping your selfish habitual attachments to your relationship with karmic existence will somehow harm your spiritual refinement? Changing your orientation with the conditioned flow of karmic evolution will simply free you from further karmic evolution. Will that be easier than going along with it? Is it easier to be awake or asleep? How do you know? When did you find out?

 

Null point, i still want a family; enlightened or not, evolved or not

 

 

The fact is you don't know. Is your plan to wait for the easiest method to bump into you and wonder what Jesus would do?

i wonder what would Rodney do?

 

Wake up! Purity and detachment are a raft to the other side. Once you reach the other side you just jump into the deep end and forget the raft. There is no safety. There is no easy way. Detach from appearances as you adapt to conditions in everyday ordinary situations using objective awareness gained by forgetting emotional consciousness.

 

I don't envy you. I had to do it, that's why I know. Good luck with that, hydrogen.❤

 

Actually it's the easiest thing in the world when you have no choice~ and that's what it comes down to.

 

 

 

 

ed note: add last line

 

 

 

 

I havent watched any good bond movies in a while, so when you brought up "Dr. No" earlier in the thread, i've been jonsing... I BLAME YOU!

 

Havent watched that one all the way through yet. i dont even remember where i left off.... did a bond marathon years ago, before the release of "tomorrow never dies" or the world is not enough.... whichever one is the newer one... LOL

 

 

 

 

aajhhh..... anyways, it took till i started reading that last "quoted off" section that you were talking to hydrogen more exclusively.... i wasted a lot of cyber breath, but im posting it anyways, since i went through all the trouble and all... n_n

 

 

Edited January 16, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[deci belle]

obstacles are self generated, jsut as much as goals are, no doubt? So do i drop my objectives, or do i drop my obstacles? HOW do i know them apart? Are my goals the source of the obstacles as well, thus i must forget wanting or pursuing and just "be" content with "being"?

Actually a good point. You can actually control the degree of obstruction the situation can handle in terms of following desires.

 

Turn it on or dial it back. It's up to you.

 

Obstacle are most definitely self-generated~ just by being present. There are no innocent bystanders. There are also no survivors.

 

If you can be content with the inherent goodness of just being and enter a situation intuitively in its muddy stages (you stir it up just by being at first) and watch the situation clarify itself, then you can be apart of the organism. But there is no telling what will evolve. It's a matter of trusting your luck.

 

Sages start "work" in the incipience of a situation and wait. The 3rd hexagram talks about the difficulties. Also consult Chuang Tzu's "The True Men" for insight into those who may have plans and desires to carry out.

 

Nothing beats not having ideas. Selfish motives however altruistic they may be will never qualify as spontaneous.

 

That's why enlightening activity is adapting to conditions as they evolve within the natural timing of creation's trends. Meeting the needs of the times is the way to incur the least amount of obstruction. "Perfection is easy easy for those with no preferences".

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

"those with no preferences" is definitely not the group i am in, i guess... Finding contentedness is quite obstructed indeed, when i cannot figure out how to let go of desires... "preference"... For temporary periods, sure... i could "simply be" without want, but it doesnt last long... and comes with no compensation, nothing to "make up for" anything... and once i've stopped, i am right back where i started!


Then i ask, why did i even start, if only to gain nothing from it?

I've spent times and times just letting life pass me by, but i have yet to learn how to grasp life and stop it from forgetting all about me.


The obstacle isnt that i DO desire, is it? Cuz i do not know how to stop. if it is possible for me to stop.

[deci belle]

Actually the desire for family and such is very much about fear of being forgotten, or a bit more subtle is the fear of missing out on something. This is ego generated neurosis and it is directly connected to the conventional method of immortality.

 

Spiritual refinement also follows desires but instead of external sex to create an infant, adepts join the primordial energies within themselves and create a spiritual immortal.

 

Same quest, elevated means.

 

Desire is a wonder. Craving is the gremlin that destroys natural reality. It's source is called the human mentality.

 

Dismiss the human mentality and contentment is all that's left. But its roots are manifold and they keep coming back.

 

There is a way to cut it off at the tap-root. It's called self-refinement. All that is required is unbending intent.❤

 

 

 

ed note: typo in 2nd paragraph

Edited January 16, 2013 by deci belle

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

my unbending intent to perfect my pursuits is all i have...


In my pursuit of perfection, my pursuits have evolved over time... from popularity as a child in school, to "correctness" regardless of popularity (or actually knowing "correctness" for that matter), to being attractive to the opposite sex (and thereby popular), to having sex (and thereby being popular/successful), to understanding "other people", which led into wanting to have children, as both a part of understanding people in general, as well as part of having pliable minds to mold... not to mold them, but to not mold them, to allow them to see the truths the world has to offer without any "learned filters".


As i thought more and more about how valuable young lives are, i stopped wanting on their behalf...
I stopped wanting "better for them", i stopped wanting to "give them a proper upbringing", i stopped thinking i knew better, that i had the answers and had to give them to my children...

That i still want to be one to bring them into this world, that i still want to be one to care for them, that i still want to teach them, that i still want my own flesh adn blood children, my own family, should not automatically disqualify me from living the life i seek!!!

If desire itself disqualified me, then i should want to be alive so that i can be disqualified from being alive... it makes no sense!!


If i am disallowed to raise my family, then by association i am automatically disqualified from the SO CALLED "elevated same quest" for i will not. Prerequisites might not be mine to define, but they are also an obstacle of this equation:

If i am not meant to have family, but meant to raise a family in spirit, then i have already failed for without my own flesh-and-blood family, i am wholly unwilling to participate in a "spiritual family" alternative.
Thus i am permanently disqualified from "success" in life...


well, according to my understanding of your words anyways... i dont agtee with them, but if they are a true explination as to why i am so unsatisfied by my life, they are also an obstacle preceeding my desires.

[Jeff]

Nothing in life is a better teacher than being a parent. The key is to "learn" the wonderful & loving lessons.

 

Regards, Jeff

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Well, at least sum bums now know how I fell when I try to read Dogen!

 

Oh, dear…

 

Self-reflection clouds natural impersonal awareness in terms of an objective reality of ordinary situations.

 

It is possible to assess situations and respond spontaneously to the very conditions dictated by temporal affairs by cultivating the habit of non-interference. It is not a matter of imaginary separateness, but rather resting readily in the perspective of nonspeculative nonavoidance. Neither avoiding nor defining the inevitable nor speculating on outcomes is close.

 

At first it is a ploy to gain detachment from internal and external bedevilments in order to save energy, but eventually it becomes the strategy to take over creation and steal potential. Further still, it is the means by which enlightening beings carry out tasks and fulfill accomplishments in secret.

 

It just comes back to using the world for self-refinement instead of self-gratification. In terms of self-refinement we develop the habit of not seeing situations as arenas for speculation. When we have nothing potentially invested, we develop autonomy— which is more evolved than raw sensual detachment of the lower vehicles of formative moralities of renunciation.

 

When we refuse to invest ourselves in terms of potential, we gain that potential— it is unsaid. The rule is not using what is seen; and using what is not seen. Not using is not having attachment, however subtle, to objects, situations or outcomes; using is in not-using potential. We see potential by not speculating on inert temporal manifestations; we steal it by seeing it. It is the way it is for no reason. No one knows why.

 

So by not speculating on temporal manifestations and by not deciding what potential is naturally inherent in any given situation, and refusing to entertain intellectual ramifications, we absorb potential just by virtue of seeing— this how to use it.

 

When we then relegate potential to nonpsychological awareness, we don't even say what it could possibly be to ourselves. That is what seals it away. No one knows that or what we strategically aren't knowing. All that those who steal potential know, is that potential is not inevitability …yet, and in terms of inconceivability, to the degree we absorb potential in the course of ordinary everyday affairs, we enter the mystery. Just responding to affairs without speculation on outcomes is selfless adaption.

 

Ok, so it's crazy; but that is the secret to taking over creation, stealing potential, and seeing through phenomena without negating appearances. It all depends on selfless awareness. That is, our habitual perception is gradually influenced to have no habitual, reflexive connection to gratifying or avoiding sensually speculative concerns.

 

By sensual, I mean anything perceivable by any avenue of perception— this isn't just a matter of sex, drugs, money, power, personal or professional influence or cravings of any sort. It is much more subtle, and pervasive. It is the means by which to transcend one's conditioned awareness of self-illusion and enter the inconceivable mystery of the Way by seeing your nature.

 

This is turning the light of awareness around to shine on its source. This is direct activation of enlightening being in the midst of ordinary affairs unbeknownst to anyone. When we don't use ordinary conditioned awareness to follow ordinary conditioned affairs, then the light of awareness is turned around automatically with no effort involved at all.

 

So the mention of Assessing the Sickness of My Life means nothing~ just forget it and everything will be ok (in more ways than one). haha!!❤

 

methinks it sinks in! yes! its sinking! in! sinking in! i am understanding it i am... no wait... no... no, no, it was just gas... i think? i cant tell anymore

[LCH]

As someone who does not post very often, I did feel compelled to chime in on this discussion. I can certainly empathise with what is being shared by all participants in this discussion.

 

In my experience, I have recognized that in order to get my "ego" on my side, I have to give it the attention it requires and deserves. After all, it is only doing its "job" for me. Looking upon it like some sort of virally infected operating system only equates to self-fracturing, and without said operating system, putting these "pieces" of "self" back together can prove to be a very difficult process.

 

The Tao is "in" me, and I am "in" it.

 

In fact, I feel without a strong "ego" one cannot dare take the first step to true introspection. When someone pulls back the sheet of the mess they may have made of themselves, it certainly helps to have an empowering aspect to help cope with the scene. Talking about "enlightenment" is a sure-fire way to creating a limiting aspect of one's experience. It has never been a destination to me. I often marvel at those people who seem to do everything with emotional balance and simplicity. People who wouldn't know what "Tao" was if the TTC smacked them right in the face.

 

I recognize that my attraction to Taoism is simply because I have a healthy set of neuroses that I am looking to get under control. I have had "Experiences" that far surpassed the "supposed tos" in life, and thus, I set to differentiating between them. But perhaps, the "supposed tos" are simply the result of self-judgement, which, if not done with care and compassion for self can drive one deeper and further into the pits of "despair". Sitting in meditation and engaging the "secrets" of the Universe can offer a doorway to infinity or will light the way on the path to escapism and separation. All viable and, dare I say, "healthy" facets of the journey.

 

Humanity is now going through the very same process that many are going through individually. This simple microcosm/macrocosm relationship is easily observed to one's mind, but actually DOING something about it is the only ticket (that I have found) to the "salvation" that many yearn for.

 

Carl Jung introduced an amazing body of work into this reality in dealing with the "shadow-self". True intrgration of both the "yin and yang" is seemingly the only way to transcend this reality such to become completely "autonomous" and "functional". Once my mind got a tast of autonomy, it couldn't go back. Like Neo in the Matrix or Dom in Inception.

 

Tasting true "freedom" consciously is a sure fire way to issue yourself a ticket into the depths of The Shadowlands at some point in the future. This "freedom" represents to our minds everything that seeimingly the "temporal" reality is not. It is in these experiences through the personal "void" where one can find that inner spark to light the way to transcendence, or where one can continually and aimlessly wander in the shadows, clinging to the ever fading memory of some sort of "divine" presence.

 

I have experienced this "place" many times in my life, and I am extremely grateful for every experience I have had.

 

Ultimately, like deci belle, said (paraphrase) being truly selfless is the ticket. Getting "there" can be done in an infinite # or ways, and when some actually does get "there", who other than yourself will be there to let you know you have arrived?

 

Much love to all.

 

Lad

[Friend]

Edited March 29, 2013 by Friend

[deci belle]

Those who glibly claim to have "no practice" and conceitedly trumpet simply living as "my life" are sadly deluded.

This is because following random activity and calling that spontaneity, may be accomplishing "no practice", but this has no affinity with the function of observing mind arriving at cessation of random consciousness.

This is because "my life" at this point is not yet one's own, independent of conditioned existence.

Until ignorant individuals arrive at the will to enlightenment and struggle deliberately to turn their lives around by turning the light of their own consciousness around, go in reverse, and finally arrive at the origin of Complete Reality, will they discover for themselves that "my life" has no power in or outside of karmic evolution until it is blown away forever by realizing their nature void of self.

Until practice reaches the realm of unattributability there is no automomy because until one is finally and continuously aware of nonorigination, one cannot transcend being bound by the conditioned self constituting the karmic matrix going through its inexorable cycles of yin and yang.

Obviously, it is only when these individuals reach their serial impasses do they endeavor to deploy their defiant "my life" proclamations. This would be the very antithesis of the selflessly autonomous adaption of enlightening being in everyday ordinary situations unbeknownst to anyone which is the middle way whereby neither absolute nor mundanity stand.

True effective practice is arrival at the subsequently permanent activation of turning the light around to illuminate its source and have that source void of self or other identify one's life. Those who fall back to the refuge of "my life" when it suits them are proving their ultimate ignorance of the source of spontaneity and their partnership as coeval with creation— and not subject to it.

This is then where phenomena is empty and characteristics have their variables. Enlightening being is governed by random karmic activity in that selfless response has no set categories, only relying on the timing of heaven, the situations of earth, and the phantoms of self and other in concert as the creatively evolving karmic matrix alternates cyclically.

Arrival transcends the puny morality of "my life" in that one sees through phenomena without denying their characteristics. You see through your life without denying its characteristics as well. Therefore one does not go along with conditions but subtly stands apart by not harboring ulterior motives in speculation on outcomes or for one's ego-securities, only adapting impersonally by assessing objectively in the midst of changes.

The primal and temporal are originally not two. This is not beyond the function of enlightening being seeing through "my life". Complete Reality is one's function in terms of unity of absolute and conditional in one breath. Otherwise, what would be the point of seeing your nature? It is just to enable one to activate the real in ordinary situations unbeknownst to anyone. If anyone knew, it wouldn't be real~ nor would it be natural.

"Nevertheless, it is necessary to wind up at the point where 'heaven is open, earth is broad, and all things are just as they are,' for only this can be considered attainment."

 

 

ed note: just re-introducing the thread topic❤

Edited February 19, 2013 by deci belle

[LCH]

Deci,

 

Perhaps you can share some of your experiences with this process you describe?

[deci belle]

hi mr LCH❤

 

Certainly~ how about picking a point from your above post that you would like to relate in terms of my experiences with this process.

 

Or, if you would care to be more specific, and somehow see to applying your question to some aspect of your own life-situation, please feel free to PM me.

 

bonjour!

[hydrogen]

 

Nothing has ever been gained or lost by complete perfect enlightenment.

:

:

Is your plan to wait for the easiest method to bump into you and wonder what Jesus would do?

 

 

Thank you very much for constantly nudging me going forward (or backward to be exact).

 

I never wondered what Jesus would do because I don't want to live his life. So far my life is more enjoyable than his.

 

You were right about me not having a choice. I remember that I tried to use dreams to escape, they sent a monister to scare me. Those bastards would even allow me sweet dreams.

 

Are you sure there is no perks for being awaken and going forward? I don't think so, otherwise what's the point of being enlightened? When I play video game, I am always rewarded for being at higher level of game.

[LCH]

Are you sure there is no perks for being awaken and going forward? I don't think so, otherwise what's the point of being enlightened? When I play video game, I am always rewarded for being at higher level of game.

 

 

This is an interesting comment, H. Care to elaborate? I have pondered similar logic at times so I am curious to hear more from you.

[hydrogen]

This is an interesting comment, H. Care to elaborate? I have pondered similar logic at times so I am curious to hear more from you.

 

Everyone has different idea about "who am I", especially when one is awaken. At least everyone seems to agree that the world is not "real" as it used to be.

 

My model, just a model to help me understand the world and plan my actions, is that the wole world is a simulation game, and I am an "A.I" to be trained how to be a real human. The main reason that I came up with this model is that I love my kids and parents, I don't want to be "enlightened" while leave them behind.

 

All the "real" human (I have no idea what a real human is. But I've been brought up as a real human. Then what I know about real human must be true) have parents. If my parents are not "real" then I can never be real either. I don't care how others design their world, in my world I'd have my parents, my kids, my brother and everyone I love and everyone they love.

 

I don't think I'm trained to be "god". If so, I'd be "born" as "god" and raised as "god".

 

All my human training has a theme "reward good, punish bad". I don't think the creator of the game is a sadist prick to change the rule when you're awaken. The trick part is to figure out what's good and what's bad.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i only see persons and personhood, the only sin is to trespass against free will, and there is no person who is without free will.


But it is okay, because over an eternity, all is eventually forgiven.



So when you step on the grass or crave some bacon; be sure that you forgive yourself, too, for trespassing against their own free will to grow and thrive uninhibited.

[LCH]

Thanks for sharing, H. :-)

[hydrogen]

 

So when you step on the grass or crave some bacon; be sure that you forgive yourself, too, for trespassing against their own free will to grow and thrive uninhibited.

 

Thanks. Remind me that I should thank the lawn maintenance guy for the soft grass and thank farmer and butcher for the delicious bacon. Too much is not good for my health though. I tried the trurkey bacon a few times. They were not as good as the real one.

[deci belle]

Hydrogen said:

Are you sure there is no perks for being awaken and going forward? I don't think so, otherwise what's the point of being enlightened?

 

The point of awakening to one's nature is simply the means to stabilize inherent impersonal nonpsychological awareness in the forefront of one's ordinary consciousness. The perk is manifold.

 

First, even though nothing is gained by complete, perfect enlightenment, one is freed of the karmic compulsion to act. That saves an inconceivable amount of energy.

 

Second, there is no forward to speak of as you sit at the incipience of complete reality. Pristine awareness is uncreated, Beyond before and after, already at the cusp of going into action in perpetuity. You are utter innocence itself, unbegotten.

 

There is no coming or going. Awake without dwelling on appearances is the day-job of enlightening beings. They adapt to conditions impersonally, are coeval with creation in terms of potential and are not subject to karmic cycles of creation.

 

As one's dharma eye is open, there are endless transformations whereby evolution is in terms of the celestial, by virtue of the temporal. Since one sees through objects of awareness, one can respond without confusion in order to help oneself and others without involving habit energy. One uses the temporal to clarify conscious development. One simply does not go along with Creation. One secretly operates in reverse going against the flow of the ordinary worldly self-reflective function.